Rotghroth Rhapsody RCCCL Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Speaking of Asimov, I'm reading a collection of his short stories right now. Course, that could of gone into the What are you reading thread, but this topic is about topic drift, here's for derailing it into a clone topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Ah, Nightfall. A great short story, a good novel, and a passable scenario. —Alorael, who admits to liking the scenario more than he should have, maybe, just for its inspiration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Karoka Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Wow...this thread went from a temporary UBB mess-up to randomness, then to the universe, then to some other thing I forgot about, then back to the universe, and now books. What an accomplishment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Originally Posted By: Karoka Wow...this thread went from a temporary UBB mess-up to randomness, then to the universe, then to some other thing I forgot about, then back to the universe, and now books. What an accomplishment! It's the SW way. If you're commenting on it, it prolly means you forgot to leave your sanity at the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Karoka Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Originally Posted By: null Originally Posted By: Karoka Wow...this thread went from a temporary UBB mess-up to randomness, then to the universe, then to some other thing I forgot about, then back to the universe, and now books. What an accomplishment! It's the SW way. If you're commenting on it, it prolly means you forgot to leave your sanity at the door. -Sees that I still have sanity- Oh yeah...forgot about that. -Takes off sanity and puts it at the door- Taken care of...wait...where am I? Who are you? Why do you look like me? -gasp- What was that?! A spider! Hi! Spider: Hello! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Frozen Feet Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity ... In which case it would recollapse in a 'Big Crunch' before even light had time to traverse it completely... Isn't the current evidence more in favor of accelerating universe right now? According to it, there won't be a crunch, but a slow freeze as particles drift further and further away from each other until no force can reach over the gap and the universe becomes just one sparse cloud of dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 That's the current observation, but dark matter and dark energy are weird stuff. There could be a Big Crunch anyway. —Alorael, who is not a cosmologist. Consult a licensed professional before buying crunch insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Rowen Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I just watched Futurama episode where they went so far into the future that they came back to the beginning and kept going around from the big bang back to the end of the universe back to the big bang. The universe is just a big repeating circle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Frozen Feet Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I recall reading a Finnish sci-fi short story with the same premise. In it, they had a ramjet fusion engine that allowed them to get near lightspeed; abusing time dilation, they traveled to the end of the universe, and survived the turn of the cycle to return to Earth. They got back just moments after next permutation of their ship was launched. Unfortunately, the ancient engine of their ship called it quits and blew up, so they all died. The story is told from PoV of investigators browsing through the ship's logs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Originally Posted By: Frozen Feet Unfortunately, the ancient engine of their ship called it quits and blew up, so they all died. So you might say that that's how the story... Finnished? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Frozen Feet Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Actually, it starts from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Well played, good sir. Well played . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Karoka Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Originally Posted By: Frozen Feet I recall reading a Finnish sci-fi short story with the same premise. In it, they had a ramjet fusion engine that allowed them to get near lightspeed; abusing time dilation, they traveled to the end of the universe, and survived the turn of the cycle to return to Earth. They got back just moments after next permutation of their ship was launched. Unfortunately, the ancient engine of their ship called it quits and blew up, so they all died. The story is told from PoV of investigators browsing through the ship's logs... What's the story called and where can I get it??? If it's not in English, never mind. And if Finnish is English, then slap me and tell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 ...Finnish is the language of Finland. It isn't English. But it might be available in translation! —Alorael, who supposes the story could be a Finnish story written in English. Stranger things have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Frozen Feet Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I'm afraid the story hasn't been translated to English. it's from a collection of short stories called "Kristalliruusu" (Crystal Rose) by Risto Isomäki. The story itself is called "Maailmankaikkeuden ympäri 80 vuodessa" (Around the universe in 80 years). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 The current assessment of cosmological evidence is indeed that the expansion of the universe is accelerating. This suggests that the universe is not closed but open, so there will be no Big Crunch. But cosmology has flipped back and forth on this one over the last few decades, so it's worth keeping the alternatives in mind. There's some major stuff we don't understand about this. For instance, dark matter and dark energy. Dark matter is supposed to be more or less ordinary matter (though possibly composed of particles not yet detected in our accelerators) that just happens not to emit light (of any frequency), either because it's electrically neutral, or because it's just not hot enough to glow. There's nothing mysterious about it at the level of basic principle, but it's kind of frustrating that there could be one heck of a lot of stuff — maybe a large majority of the matter in the universe — that we can't see. We can only infer its existence indirectly, from observing situations where detectible matter seems to be experiencing more gravity than other detectible matter could be generating. Unfortunately it's hard to rule out the alternative that it's just that our theory of gravity is wrong. Dark energy is a more basic and mysterious effect: a hypothetical alternate channel of gravity, which becomes more important over longer distances, and which could either tend to shrink space in, or stretch it out. Our observations currently seem most compatible with there being a fair amount of the stretching out kind of dark energy, making the universe as a whole tend to keep expanding. Dark energy could be an exotic effect of some as yet undiscovered, but more or less standard, form of matter. Or it could just be an intrinsic property of spacetime itself. Dark energy and dark matter both sound kind of like fudges, stuff just made up to account for discrepancies with theory. In a sense they are, but in a sense they're not. The problem is that, a priori, lots of both could exist, as far as we can tell. We just don't have any good way to test anything about them. So it would be much nicer for science if they happened not to exist. But unfortunately it looks as though we aren't that lucky. Dark energy in particular has an unfortunate history. The possibility that gravity might include this effect was first noticed by Einstein. Using his own general theory of relativity, he was one of the first to consider the shape of the universe as a whole. He found that it was impossible, within his original theory, to have a static universe. The universe as a whole had to either be expanding or contracting (and in particular there had to have been a Big Bang). He found this philosophically unacceptable, so he found a way to change his own theory, by inserting the effect we now call dark energy. With this addition, an eternal universe became possible. But Einstein's eternal universe was then shown to be unstable, according to his revised theory. And then it was observed by astronomers that the universe really seemed to be expanding. Einstein kicked himself for the rest of his life. He could have predicted cosmology from pure theory, which would have been an impressive addition even to his stack of achievements. But he blew it. On the other hand, from a modern point of view he did make a major cosmological discovery, by pointing out the possibility of dark energy. Maybe for him it was just a fudge, but it may well be real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Bang Bang? I believe you mean Horrendous Space Kablooie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Karoka Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I thought the Sun revolves around the Earth because the Sun is made of fire and gas...and a bunch of other stuff. I thought that since it has no mantle and surface, it can't produce a magnetic field. Isn't it just a big ball of fire and gas? Then the Sun should revolve around the Earth. Unless dang Jupiter wins the gravity fight. (I'm working on what little I know about the solar system, so please don't think I'm an idiot. Thanks.) I also thought the Big Bang was just a loud noise someone made that annoyed Mr. Creator (or Ms./Mrs., for all we know.) and he accidentally drew a line in the Paper of Existence, thus the beginning of the universe, space, and matter. And don't forget the pizza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I'll ignore the Sun revolving around the Earth comment as a few centuries out of date and move on. The sun is mostly made of hydrogen, but stars are mostly ionized gases, or plasma, rather than anything like hydrogen gas as it exists frequently on Earth (though there are normal gases as well). The Sun, like other stars, is a hydrogen fusion furnace. The presence of large amounts of plasma generates a magnetic field. In any case, planetary and stellar orbit have very little to do with magnetism. They're largely dictated by gravity, which is in turn dependent on mass. Jupiter is several hundred times the mass of Earth. The sun is about a thousand times more massive than Jupiter, and is, in fact, more than 99% of the total mass of the solar system. The sun is, in other words, really big and really heavy. —Alorael, who can't tell how much of his response is to trolling and how much is to actual questions. He'll err on the side of hilarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Originally Posted By: Karoka I thought the Sun revolves around the Earth because the Sun is made of fire and gas...and a bunch of other stuff. I thought that since it has no mantle and surface, it can't produce a magnetic field. Isn't it just a big ball of fire and gas? Then the Sun should revolve around the Earth. Unless dang Jupiter wins the gravity fight. (I'm working on what little I know about the solar system, so please don't think I'm an idiot. Thanks.) I also thought the Big Bang was just a loud noise someone made that annoyed Mr. Creator (or Ms./Mrs., for all we know.) and he accidentally drew a line in the Paper of Existence, thus the beginning of the universe, space, and matter. And don't forget the pizza. I seriously don't know what to make of this... ... ... ... ... --- ... ... --- ... ... --- ... ... --- ... Anyway a lot of gas means a lot of mass (Jupiter is also made solely of gasses as far as we know) which means a lot of gravity which means to make something as big as the sun of gas it has to have a very extremely incrediously large amount of gas which means proportionally mass which then creates a strong gravitational (henceforth gravitic) field. Now for the mag field, the sun emits large amounts of light (a.k.a radiation) which is, in effect, a response to a sharp change in the electromagnetic field of its source, so ipso facto it has to have a mag field even if a minuscule one (which it probably isn't). If something revolves around something else then you can say they are both revolving around each other, however if you put the earth at the center all the other planets make a real funny dance around it, while if you put the sun in the center the planets are aligned in tidy rings (except for 2 I don't seem to recall, maybe pluto and neptune?). What religion are you from????? It has to be relatively new if one of it's pinnacles is pizza? Does it have anything to do with quest for glory? or maybe TMNT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Quote: Now for the mag field, the sun emits large amounts of light (a.k.a radiation) which is, in effect, a response to a sharp change in the electromagnetic field of its source, so ipso facto it has to have a mag field even if a minuscule one (which it probably isn't). More to the point, the gas is hot, and in fact hot enough to be ionized (so it is a plasma). This means that there are electric charges running around loose, and moving charge necessarily creates a magnetic field. Since charge is also deflected by magnetic fields, you get very complex motion where energy is shared between the moving particles and the magnetic fields (the study of this is magnetohydrodynamics). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Karoka Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Originally Posted By: Alorael I'll ignore the Sun revolving around the Earth comment as a few centuries out of date and move on. I can turn religious on this subject, but I don't think I want to. It's too much effort, and scanning through a big book is not my every day thing. Originally Posted By: Erasmus What religion are you from????? It has to be relatively new if one of it's pinnacles is pizza? I go to the Church of The Flying Spaghetti Monster every 93.10580 hours. (Thanks to ADoS for converting me) I eat my pizza with spaghetti and meatballs, thus the pinnacle of pizza. Just kidding. But seriously. Pizza has been in existence since before galaxies formed. Some galaxies are formed from these pizzas. Think of OS1056, other known as the Spaghetti Galaxy. (DOO YOYR REESERCH!) If you look at a cubic simulation of the universe, you'll notice that the universe was formed in spaghetti knots. As they came together, they formed the first galaxies, made of cheese, spaghetti sauce, and the most deadly of all, Galactic Meatballs. The Galactic Meatballs are much like black holes; they suck things in then spit them out. When the cheese and spaghetti sauce is spit out from the Galactic Meatball, it is compressed into the first pizzas, without the bread. But eventually, Mr. Creator saw the Galactic Meatballs as annoying, so he erased them all, leaving the eraser markings. Those eraser markings then formed stars and planets, which then formed galaxies that we know of existence today. We are very far away from where this all took place, so we won't find any cheese out there just yet. *The Church of The Flying Spaghetti Monster has nothing to do with what I just said, I just thought the words 'Flying' and 'Spaghetti' would explain it.* Originally Posted By: Erasmus except for 2 I don't seem to recall, maybe pluto and neptune? I thought it was just Pluto that does an elliptical revolution. That goes to show how little I know about our solar system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Originally Posted By: Karoka I thought it was just Pluto that does an elliptical revolution. That goes to show how little I know about our solar system. All planets have elliptical orbits (well, virtually elliptical). Technically, a circular orbit is also elliptical, but none of the planets in our solar system have this. Really, Kepler's First Law says this quite plainly. Pluto was simply the most irregular planet to orbit the sun. However, now that it has been demoted, there are plenty of other weird orbits with which it can be compared. Just look at comets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Originally Posted By: Carington x2 I'll ignore the Sun revolving around the Earth comment as a few centuries out of date and move on. strictly speaking a geocentric frame of reference for the solar system isn't invalid, it just adds a whole lot more mathematical complexity for no good reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody waterplant Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Originally Posted By: Lilith Originally Posted By: Carington x2 I'll ignore the Sun revolving around the Earth comment as a few centuries out of date and move on. strictly speaking a geocentric frame of reference for the solar system isn't invalid, it just adds a whole lot more mathematical complexity for no good reason Right on! Saying that the Sun comes up everyday is not untrue, despite it not being actuality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Originally Posted By: Lilith strictly speaking a geocentric frame of reference for the solar system isn't invalid, it just adds a whole lot more mathematical complexity for no good reason The greeks actually built a machine to calculate all those complex mathematics. And its surprisingly small Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Originally Posted By: Lilith Originally Posted By: Carington x2 I'll ignore the Sun revolving around the Earth comment as a few centuries out of date and move on. strictly speaking a geocentric frame of reference for the solar system isn't invalid, it just adds a whole lot more mathematical complexity for no good reason It isn't mathematically invalid, but it is physically invalid. As soon as you start talking about magnetism and gases and orbits, if the Earth is in the middle, you're wrong. —Alorael, who supposes he should except the case when you're describing the orbits of Earth's satellites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I think Lilith is right on this one. You can always take any reference frame. Motion is relative. The geocentric frame is awkward for computing orbits in, but it's good for making straightforward comparisons with observations from Earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I suppose orbits are motion as a consequence of gravity. Objection retracted. —Alorael, who still thinks that there are grave problems with anyone who is not Sherlock Holmes talking about the planets orbiting the Earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Speaking of sciencey crap, I was wandering the local middle school aimlessly when I stumbled upon this poster for a science project hung on the wall. Looking closer, I lost all faith in Whitehall's middle-schoolers. Click to reveal.. (I might have cried a little) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 They may have been (benefit of the doubt, here) speaking in terms of placement and not chemistry. The zinc is literally in the copper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Originally Posted By: Master1 They may have been (benefit of the doubt, here) speaking in terms of placement and not chemistry. The zinc is literally in the copper. why would a policeman eat zinc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Originally Posted By: Lilith Originally Posted By: Master1 They may have been (benefit of the doubt, here) speaking in terms of placement and not chemistry. The zinc is literally in the copper. why would a policeman eat zinc I think it depends on what kind of zinc it is - if it was from the kitchen he'd probably already eaten everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody RCCCL Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Maybe he had a really bad cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I've heard that pirates will sometimes force captives to choose between eating a plug of zinc, and walking the plank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody waterplant Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Is there a surplus of zinc in the Gulf of Aden region? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I think that's it. It's toxic, and they have too much of it around. They have to get rid of it one way or another, or suffer the consequences themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Locmaar Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Originally Posted By: Nikki. I think it depends on what kind of zinc it is - if it was from the kitchen he'd probably already eaten everything else. Eating a kitchen zinc is something I'd rather not contemplate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Execution can be fairly expensive. Plank-walking is especially problematic given Somalia's relative lack of forestry and the difficulty of hauling lumber around on small boats. Even if you reuse the wood, the fuel costs of transport are substantial. Forced zinc consumption, on the other hand, costs mere pennies. —Alorael, who hopes you're eating enough zinc in your kitchen. Wouldn't want to be deficient! Of course, you also don't want to be excessive, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Originally Posted By: Winter of Malcontent Execution can be fairly expensive. Plank-walking is especially problematic given Somalia's relative lack of forestry and the difficulty of hauling lumber around on small boats. Even if you reuse the wood, the fuel costs of transport are substantial. Forced zinc consumption, on the other hand, costs mere pennies. —Alorael, who hopes you're eating enough zinc in your kitchen. Wouldn't want to be deficient! Of course, you also don't want to be excessive, either. They can always just shove people off the boat, the plank is just an entertainment accessory (a.k.a. a prop) so the crew can enjoy the torment of the death walk (we are talking about pirates) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 The way I understand it, pirates making someone walking the plank is pure fallacy; they just tossed the victim overboard. Less entertaining, more efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Originally Posted By: Erasmus Originally Posted By: Winter of Malcontent Execution can be fairly expensive. Plank-walking is especially problematic given Somalia's relative lack of forestry and the difficulty of hauling lumber around on small boats. Even if you reuse the wood, the fuel costs of transport are substantial. Forced zinc consumption, on the other hand, costs mere pennies. —Alorael, who hopes you're eating enough zinc in your kitchen. Wouldn't want to be deficient! Of course, you also don't want to be excessive, either. They can always just shove people off the boat, the plank is just an entertainment accessory (a.k.a. a prop) so the crew can enjoy the torment of the death walk (we are talking about pirates) You all forgot the expensive sport of keel-hauling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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