AethirWeb

Hey, I'm a game designer myself and I thought that...the stat page for GeneForge isn't very balanced. Let's list the pros and cons... ---Pros -Create a varied character, classes are merely stat boosts and you can create a melee shaper or a magical guardian. -Gives a feeling of customization and freedom -Resemblance to DnD spreadsheets -All customization and fairly balanced ---Cons -Sacrifice damage output to access basic treasure (Sacrifice precious strength points for mechanics just to find that there's only one hundred coins and a thorn baton on the other side of the door) -Some classes are unbalanced. The shaper is outrageously powerful, the game revolves around shaping, and therefore the shaper class. The agent class lacks the potential of shaping, and is the weakest. -You must spend ten points just to assign one point to a single skill. This is not completely balanced, and the Avadon and Avernum: EftP outranks this system. --------------My Suggestion Hopefully Jeff is looking at this. Maybe not. However, the Avernum and Avadon systems are vastly superior. For example, they are not usually capped at around twelve points for one skill, they have a forty point cap. This creates more balance within the game, also considering that skills and stats now only cost one point to assign (with the exception of Avadon which still is weird) So, keep the forty points cap stat system. Then switch it to a skill tree. ---Pros! -It's cheaper than a spread sheet. So you don't sacrifice stats for skills. -It's beginner-friendly. Have you ever been crushed by creations, and found out that the build your using is completely terrible? This solves some of the problems. -Even in GeneForge 1, these following skills are mostly canonical and very effective (I can't actually test them, i'm only giving an assumption) -It may seem limiting, but a skill tree was not very restrictive in Avernum's remake. ---Cons! -Less versatility. You may need to take away some points in mechanics and leadership to attain a certain skill to rack up your damage. (However, I was hoping Jeff could increase the level limit and add a couple of areas, and most of the higher tier skills are mainly luxury. The highest will only be for high damage outputs that are ridiculous) -IT'S NOT LIKE THE OLD GENEFORGE (If anyone makes this argument, then I have to say, did any African slaves argue about Lincoln's freedom for them? IT'S NOT LIKE SLAVERY. Come on, just open yourselves up. The GeneForge spread sheet was like slavery in my opinion. No offense Jeff) -----------The Skill Sheets----------- So the skills could be distributed like this. Akin to Avernum, there will be page for magical and physical skills. However, there will be a page for miscellaneous abilities like Leadership or Mechanics. These basic skills are the lowest "tier", the following will be suggestive class-only bonus skills. ---Shaper - These skills are to enhance the Shaper's shaping skills and become a semi-melee warrior. -Genetic Mastery - Increases the starting stats of a creation by 1 per level. (I want the Shaper to be item-independent, so he can have power without items) -Shapeforge Blades - Increases the shaper's physical attack based on his shaping skills. (This is a small bonus, it's only for if the Shaper needs to get his hands dirty. This prompts a melee-based shaper) -DNA Consume - This skill will destroy nearby creations at a low chance. Doing this restores your energy, and grants temporary essence. -Essence Detonate - Sacrifices a creation to deal damage to nearby enemies. -Energy Lash - Fires a cone of essence that deal massive damage. Magic resistance and physical resistances are lowered. ---Guardian - These skills are based around the Guardian being a DPS and tank. And bashing creations. -Conviction - Increases the Guardian's HP and Resistances -Protectorate's Blessing - Increases the Guardian's physical defense by 5% when using a shield (This is to lessen the instances of a Guardian dual wielding, if it should be implemented) -Block Breaker - Cuts resistances of a enemy by 30% at skill cap for two turns. -Crippling Strike - Guardian's attacks have a 20% chance to lower resistances and slow the enemy. -Adrenaline Rush - This skill will send a Guardian in a mad charge. Unlike the Adrenaline Rush from Avernum, the Guardian can move 8 spaces with this skill. Enemies cannot slow you in this state. ---Agent - These skills were created to enhance the solo capabilities of the Agent -Stealth - Temporarily renders the Agent invisible. (Can be used to sneak past enemies, however it is a short duration so some timing is required) -Essence Disruption - Increases damage done to creations by 35% at max level. (This follows the lore of the Agent, where they are dispatched to hunt down rogues) -Assassination - Increases damage done to humanoids by 25% at max level. (Again this follows the lore) -Anatomy - Increases the damage dealt to enemies lower level than you. (Having a level advantage against even a boss will have effect. Or else it can be some different effect, this is a suggestion) -Cunning - Increases the Agent's magic stats, leadership, mechanics, and intelligence by 1 per level. (This is to basically enhance the Agent's solo power again) *note: I probably won't think of a tree for Rebel classes, because this is only a suggestion.

Well change everything to the latest UI is the first thing. Also change the graphics. However, next up is the most important aspect. Unlike Avernum and Avadon, you only control one person in GeneForge. This means you need to somehow fulfill all roles. I like to become a DPS/supportive hybrid Shaper with dozens of battle creation tanks, fire creation DPS, and magic creation artillery. (My build is two Tralls, one Drakon, and a Wingbolt) Although I love the game. The easiest way to win is ironically, the fragile Mage. Because the entire game is based on skill points, you must sacrifice your personal power to create a party of creations. All offensive capabilities must go to creations for a good party. This is a serious problem. So we should switch the skills system to the Avernum system. We will have three pages based on character development, Melee and Ranged skills, Magic and Spellcraft, Character growth and misc. skills. We can spend skill points to increase the effectiveness of our characters this way. Meanwhile, creations can be placed on a separate page. If we tweak bosses and enemies a bit stronger, and make a few changes, it will be pretty good. However, the canister training in GF1 is not too bad. It prompts more exploration in order to cap your abilities. We should also have class-based abilities. Avadon and Avernum are games where it doesn't matter how you build your character. However, in GeneForge we need a certain build to even SURVIVE, let alone deal decent damage without items. ----Skill Examples ---Shaper -Genetic Mastery - Increases the base stats of creations by +1 per level -DNA Consume - Has a chance to destroy enemy creations -Shaped Blades - Increases physical damage by 2% per shaper level ---Guardian -Conviction - Increases hardiness and physical defense -Guardian Mastery - Increases defense by 10% when using shields -Block Breaker - Shatters physical defenses for two turns ---Agent -Stealth - Renders the Agent invisible for three turns, (Using this to sneak by enemies is a possibility) -Creation Disruption - Deals extra damage against creations -Assassinate - Deals a massive critical on humanoid targets ---Lifecrafter -Genetic Mastery -Rebuke Life - Takes a portion of your HP and Energy to heal creations -Lifecraft Mastery - Increases effectiveness of Shaped Items ---Servile -Vengeance - Deals extra damage against enemies based on HP (lower HP means higher ATK) -Discipline - Increases Servile's defenses and resistances -Stolen Arts - Increases magic stats by +1 every 2 levels ---Sorceress -Sorcery - Increases all magic stats based on INT -Invoke - Temporaeily increases the effectiveness of spells -Arcane Arts - Increases energy and reduces cool downs on spells Based on lore, Shapers gain abilities to increase their effectiveness and draw power from creations. Like completely ahnilating creations like you've always dreamed. Guardians may fulfill the bodyguard role as It should be with the listed skills. Agents should be stealthy and have the ability to solo battles, the listed skills increases her damage against creations (This matches the lore how Agents are dispatched to hunt rogues) Lifecrafters have a more peaceful approach, as they aid their creations, rather than the skills of the Shapers would use them. Warriors are more damage-orientated and serve as frontline nuisances. Infiltrators will specialize in mechanics and leadership, this class will sweet talk their way out, or assassinate their enemies. Servile should revolve around their lust for vengeance against the Shapers, serviles can take down humanoids (this includes Thahds, Battle Alphas and Drakons) with ease. Shock Troopers are pretty odd, they are a reverse of the shapers, they should be based on tanking while their creations launch heavy artillery. Finally sorceress should be based on their magic abilities, vastly enhancing them and bringing them to godly levels.

I found something quite odd...If Karzoth (the guy who wielded Demonslayer), Thralni and Scrionth? And two other guys led the first expedition to Avernum, would they have no idea what's awaiting them? I don't remember if any of Karzoth's lieutenants had the ability to enchant weapons with the power to obliterate demons. So would that not mean Demonslayer is a normal blade??? Or was Karzoth was originally named Demonslayer (Karzoth means Demonslayer) and he created the blade beforehand. If not, isn't it just a really finely crafted blade? How does the lore go?

Now that I think about it...all of the creatures we see in GeneForge are creations. Where are the regular animals? As in the ones that through the theory of evolution, had evolved? I know I can't see fish because Jeff has not implemented graphics to see flopping fish and stuff in the water. However, it seems that all life is nothing but humans and creations. You can't possibly expect me to believe humans were the only things there, until they found they can create life.

Ahh Avernum, the good old' pit of fire where we have our adventures slaying demons with a rusty sword, blasting walking lizard men, and brawling with cat people. Over the course of the six games (technically, only four showed the main Avernum map), I have realized how small Avernum actually is. Don't get me wrong. Avernum 4 and 6 really defined it's enormous proportions and last longer than the first game and second game (surprisingly). However, weren't the Avernum tunnels suppose to be mainly undiscovered? I'm not sure where I read this, but is there more of Avernum? Perhaps there's another cave system under another continent on the surface. To be honest, I don't even know where the heck the map of Avernum 5 is suppose to be. It hardly matches the main land..err caves of Avernum. So is that it for Avernum? or is there more?

I just remembered (forgive me if the following information is wrong, I haven't been in Spiderweb Forums or Site until I knew that Avernum: EftP was out for iPad) was there not a discussion about a new town? I swear I saw something that said Jeff was putting in a new town. However, because of my lack of memories of the original Exile series, I don't remember the towns a single bit. Did Jeff post a new town in the game? Or did he scrap that idea?

Well actually, no. Just because your a soldier of Avadon doesn't mean your free to roam does it? I mean come on, that removes the charm of Spiderweb Games. Make it so that at least at one point (level 20-ish maybe?), we might get a "special permit" or something to free roam. Alternately, we could have the Heart, or Eye promotion earlier than the ending of the game. So if we rank up to an Eye, we get to explore, as long as we fulfill tasks for Avadon. If we get to a Heart we get to see more hidden and advanced areas. It's not like the Hierarchy will limit us, there's possibility in that idea.

I personally disliked Avadon. The only Spiderweb Game I disliked. The game was too linear, the side quests were numerous. I should be able to travel to other areas without having to finish a main quest. The charm of spiderweb games is that I can sneak into a Fortress with a level ten character and elude several level fifty epic monsters. In Avadon, I usually meet the level standards of the game because I do most of the quests since there's nothing else to do. I would've given the quests and storyline a 3/5, because it was too linear. However it still surprised me and kept me going. The portal function also limited the game. There were only a couple of areas, and I could only get four-ish maps in the THREE regions. I hope that's removed and we can have the GeneForge map system. It's okay, yes Jeff you can have portals that require to be unlocked. However could we explore more? It feels like Avadon was done the day before it was released. The lack of maps seems to be made up for the size of the maps. (This is my assumption. The maps seem bigger) The exploration and traveling is a 2/5, I think I see what Jeff is going for. But I don't really agree with it right now. Also, where's the stealth and diplomacy? Avernum, escape from the pit may not had have it. But the map was so large and vivid, I was buried into the lore and my anticipation to obtain Demonslayer. In Avadon, there's no secret race that was hidden for generations. There's no mission impossible - like missions, (SPOILER ALERT: When you are chased to Beraza Woods by the duke, that didn't count). For a world filled with political elements, and a faction with several powerful infiltrators (eyes) and political power, there wasn't any sweet talking involved. I want to be able to have a leadership skill, so I can discover my possibilities. As frustrating as the existence of the skill is, I still think it should have been included. The stealth and diplomacy and alternate solutions is a 1/5, I think everything you do is the same. You may be able to side with Tawon or Avadon, but it could be way better. Finally, the combat system. Another aspect of Spiderweb is that it's dungeons and dragons like. You can build a custom character. Whether you want a paladin, a ninja wizard, or a completely stealth and sweet talk adventurer then do as you please. Although the point assignment system is now gone, the new talent trees has replaced them. I say! They are horrendous! At least give us additional skill points! The talent trees were completely limited! It's either, have flashy offensive skills, supportive skills in exchange for your offensive capabilities, or just auto attack and have mad resistances. The Avernum tree was done very well. Not only does it give a strategic sense of build skills, but you could specialize in either pole or melee weapons and choose between tanking or damage dealing. This was amazing. Even the new trait system was fantastic, having traits every few levels was a real good help. I don't die unnecessarily just because I spent my exp levels to get a high boost at the beginning of the game. But then I get killed frequently because I sacrificed my levels. The combat of Avadon was a 2/5, it's good to have class limited skills. That brings a sort of feeling, but I was limited to what skills I should've gotten. Since pick locking was part of the Sorceress and Shadowwalker who were both high damage dealers. In order to access free loot, I had to sacrifice my damage. Or cheat and rework my skills just to get my items. Avadon was a 2/5 or a 3/5, the game just barely passed. It was okay, and I enjoyed it. However it could be better. I really hope Avadon II is amazing, because Spiderweb is amazing.

I've achieved all of the medals except for the Dread Curse. Where can I get afflicted? (Wow this thread would sound awkward in real life)

So what sort of creation are available, I've only known this evolutionary chain. Fyora -> Cryoa Thahd -> Charged Thahd And that's all the creations I've done, can we do something like Drakon -> Ur-Drakon or Gazer -> Eyebeast?

I don't get why Canisters make you so angry. I know from the description they're like small doses of geneforge in a jar literally. But how come it doesn't make you feel other emotions? Like strange depression or etc.

I've seen the maps for GeneForge 1,2, and 3. However I don't have a map for GeneForge 4, and more importantly GeneForge 5. How come Avernum has all of the maps, yet we don't have any for GeneForge? Could someone bring me to a link?

We all love Avernum don't we? We know those cheesy drawn pictures from the original Avernum, where we have medieval like drawings. It looked like some sort of old scroll and that gave a strange and bold new twist. However the Art drastically improved in GeneForge where the art was almost completely realistic, but not quiet. We finally reached the age of GeneForge 5 and GeneForge 6, we see beautiful and splendid art. GeneForge 5 had amazing 3D art that completely brought it to life. Avadon was nice illustration but nothing too epic... And then I find this picture.... http://www.gamersgate.com/img/screenshots/DD-AEFPM/294922_avernum_grahhoth_endgame_medium.jpg Look at it! I mean just look at it! It's just EPIC! I feel like we've entered a new age of Spiderweb Games. I want to see more Avernum pictures like this (GeneForge needs to stick with 3D art), there should be a book about Avernum. Can someone volunteer to write fan fiction? This is amazing.

But wait, Spiderweb Games allow you to become undecided. Did Jeff along with the freeroam just removed that too?

Well I've played Avadon there will be typo or mistaken facts. There are currently two major factions, Avadon and Tawon. RedBeard is probably NOT going to show in the second game. I mean the only way i see it is that RedBeard dies of old age, or finally gets assassinated for the prologue in the next game. Or else, is us killing RedBeard really Canon? Dheless on the other hand MIGHT, and we could meet him. I think because Avadon is a trilogy, we need to have chances to start as a servant of Avadon AND a farlander and we can be obscure at the end like GeneForge (But GeneForge had five games). Now I want to open a few questions for a discussion here. Which Faction would you stick to? Avadon or Tawon? Or would you wish to join a third party? If you support Avadon we will insure complete peace in Lynaeus. With our power we are able to block off the Farlanders and ensure absolute power, through our powerful merciless hands, our cunning and secretive eyes, our trusted and powerful hearts, and our immortal keepers. United we are Avadon, united we keep peace of the Pact. As long as we stand, we become the very center of the Pact and bring peace across Lynaeus. However we are ruthless and murderous, Rebels will always come and conflict must be resolve time by time. It is only a matter of time when Avadon someday MUST fall. If you support the Tawon or Dheless or whatever major faction is opposing Avadon, you will overthrow the cold hearted Avadon. Forever have they denied our problems, and let chaos and destruction run across the lands. They only care of uniting the In land nations together. But join the Tawon and we can smash Avadon to bits of pieces, and create the true power of Lynaeus, a great united country where we can bring true justice to the unworthy and unlawful. But...can we truly succeed? Avadon has near unlimited resources, they have many upper hands on us. And even if we overthrow Avadon, what is the chance another group will try to take the power before we do? We are just Rebels, there are more tyrants and dictators on the horizon. Neither, maybe neither. Avadon is ruthless and stone-cold we can't serve them (Well SOME of us at least), and Tawon is weak so far, how will some broken "Empire" defeat Avadon? So a sub-question, who will take the power over Lynaeus? Will there be a third party? Like the Trakovites in between the Shapers and Rebels? The Future of Lynaeus may come close, so what are your choices?

FINALLY! IT'S HERE! Praise the Lord Vogel! Praise the Epic Fantasy Reborn that is AVERNUM! ESCAPE FROM THE PIT! (And now i shall steal a song from HarryPatridge) Holy [censored]! What is this? Made in god's very flames Do mine eyes, tell me lies? A new Avernum game? Times is nigh! I must fly! Venture forth on my quest! Goodbye Ma! Goodbye Pa! Goodbye Girlfriend's Breasts! I'll be off! Azeroth! Catch you later Hyrule! I'll be gone Albion! I'm no longer your fool! Other crap filled the gap whil i waited to begin. The ADVENTURE of my LIFE In the land of AVERNUUUUM!

You could always buy an iPad to get Avadon and Avernum Escape from the Pit. As for the rest of the games, you could always buy a mac (If that's what you using sorry i'm skimming this). If you don't want to spend that much cash, then i'd say you should upgrade your computer so the game fits. Try at least one of the installments, if you fancy improved gameplay then try GeneForge 5, Avernum 6, Avadon, and Possibly Avernum : Escape from the Pit.

Avadon was closed world, but you'll COMPLETELY love the GeneForge and Avenum series i will guarantee. If i'm wrong, take my life in Avadon and scorch me with a Cold Lance. GeneForge is a mixture of Sci-Fi and Medieval themes. You are a shaper, a Mage with the power to create life. Your secrets have been kept from outsiders who would use this power against you. But you must make the choice, will you protect your secrets, or will you use them to topple the shaper faction? In this game you can use stealth, diplomancy and other factors not just hack and slash like Avadon (Which was pretty much all it was, Spider web games are suppose to be Diplomatic and not just hack and slash so i'm disappointed in that). Avernum is the remake of the first game Spiderweb made. Similar to GeneForge, it is a different game style where you can traverse the subterranian world of Avernum, a pit for criminals, the disliked, the rebels, and people who just don't fit in. As a citizen of Avernum (Or a member of the overworld empire in the fifth game) you must decide what the gate of Avernum will be. Unlike Geneforge you can create four different characters in party. This game would like medieval Fallout in a way, but mixed in with some dungeon crawling-like elements. A more different battle system but with the same aspects as geneforge it's another strategical action packed game.

So first i'll begin this thread with my appreciation with the GeneForge series. Well Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim has been released and i go it, it was pretty fun, and because i'm a guy who looks high graphical, epic story enriched, magical and powerful realistic combat, and the chance to experience the world of the game. I never thought i'd become a fan of Spiderweb. It's probably been a few years now since i got my first GeneForge game. I opened up the game and said, "oh wow i'm probably not going to like this at all". But as i look at the intro, it was just stunning. The lore of the game was just so, epic and breath-taking. When my first Shaper and character "Soul Mage" walk onto the fallout - like rpg terrain i couldn't be impressed. The clumsy controls and annoying inventory system, i thought the story would've been the only thing that gave the game a 6/10 in my opinion that far. Then i started to realize how much adventure i had been missing. This was a new experience for me, as a newbie i would always die or had to use dbugkill to get through difficult areas. But when i finally got my Drayk i wreck havoc on Sucia. The second game came out and i wanted to get it, and found a rich new world opening up to me. More adventure and more lore just sprung out of no where, and the sheer awesomeness of the game just overwhelmed me. During my younger years i missed out on GF3 and GF4 (But then i got it later when i got a job). And the final installment came to me, GeneForge 5 Overthrow. Whew! It was a long journey for Soul Mage, his blade smeared in blood and his hands still burning from the amount of firebolts he casted, and his body still empty from creating legions of Drakons. As a benevolent True Neutral kind of person i experienced the Rebel ending of Ghaldring, and the Shaper ending of Alwan. But then i realized...that was it, geneforge is finished. I've completed the saga, but what now? GeneForge was the most epic thing I've experienced. I got Avadon but it's more close world than GeneForge so i did not like that, and i might get Avernum Escape from the Pit..but is it any good? Is GeneForge really finished? I mean, that was it? I think i might need more GeneForge. I just loved how i could slash and hack my way through weaklings, blast and kill powerful monsters, command huge dragon humanoids, but if i was too weak i could just talk my way out of it. This game was...perfect. I loved Skyrim because it had really good action, i loved Fallout because the game was just enchanting, and i loved several games which i forgot that had lots of smooth talking involved. But GeneForge, it combined all the aspects i loved into one science fiction medieval fantasy game! So is GeneForge just ended? Is there a way to get more of it? Cause it was a huge part of my life, and it gave me the inspiration to become a writer. But really, should i move on and try Avernum? Or will a new GeneForge game be a possibility? Maybe even Blades of GeneForge? (I have been answered no to Blades of GeneForge, but still)

So Jeff pardon me if i'm rushing you here, but it's December and the Mac version of Avernum:Escape from the Pit doesn't seem to be coming. Is it come like in Christmas or something? Because i kind of want to see some progress. I mean i don't own a Mac, and i'm probably not going to get one any time soon. I have an iPad and a PC however, but it's kind of crushing my hopes that Avernum hasn't been released yet. 26 1/4 days left from 2011 i hope it will be released soon (At least i'll play some of at my friend's dorm who has a mac). Again pardon me if you are actually reading this and if i'm rushing you, or even offending you. but i'm the impatient kind of person.

Odd, when I used a keyboard it didn't respond. Same as some flash games on the Internet, iq this connected as a problem?? Or is it coincidence

Aww...The Movement in the Avernum engine is horribly difficult, I keep ramming into walls and jump off cliffs by accident.

Blades of Avernum II, so ikinda think the current engine is kinda crappy as it uses the first trilogy's engine and it was really difficult for me to use cause it seem to be all drag mouse, did you know I actually lost track of time trying to open a door and found o wasted an hour of my life?

Thanks, I can't upload the image cause i'm on vacation and I'm doing this on my iPad. D:

Hmmm....17 posts till Watcher........ Post on ALL THE THINGS!!!!!