GF2-I: Quests old and new [Spoilers]

[alhoon]

I would like to discuss some quests, some old, some new. 

 

 

Question 1: 

I have met Zensital, the young Shaper rebuffed by Lying Zackary the Deceiver and every enemy of Zackary (except Barzahl) is my friend.

He seems the Awakened type BUT I am considering that perhaps I should direct him towards the Takers. Hear me out: He is moderate but very pro-creation. The Takers need more people like him. Of course, if Takers were talking to Shapers, they would be Awakened and there's a very good chance they will refuse Zensital or kill him but I see in his quest "Multiple locations", which makes me think that perhaps it is possible to send him to the Takers. 

 

Is there a time limit for this quest? Or Zensital will remain there till I discuss with him where to go? 

[Mechalibur]

There's no time limit. Until you tell him what he should do with his life, he'll go from town to town as you direct him. More spoilery notes:

 

Spoiler

The reward you get depends on the final town he makes it to regardless of what you tell him to do. He refuses to join the Awakened if he makes it all the way to Zhass Uss. The Takers are not kind to him.

 

[alhoon]

Prip the Servant mind in the mines and the Pylons. Apparently, I think I could turn on the Pylons; I confused Prip. But I do not want the mines to work! I want the Awakened to crush the Shapers like bugs and the Servants* along with them (which is what a Taker would say not an Awakened, I see that, I see that...). 

But "story-wise" my character is not anti-Shaper yet. So, going out of my way to NOT fix a glaring problem when my character is not aware there is an entire populated valley 

Is it possible to fix and then sabotage the mine? Is the reward worthy enough for me to do it? Reputation is a kind of reward for me.  

 

*As long as I am not the one killing the Serviles that look at you with big eyes and ask you to save them, like the Servants in the mines. Obviously I saved those. The Drakons can kill them or convert them later. 

Edited March 31 by alhoon

[Mechalibur]

No, there's no way to sabotage the mines. There isn't really even much reason to - the people actually doing the mining are the commons (you can see the miners by the mine entrance early in the game), so it's not really a pro-servile move to disrupt them. Drypeak also isn't an economic powerhouse that threatens the Awakened and even the Takers are fine with you completely ignoring Drypeak since they're basically a non-issue. Only Barzahl really wants you to take out Zakary and the loyalists.

[alhoon]

3 minutes ago, Mechalibur said:

No, there's no way to sabotage the mines. There isn't really even much reason to - the people actually doing the mining are the commons (you can see the miners by the mine entrance early in the game), so it's not really a pro-servile move to disrupt them. Drypeak also isn't an economic powerhouse that threatens the Awakened and even the Takers are fine with you completely ignoring Drypeak since they're basically a non-issue. Only Barzahl really wants you to take out Zakary and the loyalists.

 

Was that like that in the original? I remember the Awakened ignoring Drypeak, but I think the Takers wanted Lying Zakary the Deceiver dead. Or it could have been me. Not sure. I will kill him. Perhaps I will do it before the end game, but I will kill him. I am not leaving the valley with that guy alive. Yes, I know the Shapers also kill him. But I want my cold eyes to be the last thing Lying Zakary the Deceiver sees as he departs this world. 

The other guy I will certainly kill is the guy that will kill Shanti. I will play along with Barzhal's little games till I can kill that guy. 

Edited March 31 by alhoon

[Mechalibur]

Takers require you to kill one leader to join them. It can be Zakary, but Pinner and Barzahl also work. It's basically just a loyalty test that you aren't event expected to succeed at. Pretty sure it was the same in the original.

[alhoon]

There's ... a book of Shaping thahds in the rooms of Keeper Thossila, who is a common. She also mentions spells to heal serviles (I don't see any such book and I would like more healing) and healing falls under Shaping although perhaps Shapers don't consider it so. 

What happened? 

[Mechalibur]

28 minutes ago, alhoon said:

There's ... a book of Shaping thahds in the rooms of Keeper Thossila, who is a common. She also mentions spells to heal serviles (I don't see any such book and I would like more healing) and healing falls under Shaping although perhaps Shapers don't consider it so. 

What happened? 

 

It was changed from a different spell in development. Jeff is aware and will correct it next patch.

[alhoon]

Wait, will I lose my 1 dot in of create thahd? 

[Mechalibur]

The issue is the dialogue, the skill (create thahd) is accurate. 

[alhoon]

For something Zackary told me is impossible (regaining control of Rogues), there are pretty many rogues you can take control of. Rogues that are not actively attacking you, you can control so far (Pre-Tunnel areas). By control I don't mean "take with you" like the abandoned Thahd, but exert your will and bend the Creation to your will. 

Edited April 5 by alhoon

[alhoon]

Roamertooth band: 

Gives +1 missiles and +1 quick action. 

 

Do missiles bonus increases the damage done by magic crystals? If not, does spellcraft increases the damage done by crystals? 

[Mechalibur]

Nothing increases item effectiveness, to my knowledge. That's why I'm pretty liberal with stuff like icy crystals and fiery wands in the early game - they have no scaling.

[alhoon]

So... Drayks are barred again and fighting for their life. 

 

Was that dude there in the Original? I don't remember a vast cavern full to the brim with treasure you could not touch. 

Is there a way to deal with the Cryodrayk at level 6 and take his toys? I quite valiantly avoided the toughest spectres outside. 

If I go in combat mode and steal all of his things, would I manage to lam it? Does he go out of his way to chase you? 

 

 

EDIT: I changed my mind after reading his story and forcing him to turn over his crystal using My awesome Shaperness to completely break his will, taking the one thing that gives him the most comfort like a cruel monster, which reminded me why I am going Tak- I mean Awakened. And reminded me lying Zackary the Deceiver's words that it is impossible to take control over a rogue Creation. And I did it to a cryodrayk. I was sure I was a goner when I clicked that, I just wanted to see his reaction. And I found out that I could humble a proud creature that the Shapers turned their backs on.

If I ever take his crystals, I will end his existence which is a greater mercy than leaving a half-mad (well, totally mad) creation of that power without its comfort blanket. 

 

Do I need that 1000-worth crystal for an artifact? That's the only way I am going to take that from this poor creation. 

If you go Taker can you send Wyx to the Takers? He seems their type. They will bond, I am sure. 

 

EDIT 2: I find it harder to resist going all out Taker in this version. Perhaps it is because I played Mutagen first where the Takers had very convincing arguments (although they were horrible to the other Serviles). 

On the other hand, I can manage to find it within myself to sabotage the worse of the Takers but not to destroy the Magus complex and set back the Awakened, shatter them. But man, I do want to go out and start killing Shapers... 

Edited April 6 by alhoon

[Mechalibur]

Yes, possibly but not recommended, you'd probably die, yes, yes, no

Edited April 6 by Mechalibur

[alhoon]

Ehh... I am not sure I follow the yes, yes, no parts. 

What is the "no" for? Takers? 

[Mechalibur]

Your litany of questions was liable to cause my keyboard to break, so I answered in the most expedient method possible. Anyway, it seems like it's fine now, so to more specifically answer your question,

[alhoon]

LoL Emily!!!! 😄🤣

She trusts... Shanti. She really thinks Shanti, an agent, would not execute her without blinking. Man, poor Emily, she has so much to learn. 

[alhoon]

The game is pushing me more towards the Takers... 

Was Learned Pinner always so... pacifist and subservient? I have met other awakened (Blade Loyd for example) that understand what it will take to be free, to co-exist with Shapers. 

When I go to Medhab I am blasted day in and day out from messages that inform me that my character is keenly aware that the Shaper council would destroy that peaceful town, where kids play, crops are raised and serviles barter with dignity to the ground for the crime of existing. Turn it to dust and eradicate any mention of it. 

And what Learned Pinner tells my character? "You may carry news to your kind about us and they will come and purge us. So, I must convince you that we have a right to live."

?!? 

Pinner thinks she has to convince an apprentice (well Shanti has declared I am not an apprentice anymore) of a town's right to exist. She is practically begging for their right to exist. 

 

Somebody has to crack some Shaper heads and Pinner seems very reluctant to do so. I kinda remember she was hiding things and their true power, creating a weak, non-threatening front. I hope she does. Although a dozen Reaper turrets outside doesn't exactly send the message "We are at the mercy of the Shapers". 

No, from what I recall from the previous time, Pinner was too... defensive. And that came down to the rest of the Awakened too. They were too defensive, too passive. You don't win a war by not losing the war. That leads to a stalemate. All the Shapers have to do, is to keep the rebellion secret from the Common and the Serviles at large and dedicate some of their forces to keep the awakened contained. 

 

EDIT: "We can only gain peace by appealing to the mercy of the Shapers". Riiiiiight. 

Even the text says that Pinner is naive; this is the result of growing up without meeting Shapers. 

She goes out of her way to say that the Takers and the Barzites offer more power, but the Awakened is a fight for Justice. I agree. But what about Justice for the crimes the Shapers committed on the Serviles? 

Don't worry, Pinner. I will avenge your brothers and sisters that died in Sucia. THEN we can discuss with the Shapers. 

 

I decided to join the Awakened, but I am not happy about the leadership, just so you know. 

 

 

Edited April 6 by alhoon

[alhoon]

QUESTION:

If I auto-join the Awakened, will the Barzites and the Takers be auto-hostile to me, or just angry? 

[oceanes]

Pretty sure the Barzites don't attack, but they also won't sell to you mostly. Haven't gotten to the Takers yet. (As per my Awakened save file)

[ultra112]

23 hours ago, alhoon said:

LoL Emily!!!! 😄🤣

She trusts... Shanti. She really thinks Shanti, an agent, would not execute her without blinking. Man, poor Emily, she has so much to learn. 

In my factionless run I told her to escape the wilderness.

[alhoon]

9 minutes ago, ultra112 said:

In my factionless run I told her to escape the wilderness.

I have not told her to escape yet. I want to help her. The story of her parents is there since there's a quest. I also want to see what happened to her. 

[Mechalibur]

3 hours ago, alhoon said:

The game is pushing me more towards the Takers... 

Was Learned Pinner always so... pacifist and subservient? I have met other awakened (Blade Loyd for example) that understand what it will take to be free, to co-exist with Shapers. 

When I go to Medhab I am blasted day in and day out from messages that inform me that my character is keenly aware that the Shaper council would destroy that peaceful town, where kids play, crops are raised and serviles barter with dignity to the ground for the crime of existing. Turn it to dust and eradicate any mention of it. 

And what Learned Pinner tells my character? "You may carry news to your kind about us and they will come and purge us. So, I must convince you that we have a right to live."

?!? 

Pinner thinks she has to convince an apprentice (well Shanti has declared I am not an apprentice anymore) of a town's right to exist. She is practically begging for their right to exist. 

 

Somebody has to crack some Shaper heads and Pinner seems very reluctant to do so. I kinda remember she was hiding things and their true power, creating a weak, non-threatening front. I hope she does. Although a dozen Reaper turrets outside doesn't exactly send the message "We are at the mercy of the Shapers". 

No, from what I recall from the previous time, Pinner was too... defensive. And that came down to the rest of the Awakened too. They were too defensive, too passive. You don't win a war by not losing the war. That leads to a stalemate. All the Shapers have to do, is to keep the rebellion secret from the Common and the Serviles at large and dedicate some of their forces to keep the awakened contained. 

 

EDIT: "We can only gain peace by appealing to the mercy of the Shapers". Riiiiiight. 

Even the text says that Pinner is naive; this is the result of growing up without meeting Shapers. 

She goes out of her way to say that the Takers and the Barzites offer more power, but the Awakened is a fight for Justice. I agree. But what about Justice for the crimes the Shapers committed on the Serviles? 

Don't worry, Pinner. I will avenge your brothers and sisters that died in Sucia. THEN we can discuss with the Shapers. 

 

I decided to join the Awakened, but I am not happy about the leadership, just so you know. 

 

 

 

It kind of sounds like you're not happy with the Awakened because they aren't acting like Takers? No, they aren't asking you to crack Shaper skulls because their goal isn't to crack Shaper skulls. If that's your ultimate goal then... yeah, you already know who you should join.

 

But the Awakened do back up their ideals with a plan this time around. They aren't just sitting around hoping for something to change.

[alhoon]

34 minutes ago, Mechalibur said:

 

It kind of sounds like you're not happy with the Awakened because they aren't acting like Takers? No, they aren't asking you to crack Shaper skulls because their goal isn't to crack Shaper skulls. If that's your ultimate goal then... yeah, you already know who you should join.

 

But the Awakened do back up their ideals with a plan this time around. They aren't just sitting around hoping for something to change.

 

The Barrier of the Winds or how it was called in the Original is defensive, unless Pinner didn't tell me the entire truth, which is completely possible. 

The Takers... they are too extreme. I have walked around and talked to various awakened. Most are less pacificist than Pinner. There have been Awakened that talk about the great injustice done to them. 

My problem with the Takers is that they are clearly and openly antagonistic to all the other serviles and not hiding it. They are so extreme that they band the Awakened along with the Servants. 

 

Also, I do not want to eradicate all Shapers. I want to break their control and chokehold on Terrestia. There's a guy on Zackary's attic that plays with crystals and is from a culture the Shapers kinda eradicated. GF5 is full of such cultures. 

I also want the Shapers to accept that Drakons, Drayks etc have a right to exist. And yes, I want them to treat Serviles like the Common. I do not want to wipe them out and I do not want the uncontrolled Shaping of the Takers.  

 

BUT... I don't know if the Rebellion can win WITHOUT the fanaticism of the Takers or the extend they are willing to go to Take their Free... 

And the Shapers should pay for the centuries of abuse and more specifically, the crimes they did in Sucia. 

Edited April 7 by alhoon

[Slawbug]

Read the ending topic if you think the Awakened don't know how to go on the offensive.

[ultra112]

6 hours ago, alhoon said:

I have not told her to escape yet. I want to help her. The story of her parents is there since there's a quest. I also want to see what happened to her. 

I told her to run after finishing the quest for her parents and origins.

[alhoon]

  

7 hours ago, Slarzahl said:

Read the ending topic if you think the Awakened don't know how to go on the offensive.

I did and... stalemate. Defense of the valley. Like the original ending from the sounds of it. 

I have to finish it to see the actual wording. But from the synopsis it seems like the original stalemate for 20 years. 

Edited April 7 by alhoon

[Slawbug]

Did you read the comments at the beginning of the topic?  It's almost like I wrote it with you in mind 😉

 

"in the Awakened ending, they now explicitly conquer and absorb the resources of the other sects using the Barrier of Winds drakons offensively (!) (firmly putting to rest the argument that they wouldn't have the resources to stand up to the Shapers like the G3 Rebels did)."

[alhoon]

6 hours ago, Slarzahl said:

Did you read the comments at the beginning of the topic?  It's almost like I wrote it with you in mind 😉

 

"in the Awakened ending, they now explicitly conquer and absorb the resources of the other sects using the Barrier of Winds drakons offensively (!) (firmly putting to rest the argument that they wouldn't have the resources to stand up to the Shapers like the G3 Rebels did)."

Pinner wants to take over the valley but do they try to expand out of the Valley? When I said "defense" that's what I meant: Whether they take over the valley and other sects and then wait for the Shapers to consider them Commons OR whether they actually push outside, setting the Shapers on the back foot.

 

IIRC from the original, they crushed the other sects and... stalemate. Stayed in the valleys they could defend.  

[Slawbug]

It does actually sound like one of the least destructive endings FWIW.  It's a stalemate siege, but the only deaths come from the Shapers trickling a stream of soldiers to go die fighting the drakons.  Because the Awakened don't try to expand into Shaper territory, the Shapers basically try to block off and ignore the whole region (as we've seen them do elsewhere -- with quarantines and barred islands) rather than putting forth the huge war effort that would be required to defeat them.  And while it's a quiet "siege" the Awakened are more than capable of taking care of their own needs, food, etc., thanks to all the work and resources they took over from Barzahl (in particular) and others.  One can imagine the Sholai finding ways to keep up a trade with the area as well, given all of their goals (both declared and undeclared).

[alhoon]

A wasted opportunity... Well, I will still go for that.  But that's because the Takers are horrible to other Serviles for not supporting unconditionally a world to the bitter end. I can always hope that at some point the Awakened will Wake up and work to take down the Shaper Empire and liberate the Serviles everywhere. 

Or at the very least that they will build Shadow-Road like things to siphon suffering serviles to Drypeaks. 

What you describe sounds a bit like Alwan's ending in GF5, where the Rogues are allowed to keep the Ashen Islands. 

 

Mechalibur is right, I think. I want to fight Shapers, I want Shapers to stop being ... what they are. Honestly, Shanti had to go too. I liked her but it is not personal. She was an instrument of oppression, like the rest of them. Shanti would never allow the Serviles and Creations to be free and pursue power. I am 100% against the Barzhites murdering her for the laughs and giggles, but Shapers must die by the hundreds for the Serviles to be free and the Drayks and Drakons to have a chance to live. Wyx the Drayk said it best. He did everything well and the Shapers decided he had to die just because. 

The Awakened never wanted to take down the Shaper Empire, they want peace too much for them to actually achieve it. And while they find justice for what was done to them in Sucia, they will never get justice for all the other Suffering Serviles. 

The Awakened philosophy suits me less than the Taker philosophy, I see that now. BUT The Taker leadership suits me less than the Awakened.

 

If only the Takers were not THAT extreme... I want something like Blade - ?? that we meet in the path to Mehdab. The one that is suspicious of Shapers, opposes Shapers but doesn't automatically attacks me. 

Edited April 8 by alhoon

[alhoon]

I am in the bandit cave, of the Thee. 

I see... Eko Blade as auto-hostile. For the life of me, I thought that I have talked with Eko Blade in the past.

[Randomizer]

You talked to Brodus Blade back in Freegate and East Medab.

[alhoon]

18 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

You talked to Brodus Blade back in Freegate and East Medab.

No, Brodus was absolutely sane. Was Eko Blade in Mutagen perhaps? Perhaps I remember him from there. 

[Randomizer]

Eko Blade was in Kazg in GF1-Mutagen.

[alhoon]

Meh, now I feel bad for brutally killing him... 

[alhoon]

Raw adaptable spores: Are they needed for anything after the Servile hermit tells you about the shield he can make for you? He told me other Alchemists may want them and they are pretty expensive... 

 

Also, do thorn bushes and spore bushes ever replenish? 

[Slawbug]

Learned Versa uses them, notably to turn Healing Spores into Restoration Spores, which is pretty great.

 

I don't believe the bushes ever replenish.

[alhoon]

31 minutes ago, Slawbug said:

Learned Versa uses them, notably to turn Healing Spores into Restoration Spores, which is pretty great.

 

I don't believe the bushes ever replenish.

 

O_O

And I have been selling ALL my healing spores.

[Randomizer]

Raw Adaptable Spores can be used with healing pods to make restoration pods or with healing spores to make restoration spores.  The limitation in the game is the number of raw adaptable spores so you should be able to find plenty healing pods, healing spores, and wine.

[alhoon]

23 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

Raw Adaptable Spores can be used with healing pods to make restoration pods or with healing spores to make restoration spores.  The limitation in the game is the number of raw adaptable spores so you should be able to find plenty healing pods, healing spores, and wine.

Wine? 

 

Can I make those, or do I need an alchemist? like the person Slawbug mentioned? 
Also, where can I find her? I hope she is not a Servant... 

[TriRodent]

There's wine all over the place, just look for things that look like ... wine bottles (worst case you can probably buy some from an innkeeper who also sells food items).

 

She's off in the Rising area.

 

(I 'think' there are 10-15+ RAS in the swamp/scattered hither and yon above and beyond what you need for the shield.  So you should be able to build up a nice supply of restoration pods eventually)

 

Edit: woops, sorry. I took "can I make those..." as 'can I make wine...'.  'You' can't make the restoration pods, but if you give the nice lady in question a RAS, a bottle of wine, and a healing pod/spore she'll fix you up.

Edited April 18 by TriRodent

[alhoon]

Will the Nice lady be angry with me for being an Awakened? Also, that nice lady will probably die when I purge every last Barzhite that draws breath. So, I will kindly take her restoration spores to help me butcher her and her friends. 

 

 

[alhoon]

Is there a way to save Alpha Amuz, the Alpha trapped in the swamps near the Taker lands? I can get him to help me clear the area, I can get him to kill himself as if he's a weak-willed servant mind, but I don't see any option to tell him to live free. Or to go join the Awakened. Or even to go back to the Takers. 

This is not a rogue Alpha like the others that went mad. It is an alpha without orders that sits scared in a swamp, afraid of "the voices" that tell it to go rogue (and I am told in a text soon after that alphas that go rogue go completely mad) 

 

That said: 
For a Faction that talks so much about the Creation Freedoms, the Takers are quite bad to the Alphas. That Alpha is not a dog, it is a creation that can talk. Sure, sure, Alphas are not the smartest of creations but it is a sentient creature. 

Edited April 19 by alhoon

[alhoon]

OH MY GOD!!!! 
Have you guys seen the Shaper robe?!?!?! 

I don't think there is any artifact in the game that can beat that. 

[alhoon]

I met... an infernal. One that has, for a change, not being summoned by a Shaper but decided to simply show up to hunt other infernals. 

However, I have already beaten the Bound One, before she gave me that stick of hers. 

Did I lose part of the quest? 

[oceanes]

15 minutes ago, alhoon said:

I met... an infernal. One that has, for a change, not being summoned by a Shaper but decided to simply show up to hunt other infernals. 

However, I have already beaten the Bound One, before she gave me that stick of hers. 

Did I lose part of the quest? 

Yes, I'm afraid so. The addition of this quest kind of incentivizes you to go west first rather than north, if you are using canisters or the purifying blade.

[alhoon]

1 hour ago, oceanes said:

Yes, I'm afraid so. The addition of this quest kind of incentivizes you to go west first rather than north, if you are using canisters or the purifying blade.

I was not aware of the inclusion of that quest. What do I lose? 

 

EDIT: 

 

  

On 3/27/2024 at 1:38 PM, Randomizer said:

- get all reward - reaper baton, sapphire (2), Canisters - Healing Craft, Quick Action

Is THAT what I lose? Healing craft which I really like? Oh, come on! 

Thank God I didn't go to finish Tuldaric's friend beforehand. 

 

Edited April 20 by alhoon

[alhoon]

Infernal Teriel: 

I am 14 level, I have 2 drakons at level 20, 2 Drayks at level 19, 1 Fyora at level 18 and Xander at level 15 with boosted intelligence and spells (+2). I am playing on normal. 

Aspect of Chaos was a breeze. 
Teriel? Teriel cuts through half my party in the first round and heals for whatever minor damage I did to him. I presented the Baton. 

 

How on earth can I beat that dude? I am not even sure I can turn to easy and win.