alhoon

First part, soldiers: They are ranged/melee, in fact somewhat better in melee than combat. They get venom batons when their combat worthiness increases. works for new recruits. I.e. if you have a couple of soldiers with you for 3 levels and then you improved your soldiers significantly, you're better of letting the other ones go and getting new ones.

 

What you get out of setting routes for Serviles? It's the first step of a rather large quest line that I think is interesting (hence I put it in ). Once you have a base and have explored a bit the Dera Reaches a dialogue option opens up when you speak to your lieutenant (a servile).

It's more than "no definite answer" IMO since every class (including GF4 servile) could be there or Sorceress that wasn't anywhere.  In my opinion is "there's something to validate most reasonable answers"

4 hours ago, Huey, Dewey, and QE said:

The other name that gets tossed around a lot in this speculation is Shaper Monarch (from G4).  There are basically zero discrepancies with such a fit.

 

A sub-theory would be Shaper Monarch, who is also the Geneforge 3 PC.  This is speculative but it is one possible interpretation of the comments Greta and Alwan make about their former companion, when they are in G4.

 

 

 

Wait what?
Monarch could be the GF3 PC? But he's very old and has been in Sucia island...

 

Kian: Only 3 geneforges are mentioned in canon (which makes me wonder... no Geneforge in Geneforge 2?  But the Takers are promising me awesome power to dwarf the Barzites! Are they lying? (Cause Barzites mass produce canisters so if it's just canisters it's the same or less...) And if yes, why is half the gf2 stepped in deceit?

 

GF5 char being unimportant: Meh, the GF5 character lost his mind first and then got caught. Also, a lot of people leave hints they knew the player.

 

A new theory I just developed is that GF5 character could be a sorceress because the art shows a sorceress. So, perhaps (OK, we're crossing to improbability now, but it's not impossible), GF5 character is a Reshaped Agent Miranda. We see her dying in GF4 but we also see Alwan dying. GF5 Alwan mentions that she died, but what if she has survived, Vader-like if you want (not that Alwan survived in much better form) and was extensively ReShaped by the Drakons until she escaped and lost her mind (or vice versa).

I base that on... nothing except the art. But it is an intriguing, and improbable (but not impossible) theory.

 

 

Do you want minor spoilers? (Like where she is?)

 

 

Do you want major spoilers? (Like the discussion of who the player is?)

I was thinking to do that for the Barzites and I already have a quest to take down the Taker Leaders. I am not sure whether I will join the Awakened that I sympathize most with or the Takers that have the most power (Barzites and Shapers are not in the equation as I cannot ally with them).

 

PS. talking about endgame quests makes me kinda itchy. I've not talked to the Takers yet and after I do, I'll do some exploring before joining any faction.

True, but I would have to weaken the Takers.
Every Drayk I kill is one Drayk less to fight Litalia & co.

I don't rob everyone blind though... But I have ~15-16 essence pods. I find it boring to check every barrel or scourge the terrain for sellable things that would sell for 5-10 coins. I have stopped picking up javelins, steel javelins, thorns etc and even with the +10 str there's a limit of how many armors I can carry...

Well, about the half-dozen Drayks.

My puny Shaper with ~30-40 hp was going first, the long line of Vlish with 150+ hp following. If I was, like a reasonable person, last in the line and have threw protection and bless on my creations when I turned that corner, things would be different. But still, the Drayks have 350-360hp while Drayks I shape have like half that.

 

As of Equipment, I hardly do any quests or exploration at the time. I rush to meet the factions getting sidetracked only by some interesting areas I drop in (the Misfits) and doing quests that burn through my mind (trying to heal the disease or that servile-under-brainwash).

 

All in all, the reason I play on easy is exactly so I won't have to bother with equipment and grinding. I have my Vlish army, I do quests I find interesting, I rarely use canisters, so I expect the game to be as difficult as normal.

Vlish are very strong in this game again; my leveled up Vlish seem stronger than Drayks costing 1/3 of the essence (intelligence included).

Awesome.

Are they like my own creations, just unique or they have something to say or leave at some point? The poor abandoned Thand I got with me, got crazy and ran away, rogue, in a chain of events in the mines.

Disclaimer: Big post that is more a rumbling of thoughts as I was playing the game and throwing them in a txt than a structured text that serves any purpose other than me talking loudly about this and that. Parts of this post may contradict earlier parts as my thoughts shift and I am near certain later posts will contradict this one.

Got to the Taker Toll road. 4 Drayks attacked me on sight. there may have been more out of sight.
Talk about overkill... I was killed by the first blast. As a note, I practically can't hit tier 4s with my creations (like having 5% -15% with my creations, under blessing). I am level 21 and they are level 22 (Except my terror Vlish that is level 28 and still has about the same hit chance as my lvl 22 Vlish)
I should have remained with the misfits.

And Drayks I can made (I have Fire Shaping up to 6 with equipment and 2 levels of Drayk) are expensive and miss a lot and have like 30hp over my Vlish. Really not worth it. I wasted perhaps 5400 coins.

 

Speaking about the misfits: The Eye keeps them under very rigid control that impresses my Shaper. Taking control of the Drayks to stop them from attacking me, freezing serviles allowing only their eyes to move, putting disloyals to cages to die... I mean, that Gazer sounds more like a Shaper-ideology creature: no canisters (so far), no torturing creations to keep them in line, rigid control and ruthless suppression of creation dissent but still a mis-Shaped Drakon is allowed to live.

 

It is not rare in later games to find Gazers controlling creations. But Melancon Eye tells me that he was also surprised to be able to do it. Is it rare? Or since gazers are brand new here... they didn't know they could control creations?

 

And he says something interesting: "I thought only humans and sometimes serviles could do that" (that= control creations). No mention of Drakons and... what? He knows of Serviles that can control creations? I thought they were rare as a roc's teeth before the Southforge. I haven't seen any in GF2 so far. And the one able to do it in GF5 that I met, she had been Shaped by Rawal to be able to do it, thanks to the control tool.
Frankly I thought that Shaping Serviles were an oddity allowed in the game just for the benefit of the player.

I find funny the "The foul Takers made my kind, very few of us since we're hard to make" So, Gazers were mistrusted by the Rebellion from the -very start-... I thought that started later.
Of course, the best part was "Then they cast me out". "Why?" "Well, they didn't actually I left because they would try to kill me. And now I will take revenge!" [for the non-casting out desertation for allegedly wanting to kill him]
Ah, I love gazers. I wish we could have more discussions with gazers.

Now, question please: he gave me a quest to kill the Taker Boss Syros that made him (haven't made that guy/gal/drayk/drakon). Unless I miss something, the missfits are not Barzite-minded or Awakened-minded. They do seem close in thinking with the Shapers but any loyal Shaper would kill the Gazer despite them both agreeing that rigid control is required.
What are they? A pseudo-faction? A contra-rebellion like the cryodrayks of GF4?

Ahh... it keeps getting better. I found a servile feeling depressed for not having a Shaper leash around his mind and I get a text that most "proper" creations feel hopeless and lost without a Shaper holding their puppet strings. That's IMO similar to addict your serfs to opium so they won't leave despite the cruel treatment.
And most interesting of all: I got the Misfit servile to follow me. Because he heard that I am just and I fight my kind (I am)
Do those NPCs talk like Greta and Alwan?

 

8 hours ago, Nim said:

You are putting way too much thought into small stuff like this barzahl shaper/guardian thing. Jeff forgot the whole second shaper continent and thus we are now stuck with terrestria

 

 

What second Shaper continent? Terrestia could be said to have two continents, East and bulwark of the Rebellion and West and fortress of evil Shapers, connected by some land.

 

There were more continents? Aside of 2-continent Terrestia? Never heard of that.

 

But yes, I think most of us realize at the back of our minds that the various inconsistencies are just inconsistencies and we're doing mental gymnastics to rationalize them.

So, I will try to explain the non-Terrestia Continent.

 

Once upon a time, Lying Zakary the Deceiver wanted more money to waste on his growing gambling habit. So he invented a whole new continent and tried to sell tickets to there to outsiders, shipping them mostly to Sucia island. He had a running contract with the Solai, that they would stop anyone from leaving and if a Shaper even approached the place, they would sink his boat. The Council didn't investigate too far on that since Sucia was barred.

It worked well for a time. But one Shaper made it back from Sucia.

So Zakary in his efforts to hide his duplicity jumped to the task, even in his advanced age, to go to Sucia and help purge the place from scum-victims  rogue creations. He even got a charismatic Shaper on the fold, by telling people he's a Guardian.

 

The rest is history (+ half the reason for the fallout between Bazrahl and Zakary was Zakary gambling away the council's and the Bazrite resources).

3 hours ago, TheKian said:

 

Also, regarding tilesets, I don't believe either of us mentioned where the data is output. It is put at the bottom of the text file the program outputs. Just copy-paste it at offset 48904 in the spreadsheet as you would the matrix.

 

You mean the tile-set choosing lines? If yes, then that's exactly where they should go.

 

As a note, the creatures and object data are not separated by comas. Is that intentional?

And I really hope you put the reaper turrets on neutral, else exploring a zone to see how it was implemented is going to hurt...  

Meh, I agree with most of what you say about how I post... I can't say that I agree with all of it (I am usually considered stubborn and hard to change my views)  but I agree with most of it.

 

Zakary is deceitful. I don't think I've seen any character many characters (to be more precise) as deceitful in the decades that I play games. Either through design, or author oversight anything he said or at least how I understood his words, everything he said was false. From the number of Guardians, that I suddenly found like 10 of them sitting in the mud behind a locked door, to the state of the colony, Barzahl's fate... even the sect Barzahl is in seems to be false. As Barzahl's sprite indicates and his talent to terraform a valley the Shapers have failed to transform for 20 years that he is not a Guardian but a Shaper. I have not fought him yet to be sure he'll fight with magic and not blade, but since he has a canistermad gorilla Guardian next to him, I would dare say (with my partial knowledge) that I expect him to be fighting as a GF2 Shaper (i.e. magic).

 

About the long posts... I know. I've been on the "speaks too much" \ "writes too much" side all my life.

 

As a note, since the change of the forums (before it was very hard for me to type here, had to write on notepad first and copy-paste) I often delete 1/5th of a post, deleting things I wanted to say to make a post shorter.
Many of the "long posts" you see are 20% shorter than what they started.

I hope you're right and I am blowing it out of proportion. It was a shock...

 

I apologize if I offended everyone by being a drama king, or if I made people feel uncomfortable by blowing things out of proportion.

 

thanks.

Oh... that's good.

 

A version that can take the terrain and ground etc map and put them in a 64x64 image like the

 

 

Gameman: I used the tool and it is very, very easy.

I think you're proficient with the spreadsheet.

 

Well, what you do is make a nice image on paint or whatever you want but using the colors of the color code.

At first, we start with something simple and crude

Let's say something like this:

 

- See how I avoided having walls disconnected. A wall pixel would look better if it ends up, down, left or right from another such pixel, not diagonicaly. There are no diagonical wall tiles in the game.

- It's not obvious in the image but I've used RGB color 16/16/16 (i.e. gray 16) for the outer natural wall because that's the "tall wall", but used black to frame the river.

- I also used a 64/64/64 (i.e. gray 64) for the wall that blocks the passage cause I want it to look like a nice big wall.

- Just to be sure I put 2 lines of trees. That is not required probably, I'm just weird.

 

As you can see... there are no doors, paths, items, creations... nothing. However the first image gives you a quick guide.

So, next step, I complete the empty rough map, putting floors, bridge and doors.

RGB 128/128/128 (I.e. gray 128) is worked floor. Tiles etc depending on the tileset.

RGB 128/64/64 is bridge. I put one

RGB 128/128/64 is doors. I put a few.

 

And I end up with this:

 

Now, if I wanted, I could run with this in the zonelab and add it in the game just to see how it looks like. For the purposes of this tutorial, I won't.

 

For the third step: we have a map but it has nothing on it.

Let's put in some creations and interactable items.

RGB 0/128/191 are creatures outside. On top of unworked ground.

RGB 128/0/128 are items on top of unworked ground

If I accidentally put one of those on a gray tile, the map would have a ground post there not tiles.

 

For the outdoors, I also added a few "terrain-outdoors" orange lines to represent a small farm. And a few creatures and a couple of objects on upper-right side that I will later change to a creature lair and a dead lootable body. Near what will be a farmer \ servile in the middle of the farm, I put a "terrain" that I will change to a cart later.

 

I put a couple of indoor items, objects and terrain in the buildings and passage fort too. Some will be tables, some will be beds, some will be debris

 

I end up with this:

 

Now the -rough- form of my zone is done. It has objects, terrain, walls, creations etc.

It has very little eye-candy. Litter, those decorative fires etc.

However, for the purpose of this tutorial, I will leave it as is.

 

Finally, I am ready to use Kian's awesome tool.

I put my image to Zonelab > zones folder.

I make absolutely sure it's the only zone in that folder! (we don't want two zones combined...)

I change the name to forest1Tutot so that the editor would pick forest tiles.

I press the "run"

I wait 1 second.

 

I have a txt file that has 64x64 matrices for me to put to ground and terrain, and generic object and creation entries at the places I had marked in the map.

 

I now can take the relevant pieces of info, copy-paste them to the spreadsheet of Blades of Geneforge and then edit the zone as I would for any other already made zone.

 

 

 

The above is an example that I made within a few minutes, not a well-thought, balanced, corrected and recorrected zone.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Triumph said:

 

 

Slarty made no accusations against your character, Alhoon. There's a profound difference between calling out someone's behavior and attacking their character. Saying "This thing you did was out of line" is not at all the same as saying "You're a bad person." Slarty criticized the way you were editing your posts, because it made them unreliable as way to follow the discussion. Thus, he concluded that if he wants to respond to anything you say, he needs to quote it, lest your propensity for editing eliminate the context of his responses or make them look unreasonable. He is not and has not attacked your character, at least not as I read his posts. That's NOT an accusation of evil motives or bad character. That's frustration that you're not following accept conventions of discussion of a forum like this (e.g. specifically, that people don't substantively alter their old posts but leave them to represent an accurate history of the discussion). You may want to seriously consider dialing back the editing; if it's not very simple grammatical corrections, and especially if there have been any posts at all since yours, perhaps don't edit and instead just make a new post.

 

Not direct accusations no. But there have been accusations that I did it on purpose to make him look like he made a mistake. That's not painting me in a bad light? 

I am not "someone who deliberately edits their comments after they have been replied to, then claims the people replying were wrong about what he said"

As a note, saying "you do bad things" is not far from "you're a bad person" despite being different. Apologies, but someone who deliberately does what I was accused of is deceitful.

And Slarty's post was not in the light of "this thing you did once was out of line", it was in the light of "You do things out of line, so I won't reply to you any more".

 

I have been a member of several forums, my posting-editing habits have never led anyone to call my posts deceitful. OK, my post changed since he posted so the half line of "90% [Litalia conclusions]" seemed partially wrong. Why the the first explanation to come to Slarty's mind was "Alhoon changed it to cover his butt!"  ? Why?

That's what saddens me most. And it's the one I have not received any answer at despite asking several times.

I think the answer is quite clear by the silence: Because Slarty had a low opinion about me to begin with.

 

The second thing that saddens me:

OK, let's assume that it was significantly different and then I changed my mind and edited it out realizing that it was erroneous. I am allowed to change my mind.

 Slarty hasn't seen the change and posted on the previous comment that within minutes I have realized it didn't belong there and deleted. I post "that's not what I said".

And suddenly here we are because the edit made 1 line of slarty's comment redundant. As if claiming that one of the most respected members was wrong in half a post would achieve anything.

The whole thread made toxic because I had to defend my actions and then I was asking of an explanation of why I should have to defend what should have been self-evident based on my history on this forum.

Who would even care about what I have to say about the game now? Would Slarty even care to reply to a question about "lvl 22 Vlish or Drayk"  or something now? Would you Triumph care to discuss the "what-ifs" of Litalia's history through your greater experience in the game and from your profession?

How can I ask people that have more or less showed they wouldn't mind if I disappeared from their forum and have low opinion on me my behavior for advice or engage them in academic discussion?

 

The third thing that saddens me:

The haste to assume I would be making deceitful changes to make someone seem wrong, paints in a different light the comments I've received from the "old guard" of this forum. Guys I am not antagonizing you! I am not attempting to make you seem bad, or to "win arguments" or something.

Where we disagree, I openly say so and say why and if I turn up wrong, I face the music. When you convince me, I give you a respectful nod.

 

Editing since others posted: I try to do that, but sometimes I do other things (like playing the game or speaking on the phone) while I have not finished an edit or addition. I may not even be aware that someone else posted. You may see posts of mine growing exponentially through time.

And again: Sure, you may call me sloppy poster. Acceptable. I am. You may say I write too long posts. I do. You may say that I shouldn't post unless I am sure the post reflects a position I have fully come to embrace and not developing positions. I disagree but no problem with such a suggestion.

To my defense, I often write a post on notebook before posting here since either my position is developing as I write the post or I may add other things in it.

 

Yes I will dial back the editing. After all there is a lingering threat of being called deceitful accused of deceitful changes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

58 minutes ago, As if a double hunt said:

It was.

 

And no, there's no edit history on posts.  One of many excellent reasons to think about posts before you make them.

 

It probably was just not clear enough.

 

And no, "a person that I've discussed in good faith for 2 freaking years suddenly saying I manipulate posts because of an edit" is not exactly a good reason.

There are posts in this thread that I've edited -over 6- times. You want to call me sloppy? That's fine, I can accept that.

 

But calling me deceitful?

Again, why on earth even if I was a deceitful poster, would I do that?! Why would I change a post after your reply and then say "I didn't say that, I said this"?

Did you ever see me shying away from mistakes I've made? From erroneous first conclusions?

 

Did you see me editing the posts I made in the beginning that clearly make me seem like an idiot, about how Barzahl was a champion of Creation Rights for example?! About the inability of the Shapers to fix the colony?

WHY ON EARTH would I do that for Litalia?

Again: WHERE DID THAT SUSPITION OVER MY CHARACTER CAME FROM? I have been here for 2 years, I have ~780 posts in this place and good 20% of them are false, while ~80% are multi-edited (Including this post). I keep asking and I keep not getting a reply. Why you had such an opinion on me? Based on what?

 

1 hour ago, As if a double hunt said:

(Also, for the record, they were less than an hour apart -- probably just a few minutes -- as it was showing 3 hours on all of those when I posted above.)

 

 

So... not "that far up" as the "No one expects posts that far up the thread to have their content completely changed" would imply... and it would be quite strange to have the whole content completely changed in a few minutes...

 

 

EDIT: While it's not important, since what saddens me is the "I see change, I assume alhoon manipulated the post instead of assuming he edited while I was typing"... does anyone remember what I said before the edit in the "90% confident" post? Was what I was written there a lot different from the edit, or the edit was for clarity?

5 minutes ago, As if a double hunt said:

Yes, and from now on, don't worry, I know to quote any post of yours I reply to in its entirity, because I can't trust that it won't randomly change when you decide to edit it.

 

Seriously?

You accuse me for manipulating a post  to make you, that until 10 minutes ago looked up to for your excellent work in balance and your knowledge of the game, seem like you made a tiny error...

and instead of an apology for drugging my name through the mud, you still preach that I am deceitful? Really?

 

Again:

Buddy, what have I ever done to you? Where did that attack and this low opinion come from? Because I made a few remarks that you disagree with?

Because I made a few comments about a game without consulting the whole lore and jumped to erroneous conclusions? Again, about a GAME?

What?

I don't understand what you're saying here, really.

 

Have I put something in the post, edited it when you were writing something before you posted that something and then later, I saw the post as you had it at the time, as I quoted it and I am somehow underhanded?

What have I posted*? Yes, I edit my posts. Sometimes (like a couple posts up) I complete lose the text on an edit!

 

And how would I know you have been writing your post based on something I really don't remember I had there? It was never there in your post...

Perhaps I had something that made you think that I was making conclusions on Litalia and then I edited it for clarity.

There's indeed a   small chance that I had accidentally posted something like "90% confident Litalia did X" (which I doubt but I don't remember) and changed it in the few minutes as you say that you took to post because I read it and said "meh, that's bizarre".

 

THAT DOES NOT EQUATE WITH ME CHANGING THE POST AFTER READING YOUR COMMENT OR MANIPULATING REPLIES TO ACCUSE YOU OF... ? (I am not really sure what I accused you for or what I would gain from that crap you said I pulled).

 

*Yes, I don't remember what I've posted and I don't think it was conclusions about Litalia that were eradicated suddenly while you were writing the post (and later accused me of manipulating it, no, I didn't read your mind cause that would be the only way to do what you accused me of initially).

 

 

Is there a way to see the post history? I really, REALLY don't remember what I've written.    

And you want proof of that?

 

The edit happened 4 hours ago While your post came 3 hours ago.

 

 

 

(Yes, I edited it to add the image)

 

After nearly 2 years that I am here, that we have discussed in good order even when we disagree, you accuse me of manipulating a post to make it seem you made an erroneous statement? Why would I do that? What could I possibly gain from that?

 

What is your problem with me? Seriously. What have I ever done here for you to assume that I would be pulling something like that?

6 minutes ago, feat. Ganrick said:

Dude.  Now I call foul.

 

Alhoon, your "90% confident" line was NOT about anything about the author's intention.  You just edited your previous post to make it look like that!  Let the record show everything that came after "90% positive that" was completely different until after I wrote my post.  (I mean, there is no record, but everyone CAN see the record of you editing that post after I replied to it.)

 

I am not going to engage with someone who deliberately edits their comments after they have been replied to, then claims the people replying were wrong about what you said.

 

 

Ahh... what?

Are you serious now or joking? Do you really believe that I would do that?

WHY would I do that?!?

I edit all my posts, all the time. I don't "manipulate" the evidence.

 

I really hope you're joking and that you don't have such low opinion on my character.

 

 

EDIT:

OH COME ON!

I lost a nice big reply.

In short:

 

A)The "90% confident" was about my assumption that the author is not concerned too much about minor contradictions on the story.

I wrote some nice explanation but it was big. Suffice to say that I am confident about that even if I haven't seen all content. GF2 even contradicts itself in some cases.

 

B )  I agreed with Triumph that I am scapegoating Litalia and mentioned I've admitted that in previous posts. (And mentioned I don't do that for real historical persons!)

 

 

8 hours ago, alhoon said:

TL;DR:

I agree 2/3 with you Triumph. But it still is convenient and feels nice for me to put it all on Litalia for reasons. I do this for the game not in real life.

 

 

I have agreed earlier with every person here that said "There's consistent evidence that Litalia was not an unstoppable force at that time but an apprentice\prospective. Do you really think Litalia would be leading an assault force that could take the force you have seen?"

and I said mostly "not really, no. I just say Litapocalypse for convenience".

 

I didn't agree that there's (to my limited knowledge) evidence to suggest that Litalia was not at the Drypeaks. There's perhaps not enough evidence that she was, but I didn't find so far any evidence she was not.

I also said that I consider GF4/5 more canonical than GF3 since they came later. So even if GF3 Litalia says indicating (not outright proving) that she was elsewhere during the Drypeak Purge, I would consider the GF4/5 to take precedence. Sure, if GF3 Litalia says something along the lines of "I wish I was at the Drypeaks while the Drakons were there, but alas I have not been there" then I would say GF5 Litalia lied.

 

2 hours ago, Owenmoz said:

 
Dude.. Did you seriously quit a game because your fave faction was ~Problematic TM~ in this one? The game doesnt paint the rebelion in a bad light. the game is simply from a shaper pov. same as g4 rebellion is from a rebel pov. g4 start also p much w a raid on the southforge citadel.  so its equality. in any case. finish the game, it has some necessary bits of story as well as one of the best characters in the series.

Of course I will!

I did all (well most) endings in GF5 and the Shaper ending in GF4. I am a completionist.

4 minutes ago, feat. Ganrick said:

If you still haven't finished G3 either... then you don't even have all the info on Litalia!  Dude.

 

Never said I do. All the examples of Litapocalypse I mentioned are from GF4-5 and I never professed to be an expert on Litalia-lore nor, I think, based the "Litalia did it!" on deep knowledge but was sincere and open that I base it on "convenience".

 

And as I explained above, I am 90% positive that the contradictions in her story by the author are not intentional since he doesn't seem to be too much concerned with the minutae of continuity and if a line here contradicts a paragraph written 5 years ago.