Garrulous Glaahk Meri20098 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I never played the original avernum 2 but here's my thought anyway. So in avernum 2 (at least in the remake) the vahnatai are your friends and help you win the war against the empire but in avernum 3 they go nuts and try to kill you? I don't get why. Thoughts? SurraAgob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 It's only the faction following Rentar-Ihrno that releases the plagues upon the Empire. It's revenge for stealing the crystal souls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 It's only the faction following Rentar-Ihrno that releases the plagues upon the Empire. It's revenge for stealing the crystal souls. Also, they're specifically targeting the surface world and its inhabitants: the only reason Avernum is involved at all is because it actively decided to interfere, apparently in hopes of normalising relations with the Empire (at the expense of, y'know, the people who allied with them against the people who were trying to exterminate them) and maybe grabbing a little surface land for themselves in the process. I'm kind of hoping A3:RW has an option to side with Rentar in the endgame, honestly: it'd be way more justifiable than A5's option to side with the Darkside Loyalists, at least. gem helper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 The behavior is actually understandable. Firstly, Rentar-Ihrno is always clear that she doesn't like humans generally and puts up with Avernum because she hates the Empire more. Secondly, for Rentar and her followers, A3 is a direct continuation of A2. Avernum considers the war over when the Empire withdraws, but Rentar is satisfied by nothing less than total annihilation of the Empire and just carries on hostilities. As mentioned, Rentar tries to kill you, and not Avernum generally, only because you are actively messing up her plans and, in fact, literally invading her base. —Alorael, who then considers A4 a direct extension of A3. Really, plot-wise, A2-4 make a much better trilogy than A1-3 or A4-6. gem helper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Without A1 why is the empire invading? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Edgwyn Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 A1 is a prequel that provides background to the Rentar-Ihrno saga, kind of like The Hobbit to the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Triumph 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug Forget it Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I wonder which faction are the Vahnatai in A6 then. It seems as though if you're good to them, Avernum suffers. Then again if you're pro-avernum I don't know if any ending of A6 is completely satisfying. Unless you're evil enough to enjoy helping the one guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 All A6 endings are bad and its upto player to decide which is least bad (tyranny 1 way or other, weak ruler or stalemate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 A1 is a prequel that provides background to the Rentar-Ihrno saga, kind of like The Hobbit to the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Most likely, it'd be about humans first settling the caves and surviving the onslaught of demons. That, or the First Expedition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Slawbug Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Really, plot-wise, A2-4 make a much better trilogy than A1-3 or A4-6. I don't think I agree. A1-3 make a coherent trilogy with a progression amongst related topics: life in exile, the height of the conflict, and the re-emergence onto the surface. The Empire is a major entity in each, but its role shifts from abusive past master, to opponent in war, to that which must be protected. It is also works well around Erika, easily the most interesting character in the whole series, and who has critical, and parallel, roles in the first and last chapters of that trilogy. There is a parallel setup for Grah-Hoth, too. A2-4 might share the element of the Vahnatai, but that's an inelegantly balanced trilogy, where A2 tells one story and A3-4 tell a very different one. A2 also makes much less sense as an introduction to the setting than A1 does. On the other hand, A4 is the odd one out in terms of characters and story. That is a lop-sided trilogy in every way, though the lop leans in different directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer gem helper Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 It's only the faction following Rentar-Ihrno that releases the plagues upon the Empire. It's revenge for stealing the crystal souls. Stealing is putting it lightly. The crystal souls are their honored elders and living gods, and while they're capable of defending themselves from certain things, they're physically helpless without magic. The Empire kidnapped these people, imprisoned them in their own inert bodies, and experimented extensively on them; they're all seriously traumatized, one of them to the point of permanent disability. They do use the word "stealing" to refer to this, but it's genuinely something much, much worse. It's kidnapping, torture, and blasphemy. It's hard to exactly contextualize the magnitude of the crime in human terms, but it's easy to take away the impression that what was done was inexcusable and the only real debate is over who bears moral responsibility for it. Rentar just takes the position that everything in the Empire does, from Garzahd not just down to its lowliest citizen but down to the trees on its soil and the birds in its skies. Certainly that's a little extreme but it's not hard to understand where it comes from. adc. and Tyranicus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Sarachim Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Also, they're specifically targeting the surface world and its inhabitants: the only reason Avernum is involved at all is because it actively decided to interfere, apparently in hopes of normalising relations with the Empire (at the expense of, y'know, the people who allied with them against the people who were trying to exterminate them) and maybe grabbing a little surface land for themselves in the process. I'm kind of hoping A3:RW has an option to side with Rentar in the endgame, honestly: it'd be way more justifiable than A5's option to side with the Darkside Loyalists, at least. Avernum also decided to interfere because Rentar's plans would have made the surface permanently uninhabitable, and human civilization in the caves was fragile and possibly unsustainable. Given what happened in A6, it seems like the correct decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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