DA ENDING!!!

[Acky]

Now that everyone is pre-suicicdale about G5, I was wondering which ending we think Jeff will chose

1:Rebal Ending-Unbound are unleashed. Drakons get more arragant and distant. Shapers loosen laws alot. The end of the world

2:Shaper Ending-Rebals pushed back to Ashlen Ilands. War ends. Shapers Stricken laws alot. Everyone starts to rebuild.

3:Travioke-Some Unbound made but Northforge destroyed. Drakons become less distant and arragant. Shapers loosen laws a little. A deadly stalemate begins

[Acky]

Have fun

[Xaiya]

Obviously he will pick the Trakovite ending.

The Rebels and the Shapers have come to a stalemate...

 

Besides, any other way would end up just ending the series right there, and obviously there is going to be a G5.

 

(And by the way, there is an edit post option)

 

Edit -Hey wait a second, hasn't a thread like this occurred before?

[Nioca]

Now hold on a minute, Iffy. While the Shaper and Rebel endings were massive victories for whomever the player supported, neither provided an outright win. Admittedly, the Shaper ending doesn't provide much room to maneuver, but the Rebel ending is completely doable for GF5.

[Sleeping Dragon]

Ghaldring died in the Shaper ending, so I don't think that one will happen since the player has yet to get a chance to fight him. The Trakovite ending is likely, but I believe the Rebel ending is possible as well since the Shapers seemed to have the upper hand throughout most of the last game. The Rebel ending would leave them weakened and I think it would also leave the Rebellion weakened due to the unpopularity of the unbound. Perfect opportunities for new factions to rise.

 

I was disappointed that Greta was such a big supporter of the unbound idea. I would have like to have had her return as the leader of a splinter faction of the Rebellion in the next game, but I think it is likely that she will not return at all with how far gone she had become at the end of the last game. She had become a redundant Litalia character. Alwan is still good to go, it seems. He's become the quintessential conservative Shaper.

 

Sorry to get off topic at the end there.

[Lilith]

The Rebel ending was a possibility before Jeff confirmed that there'd be no new creations in G5. G4's Rebel ending explicitly states that both the Shapers and the Rebels start making all kinds of bizarre new creations, and it'd be very surprising if we didn't see any of them in a game that was based on that ending.

[Sleeping Dragon]

Aw, when did he say that? How sad.

[ex post slarto]

Greta was certainly not a redundant Litalia character. First, because Greta visibly disagrees with a lot of what the Drakons are doing, but goes along with it because she sees no other choice -- resisting the Drakons would be impractical. Second, because Litalia is remarkably different in G4 than she was in G3. She is in fact the only character in the entire series to provide any serious hope of healing the effects of unbridled shaping and canister use; a rather unlikely beacon of hope.

[Evnissyen]

Could Litalia change allegiances in G5?

 

I agree with Sleeping that Alwan is a pretty stable character and we're likely to see him again, but not as likely Greta. I suppose Miranda (was that her name?) we might see again... .

 

But Khyryk I think we'll definitely see again, and this is why I'm confident the Trakovites will be a significant, if not major, faction in G5 . . . his exile and then his admitted appreciation of their philosophy, in G4, pretty much validates the Trakovites for G5. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up taking up the cause as their new leader, hoping to turn "the right idea", as I think he calls it (if I remember right), into something reasonable and viable.

 

I think I've said this before, but: In G5 I want to be able to play a character who's been psychologically deranged by the Geneforge, like Shaila.

 

I want to see Shaila again, in G5. Maybe G5 will assume the "save Shaila" thread instead of the "kill Shaila" one.

 

As for the ending... I don't care, so long as it's not a Lewis Carroll ending.

 

[ex post slarto]

G4, On Litalia:

"You can see that she has been heavily modified. She has used many canisters. Perhaps the Geneforge as well. She has the vacant stare, the glowing eyes, the waxy skin. But she is also calmer, more serene, than those so heavily remade."

 

She says:

"I did many things. Terrible things. We all did... This haste kept us from acting... As justly as we could."

 

"I stopped using the canisters. I did not like the effect they have... Our bodies were not meant to be changed so... I am beginning to sound like a Trakovite, or a similar idiot. No. I simply stopped using the canisters. And I began to rebuild myself... I studied and relearned how to have emotions. And how to be patient. When not giving orders, I practice being a person again."

 

"The Trakovites may be right. They may be wise, and virtuous, and ahead of their time."

[Sudanna]

The self-Shaping given by the canisters is, beyond a doubt, unnatural and wrong. It twists and deranges the mind, bringing a level of insanity that only makes the new wielder of power more dangerous.

 

But the Trakovites stand against Shaping itself. Shaping is a fantastic tool, something powerful and pure. Life making life in the most effective way imaginable. It can be horrifically misused, but that gives freedom of choice and is all the better. Moreso, however, that it can be used for good to a degree not possible any other way.

[AnarhIztok2511]

By Slarty

G4, On Litalia:

"You can see that she has been heavily modified. She has used many canisters. Perhaps the Geneforge as well. She has the vacant stare, the glowing eyes, the waxy skin. But she is also calmer, more serene, than those so heavily remade."

 

She says:

"I did many things. Terrible things. We all did... This haste kept us from acting... As justly as we could."

 

"I stopped using the canisters. I did not like the effect they have... Our bodies were not meant to be changed so... I am beginning to sound like a Trakovite, or a similar idiot. No. I simply stopped using the canisters. And I began to rebuild myself... I studied and relearned how to have emotions. And how to be patient. When not giving orders, I practice being a person again."

 

"The Trakovites may be right. They may be wise, and virtuous, and ahead of their time."

 

And so, Litalia meets Khyryk, they marry and have a lot of kids and they shape Shorass a mate, so that they are a happy family. (couldn't resist)

 

Really, I'm not so sure the Trakovites will return as they are. I think that they could merge with the moderate rebels (Litalia, Greta, Serviles, maybe even some Drayks, who've seen that Drakons are actually new Shapers). Or some of them could become really orthodox, like Anama in the Avernum universe.

But it's really hard to tell, there are numerous possibilities.

For one, I also think that there's something bound to happen with the Drakons - maybe the young ones decide to overthrow Ghaldring and the old ones, so the latter have to become more moderate and continue on what they've started (Fighting for the Serviles in G2.). The Trakovite ending said, they start rethinking their role under the pressure of reason from the other creations and humans, as I remember.

Even the Shapers, I believe, will fall apart. I think it's really too much to speculate. But I'm sure anything Jeff does, will undoubtedly be good.

 

Oh yeah, to return to the topic - I think that the Rebel ending is as much a stalemate as a Trakovite ending, just that there is more destruction and less sanity - in other words, the war deepens and the emotions darken. As it was at every new installment, as I believe.

[Sleeping Dragon]

Slarty, the Greta and Litalia you described still seem very similar to me. Both don't like the drakons much, but continue to serve them regardless. The canister issues Litalia has would seem to add a bit more to her, making Greta, I don't know, obsolete?

 

I agree that canisters are bad, the mind should be strengthened before the body. However, I also believe that the Trakovites will modify their ideology to be more reasonable. No shaping at all simply doesn't seem reasonable, if only because they will lose the war without it. I think they will eventually allow some shaping, no canisters or geneforges, and a balance will be reached. Then they will truly be the most tempting faction out there.

[ex post slarto]

Greta does have additional background in G3.

[Sleeping Dragon]

So does Litalia.

 

Regardless, I certainly won't complain if she does return in the next game. I just hope we can cut down on the humans who unquestioningly serve the drakons, that's all.

[Synergy]

Trakovites all the way.

 

-S-

[Callie]

Well, since I seem to like the rebels best, I'd like to think the series will end with them. I wouldn't mind the shapers though either.

...

I never played anything more than the demos, so I only have a taste.

[Xaiya]

Canisters are like steroids. Except that while steroids make you hit stuff harder, canisters make you blast things harder.

 

That is why the Trakovites are half right. No canisters, but allow some shaping is what I think.

(This was a reply to a few previous posts)

[Goldengirl]

The Trakovites are just the Shapers, in their primitive form. They speak of a more utopian world in which there is no Shaping, thus the elitist, tyrannical aristocracy of the Shapers is gone, just like the crazed Rebels who contort the Art. Meanwhile, they hypocritically continue to Shape, as seen by Khyryk's "necessary evil" of making creations to defend himself. As the Trakovites bulge with the support of the commoners, they crush their foes, with a few elite Trakovites being "responsible" enough to use Shaping for the greater good. Then, with the enemy gone, these elite take out the purists, and ascend to the role of Shapers, speaking first of the need to preserve the sanctity of the new land, and then slowly burning away orthodox Trakovism, whilst keeping some elements, like destroying Shaping books, canisters, etc.

[Sleeping Dragon]

The big difference for me is that the Trakovites support the independence of creations. They Shapers would be times times as tempting and as powerful if they would only see creations as equal beings to deal with. That, for me, is why the Trakovites are better. At least, in the absence of the AWakened.

[Sudanna]

Creation freedom is certainly desirable, but Nalyd puts freedom of Shaping above that. Awakened FTW!

[Evnissyen]

What's crazy, and funny, to me is that we're sitting here at our computers arguing over how the politics of Geneforge world should play out in its final installment, while Jeff seems to have formulated it all already, quite a while ago... at least based on his updates.

 

Not to say it isn't fun. My only despair is that, since I've been demoted to the PC club, I'll be forced to wait until next Spring or later to get a copy of Geneforge 5. By the time of which I'll likely have been subjected to months of people chatting away on the SW forums about G5.

 

...Woe is I... .

 

Anyway...

 

Excalibur:

The obvious problem with the Rebels is that they're become resigned to any cost it takes to win, because they cannot win without taking the most desperate measures. So... although the Unbound are essentially the Geneforge world's form of the Doomsday weapon and will certainly ensure not only the defeat of the shapers but also the defeat of the human rebels... the rebels have resigned themselves to its creation and employment. (Somebody correct me if I'm misremembering this aspect.)

 

That, to me, is crazy.

 

In regard to the Shapers... I think my view is pretty much the view of the vast majority, as I'm sure Jeff intended it. They're power-hungry and cruel. Their sense of justice is radical, consisting of a drakonian control over dangerous magic. There's sanity and good in their stiff control, but in practice they've turned tyranical.

 

The Trakovites are rational to a large degree and like Khyryk I prefer them, but their view is irrationally utopian, since they don't seem to understand -- like somebody else pointed out, I don't remember who -- that Shaper magic is simply a fact of life in Geneforge world and you can't simply banish it without adopting the drakonian enforcement of the Shapers -- Goldenking alluded to something of this, I think. And in a Trakovite world you'll inevitably end up with another civil war.

 

Now that I've delved into G1 for the first time, I'm thinking: Perhaps the Sholai will make another appearance? Perhaps they're the only ones who can bring all the factions to the table and bring some sort of peaceful unity, and most of all sanity? Because in the end, all the factions except the Drakons are correct. The Drakons are simply wildly dangerous, but... they're very intelligent, so they don't necessarily need to be wiped out, they do seem -- at least based on what I saw in G4 (the Drakon Assembly scene was my favorite part of the game, I think) -- to have reasonable and politically clever personalities among them who are willing to listen to reason.