Garrulous Glaahk -x-OMEN-x- Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Most of you have seen my reply on this subject in G5 wishlist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Nick Ringer Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 It would be pretty disappointing if there weren't one. But yeah, I want it to be nothing short of epic. I'm talking multiple stages of the battle. Before and after you kick the main boss's ass (who will remain unnamed due to spoiler policy), there will be other battles, including but not limited to huge swarms of minions (the kind that foams at the mouth and speaks broken English), a puzzle type gauntlet, a bunch of locked doors or something, a trivia round, and an army of talking stick insects. Time it, rain arrows on it, flood it with sulfuric acid, and scare the ever-loving **** out of the player. I mean, with all these power gamers, there's really, really got to be a challenge involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Make a section near the end like the Howling Depths of Avernum 5. You are forced to push on to the end with no place to rest and no retreat from the limitless spawning minions behind you. This becomes a true test of endurance and planning as you have to figure out how to marshal your resources for the many fights all the time knowing that the worst is still yet ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Have to make sure, though, that you don't end up spending too long simply running in combat mode. With 7 creations, that would be misery. But a long running battle, where you can pick your ground and ambush your pursuers, or sacrifice a couple of creations as a rearguard, or spread your creations out ahead to find the short escape route ... that would be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Spidweb Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Short answer: Yes. - Jeff Vogel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Jeran Korak Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Hurrah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Taliesin Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I do love a straightforward answer. Hurrah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Jeran Korak Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Hoots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk -x-OMEN-x- Posted February 8, 2008 Author Share Posted February 8, 2008 Ty JEFF Vogel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Xelgion Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Yes!!!!!!!! Imagine a Unbound geneforged, pwnersomecakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Diprosopus Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Ha ha ha, a trivia game would be nice. Have it ask obscure questions about previous games in the series, games by other software companies, and protein folding. After which, the player can fight the Dryak-zord, with more hit points than Yiazmat from Final Fantasy XII. And that's just the first round of the fight. What, over the top a little? In all seriousness, though: A story's outcome is typically determined (if not revealed to the audience) before its conclusion. Even if the conclusion is unknown, the conclusion should only wrap up missing ends. Rather than focus on an epic fight to make the ending good, why not ask for a vibrant storyline with legitimate conflicts throughout? That does more to make a satisfying ending than any flame-spewing megabeast ever could, and should be what players want more of. Although I recognize that the player must get whatever she or he wants, so if the player wants a big battle at the end, who am I to disagree? After all, the customer is always right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Quote: Originally written by Diprosopus:Although I recognize that the player must get whatever she or he wants, so if the player wants a big battle at the end, who am I to disagree? After all, the customer is always right. Computer games and especially RPGs are, first and foremost, adolescent power fantasies, with a very few notable exceptions. What do you expect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Quote: Originally written by Diprosopus:Although I recognize that the player must get whatever she or he wants, so if the player wants a big battle at the end, who am I to disagree? After all, the septuagenarian eskimos are always right. FYT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Nick Ringer Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Given the quality and depth of the existing Geneforge games, I don't think we have anything like that to worry about. But there should definitely be some flame-spewing going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Diprosopus Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Quote: Computer games and especially RPGs are, first and foremost, adolescent power fantasies, with a very few notable exceptions. What do you expect? More notable exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Xelgion Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Is it just me, or do most of the new spiderwebbers go to G4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Quote: Originally written by Xel'Raga the Slaughtering Omni:Is it just me, or do most of the new spiderwebbers go to G4? It's just you. The rest of us prefer Avernum. Except for Tyranicus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Xelgion Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Lyric Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Geneforge all the way, and randomizer, you're not a new spiderwebbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 I want to see what A5 is like. Disturbingly enough, the Avernum and Geneforge series share certain commonalities when it comes to plot advancement. My point: Avernum 1 - A massive, epic world where you can explore and do whatever you feel like. Plus, a few main quests for plot draw. Geneforge 1 - A massive world where you can explore and do whatever you feel like. Plus, a few main ideas for plot draw. Avernum 2 - A massive, epic world in conflict, with a few limitations on what you can do. Completing the main quests is required to win. Geneforge 2 - A large world in conflict, with a few limitations on what you can do. Completing certain main quests is required to win. The third part of each series was radically different, and somewhat broke the chain, until... Avernum 4 - A large world, but highly linear. One obstacle must be surmounted in order to proceed, and all main quests must be completed to win. Game ends at a specific point. Geneforge 4 - A large world, but highly linear. One obstacle must be surmounted in order to proceed, and all main quests must be completed to win. Game ends at a specific point. Thus, I look forward to seeing A5, and possibly getting a sneak peek at the final Geneforge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Quote: Originally written by Mythrael:Geneforge all the way, and randomizer, you're not a new spiderwebbers I joined for A4. So when I was new it wasn't for Geneforge. You can look at the distribution of when people joined and most didn't come in when Geneforge games were released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Interesting analysis of Jeff's game history. The way I think it goes, though, is like this: In E1, A1 and G1 Jeff was introducing a whole new engine, and in E1-A1 and G1, a new world. So the attention was on developing the setting and on implementing a lot of isolated set-pieces with the engine. In E2-A2 and G2, Jeff was refining an established engine, and expanding on established settings and themes. He goes half-way from the big sprawl to the tight plot arc, by making a few major multi-step quests, and a few world sectors each dominated by a different group. In E3-A3 and G3, Jeff was working on a three-quel and wanting to do something different with an established world. In E3-A3 he went bigger, going topside, and made one long quest series. But I think he must have felt afterward that E3-A3 was really just going more towards standard FRPG, that it wasn't really going to have original legs enough to keep his company going. So he started on Geneforge, which was quite different. Having to build up a new world again brought him back to a more A1-like game structure. Jeff's Great Divide was really G3, I think. He tightened up the plot a lot, offering only one major choice to the player (though many opportunities to make and unmake it). He channeled the setting into a chain of small islands, and gave you explicit motivations to move along it. For the first time, he really subordinated the game world to the plot. He overdid it, at least from a commercial standpoint, and G3 was not as popular as it needed to be. In A4 he backed off a bit, taking from E2-A2 the structure of medium-sized 'chapters' within which players could wander freely. The A4 sections were tiny compared to the wide spaces of A1, but they were much less confining than the little islands of G3. As in A2 the A4 chapter areas were separated by gateways that could only be passed by advancing the main plot. The basic nature of the main plot was clear from the beginning, however, rather than being a series of out-of-the-blue surprises, as in A2. Having now been used in the successful A4, G4, and A5, I think the chapterized plot-dominated game is the new Spiderweb style. And I think it's here to stay. You can wander around within chapters, but you'll do so with a clear goal in mind, that will lead directly to the next chapter, and move you closer to the overall game goal. I think it must be so much easier to design a game this way, that Jeff just can't go back to the old sprawl style. But I think he has struck a good balance, by including enough freedom within each chapter that players stay happy and keep buying. And at least as far as I'm concerned, the plot-driven games have something big that G1 and A1 lacked: a story that's always in sight, rather than briefly flashing into view in occasional hints. So I'm happy with the change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Goldengirl Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Quote: Originally written by Student of Trinity:Having now been used in the successful A4, G4, and A5, I think the chapterized plot-dominated game is the new Spiderweb style. And I think it's here to stay. You can wander around within chapters, but you'll do so with a clear goal in mind, that will lead directly to the next chapter, and move you closer to the overall game goal. I think it must be so much easier to design a game this way, that Jeff just can't go back to the old sprawl style. But I think he has struck a good balance, by including enough freedom within each chapter that players stay happy and keep buying. And at least as far as I'm concerned, the plot-driven games have something big that G1 and A1 lacked: a story that's always in sight, rather than briefly flashing into view in occasional hints. So I'm happy with the change. This is most assuredly the truth. I believe he even said something to that effect. Looking at the Avernum 5 map, I can say that this certainly looks like it from what I can ascertain. My only critique of the chapter system, something I liked from the earlier games, is that the completed sections were done. Unless you hadn't finished a minor quest in the region or there was an item quest, there was no reason to return to the previous regions. What I'd like is if Jeff incorporated some return value, say a refugee in G5 left an heirloom in a previous province or something. Basically, after a chapter is done, the region becomes basically useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Diprosopus Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Why are you people writing (and reading) so many of each other's pages about retro, shareware RPGs? Could not your time and energy be better spent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Quote: Originally written by Diprosopus:Why are you people writing (and reading) so many of each other's pages about retro, shareware RPGs? Could not your time and energy be better spent? "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." -- Bertrand Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 As the end of semester approaches, I have the tedious task of fixing up the last of my lecture notes to post for the students. My procrastination factor is spiking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Nick Ringer Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Quote: Originally written by Diprosopus:Why are you people writing (and reading) so many of each other's pages about retro, shareware RPGs? Could not your time and energy be better spent? Hypocrisy comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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