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What else would you do if you could shape?


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Sorry I missed the other one. Well, not really.

 

I would keep it to myself. If you think the Geneforge world has it bad, imagine the modern world if shaping were suddenly a factor! That game Bioshock gave you a taste of a similar scenario. Things didn't turn out well for those people. Crazy cosmetic surgeons, genetic arms races, creepy marketing scheme's for tonics and plasmids (Bioshock versions of canisters). Their entire civilization crumbed into a few insane survivors and those guys didn't even have the ability to make creations!

 

If shaping were introduced into our world, things would take a turn for the worst. The Creations Rights activists would be the biggest interest group ever, both candidates would pander, I'm sure, while at the same time denying any affiliation with such groups. Then there's religion, just imagine how many different ways they would come up with for how shaping is an affront against God.

 

So sorry, if I could shape, I would probably keep it to myself. I would never be able to help as many people with it as would be hurt by it in the long run.

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Originally Posted By: Sleeping Dragon

If shaping were introduced into our world, things would take a turn for the worst.

Aye,
Without a guiding power like the shapers to create laws we would have violence, like tiny bits of charred human next to a very large drakon and a robed figure screaming, “I AM MOSSES”.

*We’ve already covered this topic*

A gang of servile haters would wave their noses around like flags on a poll.

Violence from terrorist would be felt every day, most probably in the form of exploding wingbolts...
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In way we are learning how to shape. Though I don't want nor think we will take the same path the shapers did. Also I don't think we will, we have several technological optionals to shaping. I can't see shaping having many reasons beyond medical purposes. Its far easier for us develop combat robots then it would be to develop super soldiers.

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Yes. But you have to look at it from both angles. What we were doing virtually jumpstarted our economy at an amazing rate. Even in the 1950's at least 80 years afterwards it was still a relitively new idea(AKA factories etc) and because of out stagnet ecomomy at the time, would you beilive a scientist running up to you and screaming at you that pumping CD is bad for the Earth when only about 20 years ago we really started to feel the backlash, would you beilive them? I sure as hell wouldn't.

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Originally Posted By: Ackrovan
What we were doing virtually jumpstarted our economy at an amazing rate.
I would never justify harming the enviroment to improve a system we have made up and we control. If our economy sees too much inflation we can take steps to stop/slow it, even switch out our money. the enviroment is not as easy.

Originally Posted By: Ackrovan
when only about 20 years ago we really started to feel the backlash
funny, it seems I was just watching a movie talking about studies showing a few graphs about the enviroment created in the 50's...What was that movie's name...

If by...
Originally Posted By: Ackrovan
20 years ago we really started to feel the backlash
you mean we're just now seeing the effects in our backyards then yeah, you got it. we've been feeling it all this century, we are just now seeing how gigantic the effects are and getting to tired os saying el nino.
We are feeling the effects we just aren't admitting them, just ask ole Georgey.
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Thanks. My father actually owns one of the albums listed (Music for Non-Thinkers), and I most thoroughly enjoy it, especially since all the cast & crew were given several liters of lager specifically for the recording. And one song in particular, "Come Vere the Band Ist Playing," I think goes well with the picture you posted.

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Originally Posted By: Nebulan
I thought that would include a rifle

also... I brought beer.



Hey, where did you get that picture of me and my friends at my cousins Bar-mitzva.....Oh, wait a minute, forget you read that. And it might not be the best idea to steal Alorael sniper rifle.

Originally Posted By: Nebulan
Great here's another... It's much better

And thats what happened when Martin Lawrence came into the picture.


Mystic, play that funkay music white boy
That's my favorite song from the 70's
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Xelgion, I'm not a troll. That discussion is not for now though.

 

I think I'd try to do something with medicine. Perhaps try to shape a virus that would kill other viruses? Really, when you think of it, we're already Shaping, as a race. We can alter genes, and create clones. We can even take DNA from one animal and stick it in another.

 

I propose we change the topic to "What shouldn't we do, in respect to creating new life?" My answer, I think, would be "create life".

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And here comes nikki to ruin it... tongue seriously, one shaper alone could destroy the world. if we really had shaping at the mastery jeff made, anyone mad enough at the world, could constantly make things that do nothing but eat ozone or something else crucial to the world, because shaping has no limit to size. True, we have it to some extent, but we arent even scratching the surface of what shaping is as defined by jeff.

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Originally Posted By: Nikki.
Xelgion, I'm not a troll. That discussion is not for now though.

I think I'd try to do something with medicine. Perhaps try to shape a virus that would kill other viruses? Really, when you think of it, we're already Shaping, as a race. We can alter genes, and create clones. We can even take DNA from one animal and stick it in another.

I propose we change the topic to "What shouldn't we do, in respect to creating new life?" My answer, I think, would be "create life".


Ah, but to what extent? Realiesing a litiral "Anti-Virus" could cause more harm than good. If could very well infect the people its supposed to preserve.
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Originally Posted By: Nikki.

Would creating a human organ from magic, in order to give it to a human-sired child, be terrible?
In Geneforge 2, at the end of the tunnel that leads you into the “new world” you discover that illegal shaping has been taking place. Such rash shaping causes terrible consequences in the long run, Just as eastern Medab’s shaped vegetables would eventually cause the soil to become too robbed of nutrients to grow anything else, that's if everything goes as planned. I’ll give it a few more posts before I guess someone would want to amazonize the desert.
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What's interesting if you think about it is that this might not be irrelevant to the real world. When one "makes" a computer program, it is in theory under one's absolute control, but bugs tend to slip in. Apply some of this speculation to a true AI (which I, for one, think we're likely to develop sooner or later), and we could be in a whole lot of trouble depending on how cautious we are.

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I appreciate you guys proving me wrong by getting back on topic. smile

 

I think the difference between shaping and genetic engineering is simply... magic. They both do the same thing, but where a shaper uses magic to alter genes, scientists in our world use... whatever scientists use (not my area of expertise, obviously). So sure, we can sort of shape in our modern world, but not nearly to the dangerous extent that they can in Geneforge. You need to by a scientist with great knowledge and expensive equipment to shape on earth, and even then you are extremely limited. Shaping seems to be a more inherent power and if the average person on earth could tap into that power (or worse, canisters were introduced) then there would be catastrophic consequences.

 

Just out of curiosity, anyone ever read Report on the Barnhouse Effect by Vonnegut? In it, a man suddenly discovered the secret of telekinesis (it is hinted that anyone could unlock this power if they know the secret) yet he wisely keeps it to himself and uses it to destroy all weapons of mass destruction on earth. He is quickly vilified by the major powers of the world.

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Okay, but Shapers, for hundreds of years, just bombarded creatures with magic, and noted down any effects. They were able to conquer continents using this technique - it wasn't until Sucia that genes were discovered.

 

We're already beyond that stage of bombarding things with magic (radiation, anybody? I mean, after all, that is why cannister-users glow green, isn't it?) - whilst we can't create uber-legions of doom quite yet, it's because we've not wanted to make monsters. I think if we took a large enough sample of monkeys, and blasted radiation at certain gene structures, eventually we'd be able to give them super-strength.

 

(Please note: I may be talking out of my ass here. I don't know nearly enough about genetics to know whether or not that would happen, but it certainly seems possible.)

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If we wanted to give animals super strength, we wouldn't need to randomly bombard them with radiation. All we'd need to do is knock out the myostatin gene, which encodes a hormone that suppresses excessive muscle production. Disable the gene and you end up with monsters.

 

They don't breathe fire, though.

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Originally Posted By: Nikki.
Okay, but Shapers, for hundreds of years, just bombarded creatures with magic, and noted down any effects. They were able to conquer continents using this technique - it wasn't until Sucia that genes were discovered.

We're already beyond that stage of bombarding things with magic (radiation, anybody? I mean, after all, that is why cannister-users glow green, isn't it?) - whilst we can't create uber-legions of doom quite yet, it's because we've not wanted to make monsters. I think if we took a large enough sample of monkeys, and blasted radiation at certain gene structures, eventually we'd be able to give them super-strength.

(Please note: I may be talking out of my ass here. I don't know nearly enough about genetics to know whether or not that would happen, but it certainly seems possible.)

Theoraticly, yes. But you really have to understand the subject in order to fully grasp how many different ways we could do this. In fact, we are only know really understanding how to manipulate and "fuse" together different types of genes. We may be have the possiblity to make things the way the shapers do but this would certinly be way after we die, maybe even when our children are nearing death(Generaly).
Originally Posted By: Thuryl
If we wanted to give animals super strength, we wouldn't need to randomly bombard them with radiation. All we'd need to do is knock out the myostatin gene, which encodes a hormone that suppresses excessive muscle production. Disable the gene and you end up with monsters.

They don't breathe fire, though.

Yes, but this would cut there life span effectivly in half(or so). Constanly pouring raw strength into somthing, it would eventualy be killed under its own mass. We would then have to alter its being so it could survive with its super strength. That's why the shapers can't just pour raw magic into a creation before it becomes mutated, disfigured, mad, or a mix of the three.
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[Edit: Ahem. Missing a page of thread doesn't help.]

 

Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas. It isn't really relevant to ozone layer damage.

 

—Alorael, who finds the conflation of the two atmospheric issues vexing. Being irradiated and being cooked aren't the same no mater how much anyone calls microwaving "nuking."

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Quote:
Yes, but this would cut there life span effectively in half(or so). Constantly pouring raw strength into something, it would eventually be killed under its own mass. We would then have to alter its being so it could survive with its super strength.


Typically, humans aren't as good as soldiers after the first half of their lives anyways. Besides, did you read correctly? That particular gene removes (to a degree) the limit on muscle gain. Doing nothing gives an incredibly muscular physique if the deficiency is severe enough. The body can take that quite well- it's the equivalent of being a decent bodybuilder at no cost. And why not alter the being further?

Quote:
That's why the Shapers can't just pour raw magic into a creation before it becomes mutated, disfigured, mad, or a mix of the three.


If they do it randomly, yes. But what you described is pretty much all of Shaping. The key is finesse.
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Originally Posted By: Ackrovan
Mystic, play that funkay music white boy
That's my favorite song from the 70's
I could post some weirder stuff if you'd like, though it would have to be in the general board.

Now, back to the topic. If I had the power to shape, I'd probably do simple experiments until the novelty of having that much power finally wears off; then I'd reabsorb anything I created (except maybe one or two, for sentimental reasons), and go on with my life.

[pun]Then again, shaping would be a great way to make new friends...[/pun]
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Hmmm...

Damn, this is where my sadistic streak comes in....

I think I'd have to start by making a few powerful creatures and marching on Washington and demanding that the public install some decent politicians.

 

Also, I've never been able to figure out if Shapers could directly effect their own bodies (shaping themselves W/O a canister or Geneforge).

If they could, that would be the second thing I;d do: mkae myslef into to a Drakon. Fun.

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