Children

[AnarhIztok2511]

Hey, has anyone noticed a lack of (human) children in the geneforge world?

In avernum there are a lot of children, but i can't remember a single one from geneforge.

 

OK, i realise it's not such a big deal, but i just noticed.

[MagmaDragoon]

Yes, we were talking about on the topic Wow! (GF4).

[Grain of Salt]

The reason, as I understand it, is that you would be able to kill children in the game if they existed. Apparently genocide of every living thing isn't as bad as killing one child.

[MagmaDragoon]

Quote:

Originally written by Little Billy Sue:
...Apparently genocide of every living thing isn't as bad as killing one child.

Is sarcasm, or you think it really?

[Fort]

I think the caveat "Apparently" speaks for itself. Anyway, if you thought hard enough I am sure you could find some justification for killing everything in the game. I know I felt that way in Avernum. The powerful humans are always up to no good, and friendly creatures like the GIFTs can be murdered without regret because they are simply monster scum. You'd be hard pressed to find good reason for slaughtering the youth, but you could argue that the sick beggar boy was going to grow up to be a thorn in your side.

 

My motto for genocide is to leave the neutral creatures alone. Unfortunately, that leaves only livestock at the end of the game.

[Student of Trinity]

He's just describing the logic involved in eliminating children in order to eliminate the possibility of killing one, while still allowing the possibility of killing everything else in the game.

[AnarhIztok2511]

Quote:

Apparently genocide of every living thing isn't as bad as killing one child.

Well if you look at it from the biological and historical ways - if a million years ago someone killed a human child now we'd not have to worry about overpopulation, so in a way killing a child can be genocide by itself ...

[MagmaDragoon]

Oh well. I think is a genocide killing people who haven't weapons and cannot defend ourselves in a good way -- normal people, thant don't have even an armor and attack you with fists.

[AnarhIztok2511]

Yeah, that is kinda funny, especially considering how pople are afraid of shapers and you, but they still become hostile and attack you.

They are either very brave and make a stand for them selves or they are depressed and have suicidal tendencies ...

[Aran]

Nothing prevents you from killing children in the Exile and Avernum games. Faulty reasoning.

[AnarhIztok2511]

Drow, you're right, but at exile/avernum you weren't supposed to wipe out a city of peaceful folks, as fare as i remember, but at geneforge the cities of different sects can frequently turn hostile towards you when you allign.

 

But still, maybe a lack of human children would be due to maybe a catastrophe or something that made a lot of people of terestria (i hope i spelled it right) sterile and now the shapers shape humans (it also says somewhere in the introduction to one of the games that you might reshape the world, well, if one'd look further, one could see, that the only living beings are shaper experiments (even rats as mentioned in the intro to the second game)) - that'd even justify the fear and respect everyone has of shapers.

 

Gee, looking at what i wrote, i hope i didn't make too much philosophy. I'd better get some rest ...

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Drow:
Nothing prevents you from killing children in the Exile and Avernum games. Faulty reasoning.

So Jeff changed his policies since A3. It's not unheard-of.

Come to think of it, does A4 have any children in it either? I don't recall any.

[AnarhIztok2511]

King Starrus is a ... well, not a grown-up at least

Other than that ... hm, i don't remember either.

[Randomizer]

By A4 the children are probably in hiding unless you count the GIFTS babies. In A1 you had a few children like Angharad (?) who grew up in A4 to run the merchants in Cotra. I think A3 in a few towns was the last to have children unless you count some BoA scenarios.

 

Geneforge didn't have many children if I remember it. In GF2 there was one in Medab.

[Student of Trinity]

Also one in Zhass-Uss, I seem to recall. Playing behind a building where there's no other reason to go, so if the town did go hostile you could probably escape fighting the little dude. In fact I think if you're careful you can whack all the Drayks and things without hurting any of the noncombatant Serviles.

[MagmaDragoon]

Well, we are talking about human children, but the rogues children? Expecially for a Rebel, this should be important.

 

Examples: the baby Clawbugs in GF2, with the mother; or the baby Dryak in GF3, again with a CryoDryak mother.

 

Killing them is immoral? The Clawbugs are innocent (they don't attack you) and the Dryak are intelligent.

[AnarhIztok2511]

Hya, jeff should really make an option that you can shoo children away if they attack you

[Igor]

Would the meat of a baby ornk be veal?

[Radix Malorum Est Cupiditas]

Only if they're cows. Which they aren't. So no.

[Student of Trinity]

It's not clear that there are any baby Ornks. Ornks may just emerge as adults from Shaper vats. Or, in at least one case, a Spawner.

 

Or perhaps young ones are brought by the stornk.

[We Didn't Shard of Fire]

It is explained in the games that creations can reproduce on their own to save the Shapers the trouble of shaping them all.

Quote:

Originally written by Randomizer:

Geneforge didn't have many children if I remember it.

In Vakkiri, Lietz was a child.

[We Didn't Shard of Fire]

EDIT: My first double post, I think. And it was about reproducing.

[wisp]

>Or perhaps young ones are brought by the stornk.

 

Don't be silly. Baby ornks don't come from the stornk. They come when a mommy and daddy (who love each other very much) decide to fornk.

[Retlaw May]

This has been brought up before, but I wish that not every single thing attacked you in a town if they are angry (expecially spying allies).

[Dikiyoba]

Dikiyoba usually casts terror on the hostile non-combatants, like the serviles and spies in Barzite lands. It usually kills them, but Dikiyoba can pretend that they just ran off.

[Retlaw May]

In denial?

[Dikiyoba]

Hey, if Dikiyoba can kill off every Taker in the game in G1 and the end game text still talks about how the Shapers crushed the remaining Takers, then surely Dikiyoba can use Dikiyoba's imagination a little.

[MagmaDragoon]

Quote:

Originally written by Dikiyoba:
Dikiyoba usually casts terror on the hostile non-combatants, like the serviles and spies in Barzite lands. It usually kills them, but Dikiyoba can pretend that they just ran off.

You you don't just Daze/Dominate them?

Ah, EXP.

[Student of Trinity]

Quote:

Originally written by Dikiyoba:
Hey, if Dikiyoba can kill off every Taker in the game in G1 and the end game text still talks about how the Shapers crushed the remaining Takers, then surely Dikiyoba can use Dikiyoba's imagination a little.

Apprentices and rogues are forbidden by treaty from fighting except within designated square zones. So there are always lots of rogues left in the spaces between. The game never shows them, but they're there.

When you travel between zones, they line the roads and wave at you. Some of them also wave placards with bitter anti-Shaper slogans. But most of them are okay, you can talk to them; and a few operate kiosks selling snacks, drinks, and cheesy souvenirs. You know, t-shirts sized for Rotghroths, saying "I'm with Deadweight" or "My Shaper went to Inner Gazak-Uss and all he got me was this lousy shield." Swarovski knock-off glass cannon paperweights. That sort of thing.

If you don't mind kitsch it's kind of fun, actually, except that I can't stand how my Gazers never stop whining for me to buy them plastic monocles with fake noses and moustaches. "But the Eye really WANTS one!!!" Don't get me started. That, and I'm pretty sure the Drayks water the beer.

[Student of Trinity]

[Another doggone self-quote by mistake, instead of an edit. Oh well. Just so it's not a total waste, maybe I'll just use this space as a sort of post-it note to myself.]

 

[Hey, it's sort of like a homepage, only really limited in layout possibilities. I could just keep editing this accidental post, add some links, maybe do a blog, start a cult favorite comic series with bad graphics, something like that.]

[Micawber]

Thanks SOT, now everytime I see an eyebeast I'm going to imagine it in black lenseless glasses, a big fake nose and a plastic moustache. I think you have finally conquered my fear of eyebeasts. Cheers.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by Student of Trinity:

 

Quote:

Apprentices and rogues are forbidden by treaty from fighting except within designated square zones. So there are always lots of rogues left in the spaces between. The game never shows them, but they're there.

So that's where all the children are. Obviously, Dikiyoba needs to slow down and explore those non-zoned areas a little more. But all those protesters chanting "Down with Shapers! Down with Shapers!" makes Dikiyoba want to get through there as soon as possible. That, and Dikiyoba never has enough money to buy souvenirs.

[Student of Trinity]

That's the real reason you can never have more than 30,000 coins. At that point, your creations decide you can absolutely afford it, and they blow all the excess on trash in the interzone malls. You're like, "Hey! Who's the Shaper?", and they're like, "Reabsorb THIS!" To avoid going there, you pay up.

[Retlaw May]

I was a little disappointed with the mild changes brought on by the Geneforge 1. I mean, the way they were talking about it, I thought I would be a god who could practically destroy a chain of islands with the flick of his/her wrist.