Ineffable Wingbolt mikeprichard Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) As I plan my min-max munchkin run, I wanted to post for myself and other interested players this comprehensive list of triggers that change reputation, as well as selected important events based on reputation (particularly related to joining factions, meaning there are other reputation-linked events I intentionally didn't include below - notably the fact that Allizar's and Elili's prices improve with higher reputation, Lindian will only trade with you if your reputation is less than 110, and Heust Blade will only join you if your reputation is less than 100). The otherwise generally excellent GF2 Infestation Atlas has several errors in this regard, partly as it's likely based on obsolete game beta info (omissions/incorrect inclusions/incorrect values affecting Baer, Barzahl, Dhorass, Dryss, Fenen, Griffith, Igner, Issss-Ta, Kieron, Learned Pinner, Melathir, Seli, Syros, Zensital, Medab Road trapped servile), but even if the atlas is updated to match the actual full game's reputation values, I thought it would be helpful for this to be in one place. To create the list, I reviewed all game script files that include "dlg" or "dialogue" in their titles for relevant text/events involving reputation (flag "100,0"). However, I'd be much obliged if anyone who's played through version 1.0 (or subsequent game patches in case any of the below changes) would post to confirm any corrections, including e.g. to exact location and quest names, which I would then verify and use to update this list accordingly. Cheers! z0 - Drypeak Ascent Emily - destroy her as a rogue/let her live/tell her to flee - +4/-2/-4 z2 - Drypeak Shanti - reputation question - +3/-2 Keeper Thossila - reputation question - +3/-3 Keeper Thossila - Quest: Find Smart Servile - quest completion by reporting Sencia/lying about Sencia - +5/-5 Takena - tell him to destroy Wyx/tell him to spare Wyx - +2/-2 Zaph - tell him he will answer questions or pay - +3 z3 - Drypeak Warrens Zensital - reputation question - +3/-3 Zakary - reputation question - +3/-3 Zakary - can join Servant faction only if reputation more than 106 or leadership more than 5 Zakary - join Servant faction - +10 Zakary - Quest: Destroy the Magus Complex - quest completion - +5 Zakary - Quest: Destroy the Radiant College - quest completion - +10 Zakary - Quest: Slay the Taker Leaders - quest completion - +10 Zakary - tell him Sage Markov was looking for Canister Factory - +3 Zakary - sell Crystal Cone - +6 z5 - The Crags Braan - tell him you will decide what help he deserves/lie to him about more soldiers arriving soon - +2/-2 Braan - reputation question - +3/-3 z7 - Western Mines Ciphar - reputation question - +3/-3 z8 - Sharon's Grove Sharon - reputation question - +3/-3 z10 - Crystal Caverns Braan's servile - tell it to return to Braan/tell it to escape - +5/-5 z13 - Freegate Brodus Blade - tell him you do not take orders from serviles/thank him for his help - +2/-2 z14 - Medab Road Loyd Blade - reputation question - +3/-3 z15 - Patrolled Path Twini - reputation question - +3/-3 z17 - Medab NOTE: reputation more than 114 will prevent obtaining/using several Awakened quests/merchants in Medab/Belik's Crossing/Triola Carnelian - reputation question - +3/-3 Dayna - reputation question - +3/-3 Seli - Quest: Clear Medab South Road - quest completion - -3 Seli - reputation question after quest - +3/-3 Learned Pinner - tell her it is unlikely you will help/tell her you don’t know but will listen/tell her you would like to hear what she has to say - +3/-1/-3 Learned Pinner - tell her you have no interest in joining Awakened - +3 Learned Pinner - can join Awakened faction only if reputation less than 95 Learned Pinner - join Awakened faction - -10 Learned Pinner - sell Crystal Cone - -6 z18 - Eastern Medab Ghree - reputation question - +3/-3 Lorrick - reputation question - +3/-3 Zensital - tell him to help Awakened - -3 z21 - Belik's Crossing Belik - reputation question after quest - +3/-3 z25 - Magus Complex Loha - reputation question - +3/-3 z26 - Complex Core Tuldaric - reputation question - +3/-3 z31 - Triola Wald - reputation question - +3/-3 z33 - Fort Muck Herik Blade - reputation question - +3/-3 z45 - Gheth Brent - reputation question - +4/-4 Dawn - reputation question - +3/-3 Dawn - Quest: Get Escaped Serviles - quest completion by returning servile - +5 z52 - Darian's Sanctuary Learned Darian - reputation question - +3/-3 Learned Darian - ask her to tell everyone you are pro-servile - sets your reputation to 90 Learned Darian - ask her to tell everyone you are pro-shaper - sets your reputation to 110 z53 - South Rising Road Manny - reputation question - +3/-3 z55 - Rising Trace - reputation question - +5/-5 Selithra - reputation question - +5/-5 Barzahl - can join Barzite faction only if reputation more than 104 Barzahl - join Barzite faction - +10 Barzahl - sell Crystal Cone - +6 z56 - Rising North Gate Zoka - reputation question - +3/-3 Zensital - tell him to join Barzites/tell him to help Awakened - +3/-3 z61 - Radiant College Fenen - reputation question - +3/-3 z68 - Zhass-Uss Issss-Ta - reputation question - +3/-3 Igner - Quest: Spinecore Problem - quest completion - -3 Dhorass - Quest: Kill Melancon - quest completion - -3 Syros - reputation question - +6/-6 Syros - can join Taker faction only if reputation minus leadership less than 90 Syros - join Taker faction - -10 Syros - sell Crystal Cone - -6 z69 - Zhass-Uss Outskirts Baer - reputation question - +5/-5 Kieron - Quest: Recover Pre-Wand - quest completion - -3 Agent Arixy - break her chains/kill her - +5/-5 Zensital - tell him to join Barzites/tell him to join Takers - +3/-3 z76 - Taker Toll Road Dryss - reputation question - +4/-4 z87 - Buck Creek Captain Zosima - tell him he must be destroyed - +3 Grimwing - reputation question - +3/-3 z88 - Everfrost Mine Melathir - tell him his work is leading to disaster/tell him his research is promising - +3/-3 Melathir - tell him he must submit or die - +3 Edited April 7 by mikeprichard Aoslare, Mechalibur and alhoon 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) Thanks for the list. I think an important reputation effect that isn't included on the list is that the Awakened will ice you out of several quests/vendors in both Medab and Triola if your reputation exceeds 115 (this will also trigger if you join another faction). If you're going full pro-Shaper it's possible that this can immediately happen when you enter Medab. It also persists even if you get your reputation below that threshold - requiring you to fully join them to cancel the effects. Anyway, for what it's worth, I think the "optimal" path through gaming the factions (discussed here) doesn't actually require any micromanagement of shaper rep. Just consistently pick pro-servile options, use leadership to join the Servants, then join the Awakened, then when you've completed all quests that require Medab/Zhass-Uss to be friendly, have Darian swap your rep, then join the Barzites. The Takers don't really offer anything unique, so you wouldn't really need to join them at any point. Edited April 2 by Mechalibur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 40 minutes ago, mikeprichard said: z0 - Drypeak Ascent Emily - destroy her as a rogue/let her live/tell her to flee +4/-2/-4 ??? What or who is Emily?! I didn't see any Emily person, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 4 minutes ago, alhoon said: ??? What or who is Emily?! I didn't see any Emily person, I think. Zakary (the deceiver, jerkwad supreme, etc. etc.) gives you a quest that spawns her in. I'm not sure what the exact trigger is, but it happens sometime after leaving the secret tunnel. Aoslare 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Ohhhh, so I have to return back there. I didn't know. I thought the only time after the tutorial you go there is to leave and rat out to the Council what happens there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 What's unfortunately a bit more complicated to sort out in the scripts is what faction membership and quest completion enables and locks out, simply because there are so many weird little dependent variables, most of which do nothing, but a few of which lock something out -- sometimes indirectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) Here's a rough list of quest dependencies/lockouts (could be errors): Awakened Applicant (requires rep to be 94 or less, say you want to join the Awakened and Pinner will give you these, but you don't actually have to join) Find East Medab Spy Eliminate Spy Drayk Awakened Must Tolerate You (getting over 115 rep, or joining another faction will make these quests unobtainable unless you later join the Awakened. Quitting the Awakened will also prevent these) Open Shaper Pots Check Ellhrah's Tomb Kill Bandit Leaders Awakened Only Message for Muck/Triola Spy on Rising Find Control Center Find Jeek The Awakened (main quest, basically) Loyalist Encampment (locked out if you join the Barzites or Takers as this camp will turn hostile) Arixy's Rescue Melathir the Thief Spying in Gheth Barzite Applicant (need 105 rep to apply, don't actually need to join the Barzites) Barzahl's Testing (results in destruction of loyalist encampment and removal of questgiver of Spy on Rising) Barzites Only Evict Old Shaper Get Research Notes Recover Stones The Barzites (main quest, basically) Zhass-Uss Friendly (Zhass-Uss must not be hostile which will happen if you join the Servants or Barzites) Kill Melancon Spinecore Problem Recover Pre-Wand Sholai Investigation (requires talking to Syros to finish) Zensital's Purpose (final part, which gives the best reward, requires Zhass-Uss to be friendly to send Zensital here) Taker Applicant (rep must be under 90+leadership, but you don't have to join the Takers) Recover Artifact Slay a Leader (will inevitably make at least one faction hostile) Takers Only Slay Cultists The Takers (main quest, basically) Servants Only The Servants (main quest, basically) Edited April 2 by Mechalibur alhoon, Hyperion703, Aoslare and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Amazing! That's great. There are a bunch of smaller ones that aren't dependent on faction membership. - Some of these are obvious: if you complete Kill Twini you can't complete the quest Twini gives you, for example. If you complete Kill Tuldaric, you alienate the Awakened forever. - There are things faction membership cuts off (or enables) that aren't quests, like Taker membership denying you the Fort Muck raid with its irreplaceable drop; also merchants and trainers - There are also things that have nothing to do with factions. If you kill key infernals before getting the special rod from Shandoka, for example, you can never complete those quests or get their rewards - nlambert's Index lists a few other quests as faction-locked not on the list above; not sure which is accurate. for example, Recover Mutant Drayk is listed as Takers Only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Just now, Slarti said: - nlambert's Index lists a few other quests as faction-locked not on the list above; not sure which is accurate. for example, Recover Mutant Drayk is listed as Takers Only. The index is correct, but I intentionally excluded it (and the others not listed) since it's basically part of the meta-quest "The Takers." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt mikeprichard Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 (edited) Thanks, all! I made an edit in line with Mechalibur's point re: the 115 rep threshold affecting Medab/Belik's Crossing/Triola, and agree with Slarty/i that there's a lot going on in these scripts making them tricky to fully interpret (I also appreciate the linking of this topic to Strategy Central). Mechalibur's new list above is also extremely useful (though two points: the rep threshold to join the Awakened appears to be < 95, not <= 90, and "under 90+leadership" doesn't quite seem to convey "only if reputation minus leadership is less than 90" per the corresponding script). I do have a couple questions for anyone who's played through version 1.0 and/or is more adept at reviewing the script files than I: 1) Similar to GF1 Mutagen, is it the case that Learned Darian: a) will only change your reputation to 90 if it's currently greater than 90, or to 110 if it's currently less than 110? EDIT W/ANSWER: sets reputation value to either 90 or 110 regardless of current value b) will only change your reputation once - and if so, once in each direction, or once total? EDIT W/ANSWER: only once total 2) Building on part of the discussion Mechalibur mentioned at Powergaming the Sects? - Geneforge Series - Remasters - Spiderweb Software Forums (ipbhost.com), I'd appreciate any confirmations/corrections to my below detailed min-max powergaming plan to obtain the most quests/bennies/loot while trying to get the good "unaligned" ending: a) Increase Leadership to 6 and join the Servants (which will anger all Takers as long as you are a Servant), but don't do any faction main quests. b) Loot Drypeak Warrens, and buy as much spell/creation/weapon shaping training from Tyallea as possible. c) Increase Leadership to 8 and reduce reputation to less than 95 and join the Awakened, but don't do any faction main quests. d) Loot Medab and Eastern Medab, get altered by Tuldaric and buy as much spell/creation/weapon shaping training from him as possible, complete all Awakened-specific non-main quests, and fully explore the Loyalist Encampment, Barrier of the Wind, and Taker lands. e) Increase Leadership to 10 and reputation to more than 104 and join the Barzites (which will anger all Takers and the Loyalist Encampment as long as you are a Barzite), but don't do any faction main quests. f) Loot Rising and the Radiant College, get the Radiating Essence charm for giving a Conduit Shard to Lacitis in the Radiant College, buy +3 Quick Action training from Guardian Krogst in Mountain Base, and sell as many Shaper Records as possible to Gareth in Gheth. g) Tell Barzahl you're leaving the Barzites, then kill Barzahl and the Taker leaders (Akkat, Easss, and Rhakkus; killing Syros is optional) and loot all Taker items. As long as you remain unaligned with the Servants or the Awakened as of the end of the game, you will get the good "unaligned" ending. Edited April 17 by mikeprichard alhoon and Hyperion703 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Also if you do the Kill Tuldaric quest for Infernal Teriel, once you turn it in he leaves so you can never kill 4 infernal for the Emissary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 > "under 90+leadership" doesn't quite seem to convey "only if reputation minus leadership is less than 90" per the corresponding script). I think it does? If your reputation is less than (90 + leadership) you meet the qualification. It's just a much simpler way of putting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan ultra112 Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 you know I think Jeff should have some sort of index or meter that shows your reputation numbers cause it would be a whole lot better to keep track on the possibility on join which faction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 4 minutes ago, Randomizer said: Also if you do the Kill Tuldaric quest for Infernal Teriel, once you turn it in he leaves so you can never kill 4 infernal for the Emissary. He does? That's not what his script says. Are you sure? I believe the only requirements for the Good Unaligned ending are - kill Barzahl - kill the Taker leaders - no current faction membership mike's plan seems fine. Note that the Awakened Applicant quests don't really affect anything so you can safely do those; there are 4 points of Leadership from later items so raising it manually to 8 is unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 7 minutes ago, mikeprichard said: the rep threshold to join the Awakened appears to be < 95, not <= 90, Oops - fixed 8 minutes ago, mikeprichard said: d) Loot Medab, get altered by Tuldaric and buy as much spell training from him as possible, and fully explore the Barrier of the Winds. I don't think you can easily explore the Barrier of the Winds. It has 3 very high difficulty locked doors in a row, which I believe you can only bypass with a key Pinner gives you after destroying the Radiant College. It's still possible in theory, but you might be burning around 30 tools to get in. 7 minutes ago, Randomizer said: Also if you do the Kill Tuldaric quest for Infernal Teriel, once you turn it in he leaves so you can never kill 4 infernal for the Emissary. I don't believe that's correct, I was able to do both. 3 minutes ago, ultra112 said: you know I think Jeff should have some sort of index or meter that shows your reputation numbers cause it would be a whole lot better to keep track on the possibility on join which faction You can find your reputation using the cheat "gsdf 100 0" if you want the exact number. I don't believe it affects achievement eligibility. Hyperion703 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 I was sitting on 60+ tools for the whole second half of the game, and I only manually raised Mechanics to 5. (I did make a point of grabbing the Mechanics+ items, but only when I was in a nearby zone anyway.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 I remember it being you could do both quests with Teriel and then having him disappear immediately after turning in his quest in later betas. Jeff kept tweaking that infernal to block how I was doing it. He especially hated using airshock from distance to wipe him out without taking damage. Barrier of the Winds doors aren't that bad once you do the Clockwork Maze and get Infiltrator's Ring to get Mechanics over 12. Plus there is plenty of decent loot if you aren't an Awakened. You only need skill points to get Mechanics to 6 and use items and the book for more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt mikeprichard Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 Appreciate the responses; brain malfunction on my part about the "reputation minus leadership < 90" thing, because yeah, Mech's version works out the same. As for my plan, I do intend increases to Leadership to optionally include temporary boosts from the +2 girdle and/or +2 ring, though given Slarty's three simple bullets as the sole apparent criteria for the unaligned ending, I'm not sure whether I'm unnecessarily missing any good rewards by generally avoiding all faction quests after joining each of the three non-Taker factions in turn. That said, I do think (?) the first "to avoid" quests I listed (Destroy Medab Research for the Servants, Destroy the Radiant College for the Awakened, and Tuldaric's Notes for Barzy) would all anger the relevant opposing factions, which might be inconvenient, if not strictly prevent the unaligned ending. In any case, other than the Cockatrice training I don't care about and the need to burn a few plentiful tools to explore the Barrier without Pinner's key, I can't think of anything I'm missing out on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 I'm pretty sure there's no way to strictly prevent the unaligned ending. If all else fails, you can just kill everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt mikeprichard Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 1 minute ago, Slarti said: If all else fails, you can just kill everyone. Got it - basic RPG logic there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 6 hours ago, Slarti said: I remember that quote! But are you sure it was the PC to Khyryk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish Hyperion703 Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 This is HUGE. Thank you, mikeprichard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt mikeprichard Posted April 3 Author Share Posted April 3 You're quite welcome, Hyperion - hope you find it useful! Hyperion703 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 4 hours ago, alhoon said: I remember that quote! But are you sure it was the PC to Khyryk? It's in G4, and yes. (This is a screenshot of where it was copied and pasted into a web page back in 2006.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug Iguana-on-a-stick Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 3 hours ago, Slarti said: It's in G4, and yes. (This is a screenshot of where it was copied and pasted into a web page back in 2006.) Reminds me of Lilarcor the talking sword in Baldur's Gate Quote The sword whistles, incredulous. "Advice, eh? Well, besides working on your swordmanship. Besides that, I'd have to think." "Hmmm... find someone rich, and kill them. Find someone richer, and kill them, too! Hack and slash your way to fortune! Woo-hoo!!" That one came with suitably annoying voice acting too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt mikeprichard Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 Revisiting a couple points in my earlier above post re: my detailed min-max unaligned ending plan: 1) Would someone please confirm whether, in game version 1.0, you can purchase 3 points of Quick Action training from Krogst, or only 2? There was limited discussion on this in the GF2:I Atlas thread, but I'm not clear whether the 3 (or even more) points mentioned there were only possible during the game beta. 2) Would someone please be able to confirm (in spoiler tags, of course) the exact change(s) to the "good unaligned" ending slides due to canister usage? Jeff recently mentioned he's not looking to ruin the fun for players using canisters, given how many fundamental boosts they provide throughout the game, but I'm curious as to the endgame RP consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mechalibur Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 I confirmed Krost is 3 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt mikeprichard Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 Thanks, Mech! That's 6,000 gold reserved in the later game for my planned Guardian run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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