alhoon

I would like to say that with my shaper and suboptimally not raising Vlish-making and Shaping fast enough, the Vlish are awesome, head-and-shoulders better than other creations for their cost.

I had raised Fire Creations a bit because I like Drayks. But when in the 3rd Island I made my newly minted 24 lvl Drayk, with probably a hit bonus as it hits more often than Vlish... it was barely able to keep up with my 19-20 lvl Vlish. I kept the Drayk around for the extra hp and the Fire damage, but for a serious hit in essence that was limiting a bit my ability to cast boosting spells and heal.

At the time, I had 3 Vlish, both Greta and Alwan (don't ask why, I just liked them) and the Drayk. I was... 16th lvl? 17th? Something like that. Alwan and Greta despite the "Free" upgrades and being with me since the first island were worse than Vlish and the Drayk. They were essence free though and I wanted them for the dialogue. The Drayk had +100-110 hp on the Vlish, did a little more damage (fire) and ... was worse than the Vlish in close combat because it didn't have poison.
It also cost much more essence. With intelligence 2, it cost probably as much as 3 Vlish with intelligence 2. It was far less effective than two Vlish, let alone 3.
Frankly, powerwise, I would be better if I absorbed the Drayk right back, kicked Alwan or Greta out and got 3 Vlish. 3 newly minted Vlish. Or kept both NPCs and made 2 Vlish and kept the extra essence for group heals and blessings.

All the above are for normal difficulty and with creation-boosting equipment.

3 hours ago, Lord Backael said:

As a side note, because I know people are going to ask: why not get Vlish? In truth... I never really tried them out.

 

My logic was that Vlish started at a lower level than Searing Artila, and thus had a shorter relevance lifespan. They also say that the best form of crowd control is death, so the acidic properties of the Searing Artila's attack seemed more meaningful than the slowing properties of Vlish, which took 1 turn to kick in anyway. Searing Artila are also surprisingly durable, and have stupidly high resistances to energy-based attacks & thus make great pocket tanks against mages. Vlish don't have the same durability, and Terror Vlish are just bad, with an even worse essence cost.

 

With that said, maybe there's some secret meta of mass spamming Vlish. To me though, I don't see how they'd stay relevant into Island 4; my super leveled Searing Artila were barely keeping up as is, I can't see how an even lowered leveled Vlish army could do any better. 

Impressive. However... Vlish can tank. They have their poison stinger too for those death stuff. They are also dead cheap. In the 2nd and 3rd island you have both Greta and Alwan so IMO even a guardian can concentrate on Vlishdom. They will level up and bless helps them hit.

12 minutes ago, Into consciousness madeconscious outofthe darkness said:

You could always mod anything. 

If only that "always" was the case...  Regardless, Since Vinlie has shown some interest in basic modding I try to find ways to encourage him.

19 hours ago, Vinlie said:

Is it possible to beat the game completely relying on missiles, such as batons, javelins, and crystals? They're limited use weapons so are there enough missiles to completely beat the game?

You could always mod javelins to be unlimited (as in "I pick it back later!") or increase the number of thorns the lower batons have while leaving the others the same or many other nice things...

I found GF2 harder playing as a Shaper than GF5 to be sincere.

My Shaper's Cryora can take an Unbound by late game without me using blessing magic on her. She can beat your Cryoa every day of the week! :P

Well, my style is my Shaper in a corner 2 expendable creations and 4 big ones that I level and treat well. 5 when I can afford it. What I consider as "big" depends on what I have available. I always keep my trusty Cryora though through the whole game.

Equipment for Shapers in the last two games is very important too. My Shaper's equipment in GF5 gave my creations like +8-12 to all stats.

Shaper on the first part of GF3 is next to cheat mode. Although that Guardian you presented seems immortal.

Having played a Guardian in GF5 I have to say that he's not very weak. I had to increase the difficulty of some battles because a well equipped Guardian backed with a couple of Tralls is very formidable. Not as much as Shaper but still even without completing every quest, you can take down the final battles without too much trouble especially if you invest in inventory that makes your creations stronger instead of making you stronger. 4-5 high tier creations at +2 attack is better than you at +4 attack since they make more attacks. Speed spores and that chaos spores thing help as well.

And since I suck at using magic for offense properly, Agents \ infiltrators would be more difficult for me IMO.

But I would agree that on GF3 the Guardian is the weakest option. But not "by far" IMO. A Guardian will not probably have as much intelligence as an agent so he would have less ability to back creations with mind-bazooka and blessing magic. But since he won't need essence for much else, he could squeeze by to have as many or perhaps more creations than an Agent and theoretically he would get them earlier and at a bit higher Shaping bonus so I think they would be a few levels higher than the Agent's.

10 hours ago, Randomizer said:

Guardians start out with more essence, but fall behind Warriors according to Slarty.

In GF5 that is the only game with both Guardians and Warriors, once the warrior hits 15 intelligence and 25 level, I think the guardian is left behind despite the early bonus. And with so many very powerful creations available, more essence = more power.

4 hours ago, Randomizer said:

Warriors are weaker because Jeff set the default resistances lower for them compared to Guardians. That's the only real difference.

Don't they also get a little more essence?

Long live the rebellion comrade.

First, it's not Guardians, it's warriors and Warriors-that-trained-with-the-hated-Shapers. :P

I also thought Guardians Warriors were the weakest. I still think they are weaker than Shapers Lifecrafters in GF3-4 but perhaps that's just my playstyle. In GF3, at least in the not-late parts, more Vlish = more power. My Shaper rarely gets into combat as I keep back and bless\heal my Vlish. They are simply better than my spells or attacks although I haven't used a Guardian in GF3 to see if he can outperform the Vlish by the time the difference in levels grows large enough.
People say that GF2 is the Guardian's game but... I prefer Shapers so I went with that.

PS. We've made a mod for Guardians for GF5 that incorporates Gamerman's artifact batons mod and also has some artifact weapons.

33 minutes ago, Vinlie said:

Are Geneforge remakes actually confirmed?

The first one yes, there's a thread about it.

57 minutes ago, Deadliar said:

Importantly, player choice on Greenwood could solve that last issue wacky mentioned. The player is given the option to be rude... but what if you could actually try to order the people around? Get yourself an escort squad of controllable soldiers that are clearly afraid for their lives by forcing the commander to help you.

Then, if any of them died, you get a lovely reaction from the commander. Something like clearly being enraged but holding it back and being polite. After all, what's a few followers to solve a rogue problem, eh? A better choice for a less-kind shaper roleplayer.

Can be modded in. And you can also make their deaths, each one, affect your standing with the Rebels and\or with Greta. And even have personalized names for them and death messages if they die.

The whole thing is a bit tricky for a beginner but not impossible. Making a couple of them recruitable for a hit in reputation with the Rebels and then getting the penalty back (or not depending on answers) when they're returned is easier.

Want to go berserk? Make it possible for one of them to use the experimental canister in the warehouse  to make that soldier better "accidentally" (if you haven't used it your character is theoretically unaware of what it does) for a significant hit with the Shapers AND make Alwan abandon you on Harmony.
Something that Lord Rahul would drill you about when you meet him and you have to tell him "it was an accident! I didn't know!" etc just to postpone your trial until the end of the mess.
Gives you a reason to go for Litalia if the Shapers threaten to have you on trial for that, doesn't it?

And all those, can be done with a few changes in dialogue and some script magic.

That's the power of modding.

2 hours ago, Vinlie said:

So Deadliar how would you yourself fix these problems?

Vinlie… you wanted scripting and moding practice. Changing the dialogue of all things, it's the EASIEST thing you can do.

8 hours ago, Deadliar said:

Could've, Alhoon, could've.

 

I personally think that Zachary is pathetic, but he showed traits of cunning between his otherwise bland character. I think he could've been, and should've been, a mastermind-type guy, and not the weak, regretful person that we got.

Oh, you mean a completely different character based on the same experiences and background?

I am not so sure... a mastermind Zackary wouldn't have been outmaneuvered by his apprentice in the first place nor he would be the follower while he was the mentor. He would be more assertive. What I mean is that without the burned-out has-been that lacked decisiveness GF2 wouldn't come to be like that.

Geneforge 2, Zackary:

Zackary is IMO, not portrayed as a cunning and sly individual, but as an indecisive worthless pathetic coward lying with every breath to cover his mistakes and crimes. He is not a mastermind, nor a visionary nor a genius. He's the tarnished has-been, that is now a pencil-pusher that got eclipsed by the genius that was his apprentice, was tempted by power and blinded by a more charismatic personality with true leadership abilities - Barzahl, but didn't have the guts to open his wings and fly too close to the sun but neither had the courage to return to earth.

He's not portrayed IMO as a foil for Barzahl nor as an excellent leader; on the contrary, he's portrayed as a someone Barzahl used and a bad leader.

And in that regard, he's portrayed very well and plays the role of the used and discarded pawn very well.

The person you describe, the leader with the plans, the mastermind that slowly changed his mind and works towards redemption, the shadow puppetmaster... Zackary IMO was never intended to be that.

He's an inglorious idiot that couldn't follow Barzahl nor he had the guts to admit his crimes to the Shaper council so he's locked indecisively in the midst, until an agent shows up and he has her imprisoned as if that would stop her.

In short IMO the game rightly utilizes Lying Zackary the Deceiver as a worth-less-than-a-glaak's-vomit. 

I wanted the drakons to be much bigger, like they were in GF2-4. Then ... I ended up making plated clawbugs the PC makes bigger on a whim to see if I can do it. Now that I know I can do it, In quests I make in the future, I may put specific boss enemies as bigger variants. Like a Clawbug queen that isn't just another color or has just a different name, but is visibly bigger.

That kind of thing.

Oh, we do have  similar stuff and Dropbox does this automatically I think. Thanks.

I don't even know what source control systems are.

Start with small steps you just did until you get the hang of it. Read the tutorial and if you think of something or hit any problems ask and we will try to help.

Remember that there are a few "hidden" limits that may cause a mod to crush. One is the size of the script file. So if you start adding items you will encounter problems. As such you can add a few items or creations but at some point you would need to replace existing ones.

Yes. Notepad++ which I recommend.

4 hours ago, Vinlie said:

Yeah it isn't working still lol I'll keep playing around with it, see what works 

What did you try? Have you cleared the "usual suspects" ? I will list a few common problems, which are common and people commonly do. Please don't be insulted as they may sound foolish, but they are far more common than you think.

- Are you sure you... saved after making the change?

- Are you sure you changed the file in the scripts folder and not your back-up file?  I can tell I often make this mistake. I am not calling you a fool.

Please don't abandon your efforts. GF4 is my favorite Geneforge game and I would love if there were extra-content mods for it even if they are simple quests with a little dialogue here and a fetch quest there.
TheKian has made a nice mod about Artifact weapons that gives another layer to the game. Even if I find them a bit OP, I can mod them down if they're in.

Very strange, it should have worked. Are you sure the item you looked the value of was a dagger?

It worked for me. https://ibb.co/bR1ZTo

What sword did you change? Which value from the scripts?

Also, I think loading should have worked for value changes despite it being generated.