Upcoming feats, and things to come

[Trenton.]

I just have one question in this post, Are they gonna redo all the first three avernums? If so, then SWEET

 

In upcoming news:

 

Lilith is only 22 posts away from reaching YOUR POSTLINESS. Can she reach it?

 

My thirteenth birthday is on the 31'st of this month, I am happy.

 

Anyone has anything else important to add?

[Triumph]

Turnips. Turnips are always important.

[Alorael at Large]

Yes, the current plan is remakes of the entire original trilogy.

 

—Alorael, who has to point out that Lilith is not approaching Postliness. She will be, as always, in before the apocalypse.

[Karoka]

There was an earthquake in an unexpected place, and a hurricane is expected to come towards an unexpected place as well.

 

Also: I am 14,887 posts away from Your Postliness.

[Aoslare]

Uh oh. This does suggest a shift in the title numbers may be imminent.

[Trenton.]

I know that she will always be "In before the apocolypse" but shes about to the post number title that you have your postliness.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

Uh oh. This does suggest a shift in the title numbers may be imminent.

Excellent! Another chance for us all to whine about not getting custom titles. Not that I want one, who would want all that attention? I'll definitely never ask for one.

Originally Posted By: Trenton Uchiha, rebel servile.

Lilith is only 22 posts away from reaching YOUR POSTLINESS. Can she reach it?

Assuming the benchmark is 15,000, I count 12 posts away. I doubt lilith has bade 10 posts in the hour since you've posted. Subtraction really is the hardest arithmetic.

[Enraged Slith]

3.8 billion years ago, a star was torn asunder by a supposedly dormant black hole.

 

Also, a young boy recently advanced the knowledge of solar energy by looking to and then emulating nature. (EDIT: WRONG)

[A less presumptuous name.]

How does a black hole become dormant? Last I knew the gravitational effects of a black hole were pretty much constant.

(Uh oh, here comes SoT with a few pages explaining some weird phenomenon that will go way over my head.)

[Skwish-E]

It was dormant because it was sleeping, sillies! Then that dumb old star had to wake it up. Boy do those things wake up cranky!

[Trenton.]

Can a black hole dissapear completely? I dont know. Lets google!

 

 

google came up with this

 

http://www.phys.vt.edu/~jhs/faq/blackholes.html#q13

 

This process by which black holes lose mass is very slow (at least for massive black holes made from stars), so the time it would take for a typical black hole to eventually disappear is very long. (For a black hole of a mass equal to the mass of the Sun, the entire process would take about 10**66 years, or 1 with 66 zeros after it.)

[keira]

Originally Posted By: Trenton Uchiha, rebel servile.

Can a black hole dissapear completely? I dont know. Lets google!

Not being an astrophysicist, I may be full of pookey, but a black hole is just a very incredibly dense chunk of matter that is so dense its gravitational pull sucks in electromagnetic waves (light). Therefore, since they are made of matter they behave as matter. Which means it doesn't magically disappear. And since there's no nuclear stuff going on (right?) then that matter is not being converted.

Now, why I am completely wrong and a fool:

[Trenton.]

Look at my previous post... I edited it in the time you wrote that...

[Karoka]

So I guess we'll live to see the day!

[Trenton.]

The humans of the future will, Karoka, however I doubt the sun would suddenly explode in our lifetime, and I dont think that it's big enough to turn into a black hole.

[Niemand]

Originally Posted By: Master1

How does a black hole become dormant? Last I knew the gravitational effects of a black hole were pretty much constant.

Originally Posted By: Trenton

[information about black hole evaporation]

Originally Posted By: Sylae

Not being an astrophysicist, I may be full of pookey, but a black hole is just a very incredibly dense chunk of matter that is so dense its gravitational pull sucks in electromagnetic waves (light). Therefore, since they are made of matter they behave as matter. Which means it doesn't magically disappear. And since there's no nuclear stuff going on (right?) then that matter is not being converted.

It looks like people have conflated two things here: becoming dormant and ceasing to exist. Black Holes can do both, for a reasonable interpretation of dormancy. Specifically, black holes are very noticeable and make a big mess when matter is falling into them (because some of the matter and energy miss and escape), but if you don't feed a black hole it just sits very quietly, since it doesn't radiate (in any normal way).

As Trenton found via Google, Black Holes do radiate very slightly, emitting what is called Hawking Radiation. Since this mechanism takes energy away, it will eventually cause the black hole to evaporate. As noted, this is a very slow process for black holes with macroscopic masses. (Since the rate of radiation is inversely proptional to the black hole's mass, microscopic black holes can atually dissolve quite rapidly.)

[Trenton.]

*grins slightly, proud for looking that up on google then snorts as anyone could have done it* yet I thought all black holes were microscopic as quoted many times before in all the space books I read, "after the huge star blows, the remaining gravity shrinks to the size OF THE HEAD OF A PIN and becomes a black hole"

[AethirWeb]

Has anyone wondered if the universe comes with the big bang, then all of it is consumed by a black hole but the black hole can't handle that mass so it big bangs

[Niemand]

Originally Posted By: Trenton

I thought all black holes were microscopic as quoted many times before in all the space books I read, "after the huge star blows, the remaining gravity shrinks to the size OF THE HEAD OF A PIN and becomes a black hole"

It depends on what you mean by microscopic, and I was a bit vague. I was referring to the mass of the black hole, and comparing it to the masses of things which are microscopic, as opposed to the masses of things which are not microscopic, like stars.

The size (in the sense of radius or volume) of the singularity at the center of the black hole is, of course, always zero (unless we're talking about the radius of a ring singularity, which still has zero volume). The event horizon of the black hole (being the boundary within which even light is trapped) is larger for black holes with larger masses. For a super-massive black hole, like those in the centers of many galaxies it can be as large or larger than the radius of the Earth's orbit around the sun.

Originally Posted By: AethirWeb

Has anyone wondered if the universe comes with the big bang, then all of it is consumed by a black hole but the black hole can't handle that mass so it big bangs

Not sure quite what you mean here, or if this was meant as a joke, but the point of a black hole is that it is what happens when space can't handle all the mass that's packed into it.

[Skwish-E]

Dormant = Sleeping.

Ceasing to Exist = Sleeping with the Fishes.

 

Black holes should stay away from starfish. I'm just saying.

[Lazarus.]

Originally Posted By: Enraged Slith

Also, a young boy recently advanced the knowledge of solar energy by looking to and then emulating nature.

Hmm

[Enraged Slith]

Quote:

Not sure quite what you mean here, or if this was meant as a joke, but the point of a black hole is that it is what happens when space can't handle all the mass that's packed into it.

He's talking about the idea that all matter will eventually merge into a single black hole which will then produce another big bang and start the process over again.

EDIT: Dammit Laz, let me feel like I've learned something for once.

[Necris Omega]

Black Holes CAN supposedly irradiate themselves into nothing, so so one of the arguments on how the Large Hadron Collider won't actually doom us all with unfathomable and uncomprehendable horror the likes of which Cthulhu would be proud of goes...

 

Buuuuuuut... Matter in and of itself, specifically subatomic particles, has a predicted limited lifespan, even if the numbers involved are so huge their scientific notation needs scientific notation. So, theoretically, all black holes will at some point cease to be along with everything else that exists...

 

HOWEVER, as Black Holes are defined as a gravitational singularity, a point in which the laws of math no longer apply, absolutely all bets are off as even 2+2="Squished into Oblivion" when Black Holes are involved. So... no one knows and no one can know.

 

I am, of course, only an armchair physicist without any formal training or any of that boring "math" stuff to back me up, and am only as accurate as the "Fun facts" I read on various nerdy websites.

[Niemand]

Originally Posted By: Necris Omega

Buuuuuuut... Matter in and of itself, specifically subatomic particles, has a predicted limited lifespan, even if the numbers involved are so huge their scientific notation needs scientific notation. So, theoretically, all black holes will at some point cease to be along with everything else that exists...

Not really; electrons (and positrons) and neutrinos are stable because there's literally nothing lighter that they can decay to (as far as we know). Protons are may well be completely stable as well, so you should expect there to be some matter around all the time, even if it gets arbitrarily sparse.

Originally Posted By: Necris Omega

HOWEVER, as Black Holes are defined as a gravitational singularity, a point in which the laws of math no longer apply, absolutely all bets are off as even 2+2="Squished into Oblivion" when Black Holes are involved. So... no one knows and no one can know.

I'll admit to knowing virtually nothing about GR, but the people who do know something about it say that they can make useful predictions. I think that the trick of it may be that you don't need to calculate anything at the singularity, but rather at at the event horizon, where physics is perfectly consistent, if strange.

[Student of Trinity]

The singularity that is 'in the center' of a black hole doesn't really have a size, because it isn't a thing or a place. It's an instant. It's not Heaven or Hell; it's Judgement Day, the end of time. That's why there's no escape from inside a black hole. The flow of time itself drags you inward. Once you're in, further out isn't just a place you've left behind. It's literally the past. Inward is the future — and it has a definite end point. That's the singularity.

 

What people normally mean by the 'size of a black hole' is its Schwarzschild radius. That's the radius of the event horizon, the point of no return. There's nothing particularly there. If you fall through the event horizon, you won't notice anything at all. There's nothing solid there, no barrier, no great jolt of gravitational force, or anything like that. It's a geometrical surface, from which outside observers will notice that nothing ever comes out.

 

The size of an event horizon is directly proportional to the mass of the black hole. A black hole with the mass of our sun would be a few kilometers across, IIRC. One with the mass of the earth, barely a couple of centimeters.

 

The mass of a black hole is a funny thing. As far as gravity is concerned, it's exactly the same as any other kind of mass. As long as you're outside the event horizon, you can orbit a black hole exactly the way you would orbit a star or planet of the same mass. But the mass of an ordinary object is the mass of the matter from which it is composed. A black hole is merely a feature of spacetime geometry. It may be surrounded by matter, but it itself is not made of anything but space. The only part of it which is not simply empty space is the singularity itself. Whatever that is, it is not a thing or a place.

 

So where is the mass of the black hole, and what is it? Those may seem like good questions, but somehow they just don't make sense for a black hole. Asking them is a bit like asking where the edge of the world is. Most things have edges, but the world is round. Questions about its edge don't have answers, because they are just wrong questions. A lot of seemingly reasonable questions about black holes are impossible questions in kind of the same way.

[Trenton.]

HOLY CRAP! Slarty...Were you always this genius?

 

*rereads 5 more times to make sense and pieces it all together*

 

So a black hole has no mass because It has no edge? its bassicaly a somthing-nothing?

[Aoslare]

Originally Posted By: Trenton Uchiha, rebel servile.

HOLY CRAP! Slarty...Were you always this genius?

Yes. I have a pointer to Student of Trinity's genius instead of just having my own value. That's the secret to my success.

[Necris Omega]

Originally Posted By: Niemand

Not really; electrons (and positrons) and neutrinos are stable because there's literally nothing lighter that they can decay to (as far as we know). Protons are may well be completely stable as well, so you should expect there to be some matter around all the time, even if it gets arbitrarily sparse.

Quarks.

Ultimately, however, before any of that happens, the infinite expansion of space will grow to the point where it overcomes the electical forces holding the subatomic particles together. Thus, said particles become too distant to associate with one another in any meaningful sense. Protons and elections will be too distant from one another to bond to form matter. Thus, the Big Rip theory for the end of the Universe.

And that's all assuming there theory of decaying cosmological constants is bunk.

Originally Posted By: Niemand

I'll admit to knowing virtually nothing about GR, but the people who do know something about it say that they can make useful predictions. I think that the trick of it may be that you don't need to calculate anything at the singularity, but rather at at the event horizon, where physics is perfectly consistent, if strange.

I'unno, how "useful" is any prediction when you're being sucked into the infinite oblivion of a black hole? Really, while interesting, I have to honestly doubt the basic practicality of much of quantum physics.

[Trenton.]

I dont think sucked into infinite oblivion is really the best term here. I heard that the gravity cuts all the stuff up and strings it into the black hole.

[Niemand]

Originally Posted By: Trenton

I heard that the gravity cuts all the stuff up and strings it into the black hole.

It sounds like you're thinking of spaghettification, which is the stretching of objects close to a black hole due to the differing gravitational force on the near and far side of the object. (This actually happens near any gravity well, but the effects are much more noticeable for black holes since other objects can be brought closer to them.)

[Karoka]

Did they really call it spaghettification?

[Necris Omega]

Actually, yes. They do.

[Student of Trinity]

Yes, for some value of 'they'. It's not a standard term, but it is occasionally mentioned. Niemand is exactly right about what it is. The only thing I can think to add is that for a sufficiently large black hole, none of that spaghettification stuff would happen until long after you had passed the event horizon. So the spaghettificiation business is in principle quite separate from the 'no escape' phenomenon, where time and space tip over at the horizon. Whether there really are any black holes big enough that you could survive entry, though, is another question. Maybe some of the enormous ones at the centers of galaxies.

[Cairo Jim]

I doubt you would survive goign past the event horizon. I think you'd be pretty squashed or compressed. Or even exploded.

[Necris Omega]

Maybe some of the great "voids" in space are caused by mind googlingly huge black holes...

[Jerakeen]

Please tell me "googlingly" is not a word now.

[Cairo Jim]

There is such thing as a googleplex (sp?). I'd imagine it's in reference to that

[Triumph]

Maybe he meant "bogglingly?"

[Necris Omega]

No, actually it was a reference to something.

 

Nevermind.

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: Cairo Jim

There is such thing as a googleplex (sp?). I'd imagine it's in reference to that

A googleplex is 10^{10^{100}} and predates Google.

[Cairo Jim]

I knew it was a very large number, just couldn't remember how big.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Necris Omega

Quarks.

Electrons and neutrinos aren't made of quarks. As far as we know, they aren't made of anything.

[Karoka]

*brainfart*

Electrons are made of electricity, DUH!

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Karoka

*brainfart*
Electrons are made of electricity, DUH!

if anything it'd be more accurate (though still an oversimplification) to say that the reverse is true

[A less presumptuous name.]

Just so we know, Google and googol are not the same. The latter is the spelling of the number, according to the Apple Dictionary. Likewise with googolplex rather than googleplex.

[Alorael at Large]

The website is named after the number, but intentionally or unintentionally misspelled. The Googleplex is Google's headquarters, and is a punny portmanteau of Google and complex that happens to resemble the mind-bogglingly large number.

 

Electricity isn't a thing per se, but rather a description of a collection of phenomena that mostly have to do with electrons and their movement.

 

—Alorael, who was horribly disappointed to discover the googolplex is not the largest named number. It's not even close! And it's not even remotely close to being the hardest to write down.

[Karoka]

What's the largest named number? Is it this?

Click to reveal.. (Get ready...)

999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 999, 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[Aoslare]

No.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Karoka

What's the largest named number? Is it this?

nope

Graham's number is way, way bigger, like unfathomably bigger, like if you took that number you typed and raised it to the power of itself it'd still be much smaller than Graham's number

and there are specific numbers useful in mathematics that are bigger than that. TREE(3) is a number so staggeringly, mind-bogglingly large that even Graham's number is tiny by comparison

[Alorael at Large]

(Edited: Sniped. Twice.)

 

No. There are mathematical proofs that involve numbers so large they cannot be written out in standard notation. Not just because they would take too long, but because there is literally not enough space or matter in the universe to represent the digits in any physical form.

 

—Alorael, who will also point out that your number isn't named. There's no standard term for it, and although it's relatively simple to express in scientific notation (or rather, if you add .9 to it it becomes 10^n, where n is several hundred).