alhoon

Hello, long time fun of Geneforge games (the only games I've played from Spiderweb). 

I checked but I didn't find a thread dedicated to reviews so far. I would like to know from players new and old:

Do you like Queen's Wish?  

What is new and what is familiar in this game?

Spiderweb being spiderweb I guess this is character driven and story oriented and not too much pew-pew-boom-boom. But how is it on the writing side? With all due respect, I found the geneforge games a bit "light" on the text and descriptions department. I am not asking for tons of text, I am just wondering whether writing is more in this one. 

Are the new stronghold mechanics good? 

I am optimistic about this game and I would buy it eventually but I was considering to wait for a steam sale or something. 

I can guarantee it took years of hard work from theKian, with a various versions and all. The amount of work he put in this tool is great as is my thanks to him for this. 

Zonelab tool: I do remember how to use this. More or less, similar to what I did in matlab, you make a bmp file using a specific color code and that generates a zone. 

There are also several items that give a little healing, so with 1-2 points in total, you would be fine I think by late game. However, personally, I go for regeneration aura as soon as realistically possible.

I also loved GF and I haven't tried the rest of the games. Why not? Because the premise of the Geneforge, a game where you make your own party, literally, was intriguing and innovative.

Clawbugs for meatshields and Tralls for late game.

Playing with the Shaper classes when they have those extra bonuses is a bit "meh" IMO; the classes weren't supposed to have those bonuses.

Also, I think GF5 gives access to good melee weapons early on and you have crafting to make them even better.

Regardless, it seems that Mage-only infiltrator is better than mage/fighter infiltrator.
Do we know whether Mage-only (Sorceress, agent, inflitrator) is better than Servile Turtle mage?

I don't disagree because I have no experience playing those. I also was not clear when I posed my question apparently.

What I meant was a "Fighter\mage" that is "ranged magic and then melee for when energy runs out".

I did some tests (I have an "arena mod" for such things) and ... frankly the only viable melee\magic hybrid is mental magic heavy, to cast daze and then beat the other side with your sword. But if you are magic-heavy and you are an infiltrator... you're better off toping the daze with battle magic than a weapon. I.e. Infiltrator diverting some skills to melee (which means also strength, quick action etc) is suboptimal to boosting battle magic and intelligence and hiding behind a few meat shield creations.

8 hours ago, Damp Annals said:

basically, it's not that you can't do OK with them, it's that they are strictly worse than other options, without providing any kind of additional playstyle or anything like that.

 

Also, I'm pre-emptively exiting the argument now, due to the history of these things going on forever...

Oh oh... before you exit that argument, just one sentence:

So... it's not that they're "too weak", it's that they are not fun to play which is downright damning by itself since this is a game. That IMO is much more important than questions of balance.

Back to JackEnOff:
Shaper is better in hard because... magic is better. You also don't have to divert as much to strength as you won't wear as heavy armor. Still, if you plan to go with "Creation army with PC minor support" perhaps you could try a Shocktrooper for the slightly extra challenge ... although if the Shocktrooper is more boring to play that would be a problem. I cannot in good conscience suggest you to play a class that will be boring.

Random question: While Servile is better as fighter/mage, would it be viable to have an Infiltrator Fighter/mage build? Without much mental magic and only temporary creations when needed that is?

8 hours ago, Damp Annals said:

"It would be a little tougher than with a Shaper (because magic > fighting) but not much"

 

No, that will be way more than a little tougher.

Than Shaper? Why "Way more" than a little tougher if I may ask?

I have played GF5 as mostly a "Shaping Shaper" with items and artifacts that boost the Creations, no mind magic at all except the 3 points to use "unlock", not those boots that give Action Points etc, mostly relying on the creations to do the fighting and it was... easy-ish. Easier than GF4 I would think.

So since at least in my experience all you need is Shaping and a bit of blessing magic, I would expect Shaper to be just a bit more powerful than a Shocktrooper.

What I mean is that I have found that in normal difficulty at least, in GF5 a Shaper\Lifecrafter acting as nothing more than an "Inventory" and staying completely out of the fights is able to nicely deal with the whole game without a hiccup. So, since a "person focusing on an army of powerful creations without spending more than a few skills in blessing magic" is enough, I don't see how buying those few levels in blessing magic 2 skill points more expensively will make a great difference.
In the end, you'll end with 2-3 blessing magic below a Shaper and perhaps 1-2 levels less in a Shaping talent. I don't see how that would be much more difficult.

On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 12:04 PM, JackEKnoff said:

I'm thinking of playing an infiltrator or shocktrooper for G5, but I'll probably just make another thread to pester you guys with my mundane questions. 😜

Go for Shocktrooper IMO. Why? Because I think it would be more interesting. 
Shocktroopers are good in Shaping and the blessings for your creatures when needed, you can get from items. It would be a little tougher than with a Shaper (because magic > fighting) but not much. If you use Gamerman's mod for the artifact weapons and batons, it would be easier and it would give you something to look forward to. 

Also, in case you're interested in mods, my mod about Shapers\Lifecrafters could be used with a Shocktrooper without problems. It's meant as a mod for "Shaping primary" types.

True... I was thinking Spellcraft 2~>7 without items vs BMagic 10~>15 without items

Question: Is Battle Magic really capped in GF4? Or it's only for Shaping?

39 minutes ago, JackEKnoff said:

So a pure magic infiltrator wouldn't be that good?

 

Also, I got 3 questions based on my where I'm at right now.

1. Could someone reassure me I didn't mess up my oozing blade? I put a runed onyx on it hoping it would slow my opponents, but it doesn't seem to be doing anything.
2. Should I use the guardian claymore I got from Shaftoe or the shaped blade?
3. Does anyone know what the best sword in the game is?

Pure magic infiltrator could be very good, but it's not the 15 battle magic that would make her good. For starters to get battle magic from 10~>15 it would probably be cheaper to raise spellcraft by 5 and it would add to everything. 

However, I am not an expert on these kind of things. I always played a Shaper and had my troops do the heavy lifting. 

Or gone bat-crazy, insane and locked in the Foundry to be studied by people that don't suspect who he is. 

Everything is viable more or less with the right determination. Including probably a Servile that focuses ONLY on Shaping battle creations or a Shaper (shaper class) that focuses only on melee combat or a Guardian that focuses only on battle magic if you enjoy a huge challenge while fighting with one arm tied behind your back, finding other ways around some battles etc. 

For magic-and-melee I believe infiltrator is better because he's magic first. For Melee-and-magic then I believe Servile is better. 

Personally, believe 15 battle magic is a waste of skill for every kind of character. I mean those tons of skill points you will sink there will give you like +15 damage on kill or something. 

Frankly, the Monarch from GF4 also fits the description and is a fan-favorite. I also prefer to think it's the GF3 protagonist (or GF4 protagonist) but the way the game is written, is on purpose vague so you could assume it's your GF4 servile (if you play a servile) or your GF3 agent (if you play a sorceress-agent-infiltrator). 
What we know is that the GF5 protagonist was an important person that Greta, Litalia and Alwan recognize and perhaps Ghaldring has seen. Nothing else. The rest is conjecture. 

Everything you said about the GF3 protagonist, fits the GF4 protagonist too. He\she has met the big four, he\she was over the switch with the "destroy the Unbound" \ "finish the Unbound" (a vastly important decision) and Litalia has reasons to think you are pissed with her for the way she threw you under the bus twice in GF4.  

Perhaps this is the wrong thread but... what happens if you try to finish the game as a servile working for Taygen? Are you done for when the disease is released?

As for the GF3 protagonist, that's what I want to believe although it creates some loops. Ghaldring also recognizes you I think. Of course he could have met the GF3 protagonist once he was geneforged or something.

Random answers: About Litalia apologizing: It's not that she was nice to you in GF4. You were grabbed and Geneforged without anyone telling you would probably end up mad or a ball of goo.

Also: "For all you know, you bore a great grudge against her once. There is no way of knowing yet." I.e. the previous is a hypothesis the protagonist makes.

What I meant was more in line of "You could assume your GF3 PC or GF2 PC or GF4 PC was the one without asking "how my guardian became a servile?" if you played with a servile.

What I mean is that if we go for a "Clear" background for the GF5 PC, then he or she will most probably be someone new and NOT a former protagonist in order to conform to "But I played Servile in GF4 and a Sorceress in GF5!" or "I played an agent in GF3 and a guardian in GF5" etc

I.e. I believe leaving it open leads to more happy fans IMO. 

4 hours ago, Aleister said:

Personally for GF 5 I'd like a chain where you do end up finding your true identity. Make it as easy/hard as you want like u cant use canisters, have to follow certain unexplicit clues etc. Just to please the inner Matt Patt  detective in some of the die-hard fans.

That would IMO not be very good. The way it is now, we can assume that the GF3 character or GF4 character was the protagonist or even the GF2 character.

Awesome. I will finally get to play the GForge game you all loved and hopefully the various inconsistencies with later games that are probably there will be retconned.

Yes. But the entries for Creations is shorter. You can check that yourself if you want Kian.

Doing some guesswork, in case anyone wants to do some serious modding of GF2 or I decide to take on it in the future (although I would guess GF2 remake would be in the works in like 4-5 years making such work kinda redundant) the creations probably start 25500 in the hex editor. In the Drypeak zone, I can see Shanti's z1 script a little down, leading me to think that indeed the mass FF FF FF FF things are for creations, hopefully in the format found in GF5. 

EDIT: Nope, they don't follow the same format. The creation entries are somewhat shorter for GF2. 
So... yeah, a lot of guesswork. 

Just to be clear: When I said "adding a new creation" I meant things like adding creature #44 to a zone with 43 creatures in it, whether it is a servile, a cryora or a Gazer. Which requires hex editing and since the zones are different than GF4-5 etc, it frankly requires both work and guesswork. 

Congratulations on your first mod. 😎

It may seem small to you, but it is still a mod. Perhaps you could find the courage to make a cheat-mod where you talk to someone and he, she or it raises your stats and then upload it.

Truth be told, the Barzites and even Tuldaric should be on board even story-wise.

"Would it be possible to increase the value of a gemstone to like $10000 by editing the scripts folder? " 

Yes. 

Geneforge 2 > Data > Scripts 

open gforscen.txt

find this and make the changes 

begindefineitem 2;
    it_name = "Gemstone";
    it_variety = 11;
    it_graphic_sheet = 2;
    it_which_icon_ground = 7;    
    it_which_icon_inven = 8;
    it_charges = 1;
    it_value = 10000;
    it_extra_description = 8;

Thinking more about the previous one, it should be possible, without tremendous effort to add a "new" creation that is a bigger graphical version of another creation. I.e. the big drakons of the Awakened in the something-of-winds. 
I.e. you could have Learned-something (awakened boss) send a letter or something to the guys there and get them to shape for you a huge drakon and assign him to you, and with the right scrips here and there, the drakon could even say his thing, say when facing the Takers or something. 

Since adding a creation in the game is too much effort, your best bet, without huge effort, would be to have them give you a boosted-up creation. 

Reward-wise, if you want artifacts etc, it's much easier. You could make an item as imba as you like in the scripts and then insert it as a reward in the game at the end of a quest chain. Say, you could have the Banite guys ask you to steal important staff from the Awakened, then from lying Zakary the Deceiver, bring them a ton of essence pods and staff and Zaaaaaaap the item you've scripted so that you could get it as a reward from text.