This Terrible Class

Kyshakk Koan · September 10, 2011

Okay, so around the end of 8th grade I took an entrance exam to go to Vo-Tech (it's this smart people school in New Jersey). Took the Algebra placement test there and the Algebra test at my own school. Now that I'm in Vo-Tech, my math class is Combined Algebra I. When "learning" finally started, it was utter torture. My teacher was talking about stuff like, "If you see 8y, it means 8 times y" when I was thinking I'd get something along the lines of "8x*18-10/4x>7y. Graph it." Can anyone please tell me how I can escape this?

Easygoing Eyebeast · September 10, 2011

8x*18-10/4x>7y? thats fairly easy, we learned that in 6th grade, practised in seventh grade, and I mastered it in eight grade. I would find the awnser to it if I was bothered. But I dont feel like going into teacher mode >.> Finnaly, somthing on these boards a 13 year old can under stand.

Easygoing Eyebeast · September 10, 2011

Try talking to the school's guidance counselor and see if you could maybe get transferred up into a higher math class.

Kyshakk Koan · September 10, 2011

Originally Posted By: Sylae

Try talking to the school's guidance counselor and see if you could maybe get transferred up into a higher math class.

Yes, I'll do that on Monday. Thanks, Sylae.

I hope I get transferred to Trigonometry!!

Easygoing Eyebeast · September 10, 2011

Ok...Tri-what? nevermind. So much to do even after I leave middle school, theres highschool, and then college, and then atleast 50 years of being an adult. Its a bit frightening.

Easygoing Eyebeast · September 10, 2011

Have fun in college, when this sort of thing is the standard and there's zero flexibility. Don't think of it as spending thousands of dollars on useless information and wasted time, think of it as spending thousands of dollars on a certificate that lets you interview for a job.

Obviously, not all classes are like this.

Well-Actually War Trall · September 10, 2011

Originally Posted By: Enraged Slith

Have fun in college, when this sort of thing is the standard and there's zero flexibility.

How have you got that figured? Universities allow much more flexibility in my experience, such as not even enforcing prerequesites for classes. The way I've seen it, you can sign up for (approximately) whatever classes you want and then it's your job to pass them. This is, however, distinct from the requirements for a particular program or degree, which do often require taking particular classes which are less than fun. Maybe this is what you meant.

Easygoing Eyebeast · September 10, 2011

Furthermore, you get to pick a major, and even then, the requirements to graduate are typically not extremely inflexible. Certainly there are general education requirements, but even those have at least a few options if you attend an institution that is large enough.

Magnificent Ornk · September 10, 2011

And fear not, if you want more difficult math, there is lots of difficult math out there to be had. Eventually you will find it.

In the meantime you could amuse yourself by scribbling sarcastic comments in your notebook. Like, beside "8y = 8 TIMES Y" you could write that you have discovered a truly beautiful proof of this theorem, but unfortunately the margin is too small to contain it.

Hatchling Cockatrice · September 10, 2011

You can also give the class a bit of time. They'll often start with some very slow review to make sure everyone is at least on the same page before jumping into the new stuff.

—Alorael, who is forced to admit that he no longer recalls how to do a fair amount of fairly basic algebra. Calculus? Yes, mostly. Statistics? Sure, with a quick glance at old notes. Things that look like polynomials but have negative exponents? Not so good.

Ineffable Wingbolt · September 10, 2011

That's the problem with lower level, "entry" courses. They pander not to the mathematician, but to the general populace. This goes for most subjects I found...

Once the ball of education really, REALLY gets going, you'll hit math so complicated even GOD breaks out a calculator when faced with the prospect.

What specifically that entails, well... like Alorael, much of my math education has leached away.

Hatchling Cockatrice · September 10, 2011

The easiest thing to do is check the text book to see if it gets to a level that you want before the end.

Hatchling Cockatrice · September 11, 2011

Originally Posted By: Trenton Uchiha, shaper servile.

Ok...Tri-what?

it's like regular gonometry but there's three times as much of it

Easygoing Eyebeast · September 11, 2011

Originally Posted By: Trenton Uchiha, shaper servile.

Ok...Tri-what?

Unflappable Drayk · September 11, 2011

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Originally Posted By: Trenton Uchiha, shaper servile.

Ok...Tri-what?

it's like regular gonometry but there's three times as much of it

and it is written 3gonometry

Kyshakk Koan · September 11, 2011

Originally Posted By: Alorael

You can also give the class a bit of time. They'll often start with some very slow review to make sure everyone is at least on the same page before jumping into the new stuff.

Not in my case. I actually asked what will be covered, and she said we'll do some geometry. Not really what I was hoping.

Originally Posted By: Dantius

[image]

That's what my brother said. So he actually convinced me to learn what all those buttons I never press actually mean.

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

And fear not, if you want more difficult math, there is lots of difficult math out there to be had.

That makes me happy and frightened at the same time. What's the hardest in your opinion?

Easygoing Eyebeast · September 11, 2011

Originally Posted By: Flame Fiend

That makes me happy and frightened at the same time. What's the hardest in your opinion?

Probably anything involving either partial differential equations or complex analysis. The stuff that high schoolers are told is "hard" math, like calculus or linear algebra, is a joke compared to that stuff.

Well-Actually War Trall · September 11, 2011

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

you could write that you have discovered a truly beautiful proof of this theorem, but unfortunately
the margin is too small to contain it.

/GROAN

Originally Posted By: Necris Omega

even GOD breaks out a calculator when faced with the prospect.

God uses Mathematica.

Originally Posted By: Dantius

The stuff that high schoolers are told is "hard" math, like calculus or linear algebra, is a joke compared to that stuff.

Hey, I'm taking LinAlg right now!

Hatchling Cockatrice · September 11, 2011

The hardest math you'll encounter depends on what you're doing and what you like.

How do you feel about proofs and constructions? They'll show up heavily in geometry, and then you'll never see the latter again. If you don't love the straightedge and compass, this will be your nemesis.

How do you feel about complications in the whole "solve for variables" routine and having to build a huge toolkit of tricks to simplify? Calculus has plenty of that.

How about those word problems? If figuring out what you're trying to answer and how you have to answer it is what really drives you up the wall, statistics, if you take it, will be horrendous.

Trigonometry, for all its fearsome reputation, isn't really such a different thing. You get some new functions to learn, but that's about it. It's right at home with algebra, and is in fact something of an interface between geometry and the numbers that seemed to have vanished somewhere in the class.

—Alorael, who found geometry the most frustrating part of his math education. The teacher's impenetrable Russian accent and awful manner (and manners) helped it earn that distinction. And then, against everyone's wisdom, he found himself to be partial to partial differential equations. They're not as bad as everyone seems to think!

Kyshakk Koan · September 11, 2011

Actually, I find all that stuff fun! (stop looking at me like that) As long as I get good teachers (which Vo-Tech claims to mostly have), I'll be fine. The only time I don't like math is when it's way over my head (which only happens because of my show-offy brother). Like when I was in 4th grade and my brother asked me what the derivative of 4x was.

Hatchling Cockatrice · September 11, 2011

A lot of math is tinged with the terrible disappointment of finding out that arcane symbols and terminology are actually quite simple when you know what they are. Sigma? Just a lot of addition. Derivatives? Quite often, multiplication and subtraction. That squiggly S thing? Like derivatives, but backwards!

—Alorael, who finds it frustrating that by the time he knows all the cool jargon, it's no longer cool, just functional. Even the terrible secrets of science eventually boil down to relatively mundane stuff, often. The secret of doing science is probably still finding the mundane stuff that keeps the universe running fascinating.

Well-Actually War Trall · September 11, 2011

And let's not forget that the topics mentioned by Alorael are pretty much the fundamentals of mathematics. If you never take math beyond high school or a college gen-ed, that's all you'll deal with. No matter how much you hated using a straight-edge in geometry, PhD level maths will be far worse.

Re: jargon - that's why you get a year ahead of your peers in math. You can sling terms at them and watch their eyes glaze over, while you and your older friends laugh.

We made shirts for our BC calc class. The front logo was "Get ∑"

Ineffable Wingbolt · September 11, 2011

Like learning the magician's secrets, education can really suck all the wonder out of life. Unless, of course, it leads to yet more questions, which it very often does, but sometimes peeking behind the curtain reveals the puppet master is just some bald guy with a microphone and a box of cheezits.

Ah well. When the appeal of theory dies, hopefully there's an application portion to take things over.

Hatchling Cockatrice · September 11, 2011

Or you look behind the curtain and discover that the puppeteer is playing dice with the universe. And the dice are loaded!

—Alorael, who thinks he lost the metaphor somewhere. On the bright side, he stumbled into Alpha Centauri.

Well-Actually War Trall · September 11, 2011

Originally Posted By: Necris Omega

Like learning the magician's secrets, education can really suck all the wonder out of life. Unless, of course, it leads to yet more questions, which it very often does, but sometimes peeking behind the curtain reveals the puppet master is just some bald guy with a microphone and a box of cheezits.

Ah well. When the appeal of theory dies, hopefully there's an application portion to take things over.

I think that just depends on your education, and where you take so said education. If you take a "theory" based education like physics, well you just base all your "knowledge" on theory. I'm not sayin that everything in Physics is based on theory, but as far as I can see, there's a lot of things outside of Earth itself that Physicists are more or less less taking stabs in the dark and going with the idea that makes the most sence until proven other wise.

Where as if I start talking about my education about vertical ups, 3 run fillets and outside corner fillets, you guys wouldn't have a clue what I'm on about, but it has so much practical use, and these techniques I have to learn are quite necessary in our modern environment.

Hatchling Cockatrice · September 11, 2011

Originally Posted By: dead wiring

On the bright side, he stumbled into Alpha Centauri.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Magnificent Ornk · September 11, 2011

Partial differential equations are indeed pretty nasty, unless they are separable, in which case they just reduce to multiple ordinary differential equations, and it's no big deal. Complex analysis is really not bad; it's a weird art for solving lots of bizarre integrals, and at first it's really surprising that it actually works, but there are really only a handful of tricks to master, and once you get the hang of them, it's kind of fun.

I really hate Mathematica. I've been using it quite a lot for something 15 years, and I still hate it. It's a good function plotter, but all too often it is simply unable to do the thing I want it to do. It's heavily marketed, though, so it rarely admits up front that there is anything it cannot do. Often I have to search long and read between the lines of the help pages in order to determine that it just doesn't do what I need. I prefer Matlab; it doesn't do everything I need, but at least it doesn't pretend.

Well-Actually War Trall · September 11, 2011

Originally Posted By: dead wiring

Or you look behind the curtain and discover that the puppeteer is playing dice with the universe. And the dice are loaded!

—Alorael, who thinks he lost the metaphor somewhere. On the bright side, he stumbled into Alpha Centauri.

Actually, that is more like a metaphive.

Well-Actually War Trall · September 11, 2011

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

Partial differential equations are indeed pretty nasty, unless they are separable, in which case they just reduce to multiple ordinary differential equations, and it's no big deal. Complex analysis is really not bad; it's a weird art for solving lots of bizarre integrals, and at first it's really surprising that it actually works, but there are really only a handful of tricks to master, and once you get the hang of them, it's kind of fun.

If you want to see a real world application of partial differential equations, Physical Chemistry is nothing but pure applied calculus.

Easygoing Eyebeast · September 11, 2011

Originally Posted By: Harehunter

PChem

*curls up in a corner and cries*

Hatchling Cockatrice · September 11, 2011

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

Partial differential equations are indeed pretty nasty, unless they are separable, in which case they just reduce to multiple ordinary differential equations, and it's no big deal. Complex analysis is really not bad; it's a weird art for solving lots of bizarre integrals, and at first it's really surprising that it actually works, but there are really only a handful of tricks to master, and once you get the hang of them, it's kind of fun.

But you are a physicist and not a mathematician so you only need it to work and not have to rigorously prove that it works at all limits.

Quote:

I really hate Mathematica.

I had to help someone find why his saved data wasn't reloading properly to graph only to find that it doesn't save zero as two parts when you use complex numbers.

Magnificent Ornk · September 11, 2011

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

But you are a physicist and not a mathematician so you only need it to work and not have to rigorously prove that it works at all limits.

True, but then again, I have to actually find the solution, not just prove that it exists.

Understated Ur-Drakon · September 11, 2011

Originally Posted By: Dantius

Originally Posted By: Harehunter

PChem

*curls up in a corner and cries*

Meh, I'll have to take Physical Chemistry in the future. I've found that classes never live up to their hype--I'm in Organic Chemistry and it's not difficult. I've even been looking through the text book and understanding the content without too much reading.

Well-Actually War Trall · September 11, 2011

I think it depends on who you are as a person. It's like how some people are great at math, or excellent musicians and artists, and others aren't. I know someone who took PChem first semester of his first year of college, and someone who avoided PChem at all costs his third year of college.