A:EftP - Dummy.

[militantm1nd]

So I need to get to Solberg's tower from Ft. Draco. In theory this sounds simple; buy a boat from Brandon and sail on by. Except for s-m-r-t me: I stole Draco's supplies and had to kill Brandon ending his longstanding marine engineering career. Now is there anyway to steal those nice boats in behind poor Brandon's shop?

 

Thanks,

 

militantm1nd

[adc.]

Hmmmm... Ask SuperBa, he's around here somewhere... Oh and yes, Welcome to Spiderweb Software, please emancipate/leave any remaining sanity at the door. You are welcome to take it back if there is any remaining...

[Superba]

There might be a way but I don't know it. You can always try the Orb to fly there across the river, but it seems too far. You can replace boats with a cheat code, but it wouldn' help if there's no one to buy them from. You can also load a previusly saved game, and this seems to me the only chance to get to Solberg. But I might miss some other ways, so you better wait for Randomizer ultimate help.

[Kreador]

It is not possible to get to Solberg with the Orb. Only by boat. How to get a boat if you've killed the only guy on the river who sells them, I don't know.

[Randomizer]

You would have to modify the zone script for Fort Draco to replace Brandon so you could buy a boat or copy the transaction part of the .dlg script so when you click on a sign in town you could get a boat.

[Actaeon]

Does pleaselikeme work in Escape from the Pit? That way you'd only have to find a save from before you killed Brandon (not from before you stole).

[Jerakeen]

I think the code you need is this:

Code:

	code =		(set_boat_range_property(8,12);	break;

 

A slight problem is that there are no clickable signs in A:EftP, so you'd have to attach it to a dialogue node. Presumably there's no-one left in Ft. Draco to talk to. Not having done anything with boat scripting before, I'm not sure if it would work from another town, but I think it should. It's worth a try.

 

Edit:

 

You could add it to the lizard dialogue in Formello. Right-click on the Avernum icon and select "Show Package Contents". Open the Contents folder, then the Resources folder. Locate the file called 't8Formellodlg.txt' and make a back-up copy just to be safe. Open it up and search for 'lizard'; you will find this:

 

Code:

begintalknode; // lizard	tag = 4;	state = -1;	nextstate = -1;	condition = 1;	text1 = "This fanged reptile looks up at you, depthless hatred and murder in its eyes.";

 

Add the extra code at the end, like so:

 

Code:

begintalknode; // lizard	tag = 4;	state = -1;	nextstate = -1;	condition = 1;	text1 = "This fanged reptile looks up at you, depthless hatred and murder in its eyes.";	code =		(set_boat_range_property(8,12);	break;

 

And save, obviously. Then take your party to Formello and chat up a lizard. Hopefully it will give you a boat. You'll have to go back to Ft. Draco to find out.

 

Probably be a good idea to change the script back afterward.

[adc.]

It is a good idea, but I still don't know if Jeff actually made this as a puzzle or it was just a glitch. So, better make a backup file, maybe it might have a corrupted outcome...

[Jerakeen]

It's neither a puzzle nor a glitch. Turning a town hostile has consequences, as it should. This is a cheat to try to sidestep those consequences.

[Lilith]

On the other hand, it is sort of funny that you're not allowed to steal the boats even after killing everyone who might stop you.

[Slawbug]

That's not funny, that's stupid.

 

I will never understand why you are allowed to attack friendly characters at all. There are no circumstances where you need to; there are no circumstances where you can get a meaningful prize for doing so (particularly since in AEFTP the herb/wisdom circuit will get you more XP at high levels than slaughtering townsfolk); and there are circumstances where this can lead to unexpected things happening and games getting permanently stuck. Witness the "Fort Avernum attacks me" bug Jeff posted about, and this one. Whereas any time you have a serious reason to attack a friendly, like a quest, there is a dialogue option to initiate combat.

[Jerakeen]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

On the other hand, it is sort of funny that you're not allowed to steal the boats even after killing everyone who might stop you.

True, but that's one of the little quirks we've always had in Avernum. Maybe they're LoJacked.

Edit @ Slarty:

And Jeff seems to agree with you on that; witness Avadon. Presumably he left it in A:EftP in deference to previous versions. I know some people would have complained if it had been changed.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

That's not funny, that's stupid.

I will never understand why you are allowed to attack friendly characters at all. There are no circumstances where you need to; there are no circumstances where you can get a meaningful prize for doing so (particularly since in AEFTP the herb/wisdom circuit will get you more XP at high levels than slaughtering townsfolk); and there are circumstances where this can lead to unexpected things happening and games getting permanently stuck. Witness the "Fort Avernum attacks me" bug Jeff posted about, and this one. Whereas any time you have a serious reason to attack a friendly, like a quest, there is a dialogue option to initiate combat.

i'd bet it's because a bunch of people complained about Avadon not having an option to attack friendly characters because it's ~~~unrealistic~~~

[BMA]

I think it's nice to know that you can attack any person you want, if you feel like doing it. Someone said a while ago that you were capable of picking up useless things which is, well, a useless option. When I think about it, I feel sure that it's the same case. I mean, its always there, and doesn't hurt.

 

When you dislike someone and want to whack him, you can imagine yourself to have 'spared' his life. That's better than knowing that you can't do anything about it anyway.

[adc.]

Right. I remembered that there was one boastful and arrogant drayk on Geneforge 4 (in derenton freehold), I wanted to give him a headshot even though he isn't real. So, instead, I killed him to make myself satisfied. The drayk was: Sakdoss

[Jerakeen]

The old Avernum games were beloved by many for the sense of freedom - which includes the freedom to do stupid things.

[Kreador]

I think in this case, Brandon should be one of those NPCs who never turns violent, like the ogres and the pit master in Spire.

[Superba]

Originally Posted By: Jerakeen

The old Avernum games were beloved by many for the sense of freedom - which includes the freedom to do stupid things.

I think I will write this quote on my super secret quotes copybook

No, I mean, it is serious fun to me this subject as I don't attack any good ones, maybe this is mainly because I don't know how to do it... however, there's that Bela in Bargha that I really would kill. Do you think the gate will stay forever close if I do?

[Jerakeen]

That's actually a really good question. Of course Bargha would turn hostile, but the question is whether Jeff considered that possibility in the town script. If I had to guess, I'd say no. The gate would probably stay shut.

 

Personally, I almost never attack friendlies, because for some irrational reason it makes me feel bad. But I still like having the option. There's no virtue in sparing the innocent if you have no choice.

 

And then there are always people who won't be satisfied unless they can kill Erika, Micah, Solberg, and the whole Tower of Magi. Which, by the way, has anyone done that?

[adc.]

Yeah, when I the demo for AV6 was completed, I tried to kill them. But they were too powerful...

[Randomizer]

Erika has a autodeath node, but I haven't tried the rest.

 

In Avernum 4, there were players that would see a mage isolated from everything else so they could kill him without making the area hostile only to find out later how the death would screw up the rest of the game.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

Erika has a autodeath node, but I haven't tried the rest.

She doesn't have one in this version of the game -- or if she does, it doesn't work properly.

[Harehunter]

It seems that even in Avernum, there are consequences for making bad choices. I, for one, have never given up the opportunity to try to kill Gladwell. There's something about that guy that drives me to it. But I still wait until I am certain I won't need him anymore.

 

As another example, I remember that the topic of killing Motrax in Exile 1 had been problematic, if you hadn't already gotten the hint about the amulet. Ooops.

[Slawbug]

Exile 1 doesn't have an amulet. I think you mean the information about the location of the stone key.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

@Jerakeen: I'm all about freedom, but freedom ought to mean freedom to take actions that have meaningful consequences. If I murder a whole town or outpost for no good reason, people should react to my characters as if they're the sort of people who can and do murder whole towns: fear, hatred, disgust, and more than a little awe. Anything less just destroys verisimilitude and cheapens the experience. It reminds the player that the world doesn't behave the way an actual, internally consistent world would.

 

This is something that gets on my nerves about both Jeff's earlier games, and some of his blog posts: he's always quick with the "you expected realism in a world full of Shapers, demons, magic, and all dat?" There are times when it feels like he doesn't grasp the difference between realism (i.e. following laws of physics, biology, psychology, etc. in the way the real world does) and internal consistency.

 

Puce deer: I'm with Slarty on this. If attacking friendlies doesn't do anything meaningful, there's no point having it in the game.

[Jerakeen]

People should also notice that all their stuff is missing after you wander through town, if you want realism.

 

I understand the rationale for what you're saying, and I have no quarrel with it for newer games like Avadon. But my feeling is that it would have been just a little too restrictive for the free-wheeling, wild adventure that is and was Avernum.

 

And while I've had my own issues with internal consistency in Spiderweb games, I'm not going to complain about being allowed more choices, especially if it helps preserve the atmosphere of the original games.

[Slawbug]

Originally Posted By: Othar Trygvassen: Gentleman

freedom ought to mean freedom to take actions that have meaningful consequences... Anything less just destroys verisimilitude and cheapens the experience. It reminds the player that the world doesn't behave the way an actual, internally consistent world would.

This. I think you really got to the essence of the argument here, much more neatly than I did!

[Skwish-E]

I like slaughtering the innocent sometimes in one of Jeff's games. I'll kill off a whole town, imagining that my reputation as a heartless warrior will strike fear onto the hearts of my enemies. I kill peaceful old lady sliths in Avernum 6, too. And whenever I get an opportunity to let minions run away while I confront their leader ... I don't.

[Harehunter]

Brooches, not amulets.

 

The only town I would repeatedly take down was Spire. Just something about the mayor, whichever one it may be,,,,

[adc.]

On AV3, you could kill Erika for no reason at all. But when you do, a dialogue will show up something like a quickfire fills the entire room, but you don't have time to escape. Then you die. You could kill her with and escape with the cooling amulets. But on the later game, the bunker on New Cotra with a wizard will ask you that who is responsible for the plagues on the surface? You will choose either Erika, The Vahnatis (wrong spelling) or the dragons. Then, I saw on AV6 on the World Map, there is a place named Ruins of Erika's tower...

I'll just simply say that combat mode should be enabled even at friendly areas for unnecessary but fun acts...

[militantm1nd]

I get an error no dialogue node with given tag...

 

Re: code:

code =

(set_boat_range_property(8,12);

break;

[Jerakeen]

Okay well I was probably wrong about the code then. As I said, I haven't done anything with boats before. Sorry, maybe someone else has a suggestion.

[Randomizer]

Try altering file - t14FortDracodlg.txt

 

Code:

begintalknode; // boat	tag = 1;	state = -1;	nextstate = -1;	condition = 1;	text1 = "This boat is almost complete. It looks like Brandon is putting proper craftsmanship into the things, which is good. A lot of people trust their lives to his work.";

so it now looks like this

 

Code:

begintalknode; // boat	tag = 1;	state = -1;	nextstate = -1;	condition = 1;	text1 = "This boat is almost complete. It looks like Brandon is putting proper craftsmanship into the things, which is good. A lot of people trust their lives to his work.";	code =set_boat_range_property(8,12):	break;

 

So when you enter Brandon's boat yard and click on the boat on the floor in the center you should get the text and now have a boat for use.

 

I think the problem was an extra left parenthesis messed up the code.

[Jerakeen]

Quote:

I think the problem was an extra left parenthesis messed up the code.

Of course. Careless of me.

[militantm1nd]

Still a dummy :

 

So when I change the t14 dialogue txt file and I enter into Fr. Draco I get:

 

t14fort Dracodlg.txt script failure: Invalid symbol in line 18.

t14fort Dracodlg.txt Error: Tried to process invalid dialogue script..

[Erebus the Black]

try changing the colon(":") at the end of "code = ..." to a semi-colon (";").

[militantm1nd]

Best. Coding. Ever.

 

Thank you all SO much for your help and care! The colon to semi-colon did the trick: when I click on the center boat in Brandon's shop I get the dialogue and the first boat on the right of the dock.

 

Thank you!!!!!

 

P.S. I am level 28 FINALLY getting able to do Find Soberg. LOL

 

Edit: That's Solberg with an "L" not Lisa with an "z". ;P

[militantm1nd]

Ok well, anyone have any ideas on how to resurrect the Ft. Draco blacksmith to fix the DemonSlayer?

 

hahaha. Oh man. Super dummy.

 

Edit: Actually, I checked and he's (the blacksmith) still alive, just very, very angry. You know, when I stole the supplies and got attacked- initially, I ran out of the town hoping to somehow placate the situation. After returning later and not discovering a way to do so- I took some well deserved aggression out on a few choice townsfolk.

 

[Jerakeen]

The 'forgiveme' cheat might work. Leave town first, then type shift d to bring up the cheat console. Type in forgiveme and hit enter. Go back to town and see. It doesn't work for really egregious crimes; I don't know if this qualifies.

[militantm1nd]

I was *NOT* egregious!

 

 

...to quote the Team America title song "^&*K Yeah!"