G5 - Shaper vs Rebel Classes

[jormundi]

I noticed in this game, there is an option during creation to choose between shaper and rebel classes, with some of them seemingly being mirrors of each other. I was planning on playing a shock trooper stat wise, but aligning with the shapers as I have been all of the games. Do these starting classes actually affect anything story or stat wise?

 

I tried looking it up and got very mixed answers.

[Amira The Hot Potato]

-Stat wise all of them have different stats so I'm not sure what you mean

 

-Story wise? Last time I checked, no, however if you play a servile and decide to side with and help Taygen,

Spoiler

you get a small special dialogue when you read the ending

 

[jormundi]

11 minutes ago, Amira The Hot Potato said:

-Stat wise all of them have different stats so I'm not sure what you mean

 

I mean, do a warrior and a guardian have the same stats? For example, do they have the same starting skills? Do they have the same base health/essence and gain per level?

Do their skills all costs the same?

Edited May 21, 2022 by jormundi

[Randomizer]

Class comparisons

 

The table is harder to read after the last shift to the current board software, but you can still read the conclusions. You get the same skills, but because the Shaper and Rebel classes were taken from different games, there are differences in the spell energy and essence per level.

[jormundi]

5 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

Class comparisons

 

The table is harder to read after the last shift to the current board software, but you can still read the conclusions. You get the same skills, but because the Shaper and Rebel classes were taken from different games, there are differences in the spell energy and essence per level.

This was exactly what I was looking for, thank you.

[alhoon]

Taygen would allow a SERVILE to align with him?!? 😲

[Superdeath25]

That one General in Geneforge 4 did say the Shapers had been reevaluating their policies and that they had to be practical.  Even Taygen got that memo apparently

[googoogjoob]

Something nobody's mentioned here- and this is the biggest difference between the classes- is that, due to a bug, the Shaper classes in Geneforge 5 accidentally have higher innate damage resistances than the Rebel classes.

 

In Geneforge 4, you can only select Rebel classes for the PC, so Shapers/Guardians/Agents only appear as NPCs. Since NPCs don't use equipment in the same way PCs do, their stats scale with their level differently (and usually more dramatically) than for PCs, in order to keep them challenging as enemies and reliable as allies.

 

Due to an oversight in the development of Geneforge 5, the Shaper class resistance stats were unchanged between 4 and 5, meaning that the Shaper classes in 5 have pretty substantial damage resistances that the Rebel classes don't. These resistances scale with character level, so by the end of the game, a Shaper-class character is going to be much more able to tank damage than a Rebel-class character. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it's substantial enough that it means the game is unintentionally much easier, at least later on, as a Shaper class. It more than offsets the minor HP/Essence/Spell Energy deficiencies the Shaper classes have relative to the Rebel classes, in terms of effects on game difficulty.

 

This bug wasn't caught for some time after release, and has never been fixed.

Edited May 23, 2022 by googoogjoob

[alhoon]

Guardians get a ton of essence too, IIRC. 

[Amira The Hot Potato]

On 5/23/2022 at 4:34 AM, googoogjoob said:

Something nobody's mentioned here- and this is the biggest difference between the classes- is that, due to a bug, the Shaper classes in Geneforge 5 accidentally have higher innate damage resistances than the Rebel classes.

 

In Geneforge 4, you can only select Rebel classes for the PC, so Shapers/Guardians/Agents only appear as NPCs. Since NPCs don't use equipment in the same way PCs do, their stats scale with their level differently (and usually more dramatically) than for PCs, in order to keep them challenging as enemies and reliable as allies.

 

Due to an oversight in the development of Geneforge 5, the Shaper class resistance stats were unchanged between 4 and 5, meaning that the Shaper classes in 5 have pretty substantial damage resistances that the Rebel classes don't. These resistances scale with character level, so by the end of the game, a Shaper-class character is going to be much more able to tank damage than a Rebel-class character. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it's substantial enough that it means the game is unintentionally much easier, at least later on, as a Shaper class. It more than offsets the minor HP/Essence/Spell Energy deficiencies the Shaper classes have relative to the Rebel classes, in terms of effects on game difficulty.

 

This bug wasn't caught for some time after release, and has never been fixed.

hum.. that's good to know. I didn't even know that was a thing.. or maybe forgot

[Vinlie]

I love the idea of being able to choose any class regardless of alignment in 5 because it allows to to really get into the roleplaying aspect of the game. However, my issue with the later Geneforge games is that you have this treasure trove of RPG elements - as in you can be whoever you want to be. Unfortunately, in 4 and 5 specifically, you're forced to use the Geneforge and have people look down upon you regardless of your actions. In 5 you're pretty much the chosen one and was pre destined to shift the tide of war. 

My favorite game for roleplaying is definitely 3 just purely based on because you're simply a foot soldier in the Shaper army. You aren't a trained Shaper yet, but your destiny is not yet chosen. You aren't forced to use the canisters or a Geneforge for story purposes so you're able to change the perspectives of people in the game based on your actions rather than an arbitrarily pre chosen outcome. You can be a loyal scourge of the Shapers that people will fear and respect, or you can be a freedom fighter rebel (even without the use of canisters!) that becomes a beacon of hope for others. Anyway yeah, classes are cool, what a tangent.

[Superdeath25]

Geneforge 3 is quite excellent and my favorite.  It gives the best sense of progression as you go island hopping.  I enjoy the praise I get from the Shapers as I free the islands from rebels, and it has the best artifacts. Geneforge 5 is pretty good too, although the difficulty can be overwhelming at times.  I don't like 4 very much due to the numerous impossible areas and that so many Shapers are hard-coded to be hostile regardless of where your loyalties lie, plus the double agent aspect isn't that well done.  Also, the artifacts aren't that great

[Vinlie]

9 hours ago, Superdeath25 said:

 Also, the artifacts aren't that great

The gloves of savagery are pretty awesome tho.

[Superdeath25]

The gloves of savagery are the only artifact worth making judging by the stats, and they are outclassed by the Ornkskin gauntlets due to the endurance boost, unless you really want the extra Quick Action.   In Geneforge 3, I have the all protector, Emerald CHestgaurd, and the Avenger's Ring by the end, plus I also make the Talisman of Might.   The Emerald Chestguard totally deserved to be in 4 and 5, and would have helped tremendously

Edited May 31, 2022 by Superdeath25

[alhoon]

In my modest opinion, every artifact that doesn't make my creations stronger is subpar to one that would level-up or boost up my creations. Also, for the items that give +X to strength to creations, that doesn't work, I have modified the game to give +X level to damage and +X to hit. 

(check my signature)

Edited June 1, 2022 by alhoon

[Vinlie]

On 5/31/2022 at 3:14 PM, Superdeath25 said:

The gloves of savagery are the only artifact worth making judging by the stats, and they are outclassed by the Ornkskin gauntlets due to the endurance boost, unless you really want the extra Quick Action.   In Geneforge 3, I have the all protector, Emerald CHestgaurd, and the Avenger's Ring by the end, plus I also make the Talisman of Might.   The Emerald Chestguard totally deserved to be in 4 and 5, and would have helped tremendously

Maximum offense for me all the time. The only endurance boosting item that I run in G4 is the (sadly nerfed from 3) Symbolic Cloak granting 2 endurance.