Loving this game! Some feedback

[supercow]

Not sure if Jeff (or anyone from SWS) will ever read this, but:

 

1. The flexibility of the creation system and all the various upgrades you can add is awesome. I am enjoying playing with it to find powerful combos.

2. I miss the ability to use keyboard shortcuts for _everything_, including interacting with objects/containers and attacking enemies. (I know this is not a change that is specific to Mutagen, but it seems like a newer trend for Jeff's game to not have this)

3. The overworld map is... not my favorite. I really miss the way the 2nd Avernum trilogy did it with a full seamless map and no overworld transition. If that's too much to ask, the Avernum 1 remake's style of having a tile-based overworld map is not as good but is acceptable. I'm not a fan of Mutagen's system.

 

Overall, this is still my favorite SWS game since Avernum 6. I think the story is much more compelling than Queen's Wish, and there's still plenty of depth to exploring (I hated the way QW did away with junk items, so I'm glad to see that come back here).

Edited March 2, 2021 by supercow

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

Geneforge games always had this map system. I expect the remakes will all keep it.

 

Frankly, I like this system much better than any of the Avernum type maps. It's less immersive in some ways, but a lot easier to have an overview which makes me less likely to miss stuff, and it lets me break up my gameplay time in well-defined chunks. And it eliminates the walking-across-the-map gameplay the overland-map style games have, which frankly tends to be much less fun than exploring areas.

 

I can certainly understand why someone would prefer the other types of map. If you love exploring for secrets on an overland map or just find this type of map too game-y, it's probably not for you. But for me this system simply lets me enjoy the game the most.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Iguana-on-a-stick

[mikeprichard]

I really abhorred the second Avernum trilogy's approach to the world map - having everything occur in such a small "real space" had the effect of shrinking the game world into a tiny area of about only one-two miles across, rather than giving a true immersive sense of the vastness of the caves (i.e. in the original trilogy/remakes, the distance between Silvar and Cotra really was the 50 or whatever miles it said on the signs in-game, not... 200 feet). This treatment of the world maps is actually a major pet peeve of mine with some RPGs, also seen to their great detriment in the later Elder Scrolls games, for example. (A "continent" the size of a few football fields? No, thanks.) I very much hope Jeff doesn't revert to that in future games.

But I didn't mean to go off on a rant/tangent here - glad you enjoyed the game overall! I think he did a really nice job with the remake, and loved the changes to creation mechanics - really brought what was previously a somewhat one-dimensional aspect of the game to life.

[Mechalibur]

Personally, the Geneforge series probably has my favorite iteration of Spiderweb world maps. Clearing zones in order to pass through them freely was a great idea - it cuts down on the tedium of world maps in Avernum/QW, while being a bit more interactive than Avadon.

[supercow]

On that note, I've got a question.

How exactly does the "clearing zone" thing work? I noticed I cleared a zone in the middle of a fight while there were a bunch of enemies still alive.

[Randomizer]

Some zones become clear if you kill a certain number of hostile creations. The number Varys for each one where that is the requirement.

[alhoon]

How does the $%^#$ zone outside Pentil clears? I have killed the %^$*^ Spawner that made Vlish and the zone still isn't clear. I walk on my toes trying to avoid any lingering Vlish, as a screeching Vlish = the end of me. 

[TriRodent]

Pentil Woods (I think that's the name, where you are anyway) requires that you kill the majority of the vlish.  Getting the spawner is nice (& will get you a quest reward elsewhere), but doesn't do anything for zone clearance.

 

Hit & run man, hit & run...

[BenS]

I'm loving this remake, but in the spirit of constructive criticism (and this thread), there are 2 quality-of-life things I'm missing: first and foremost, the inability to be able to cherry pick what I want to sell from my junk bag. My inventory is so relatively small I use the junk bag for extra storage, but can't sell the stuff in it w/out manually removing what I want to save for later. Very time-consuming & tedious. Less important but it was in other games...the ability to split stacks. I can't move and wield a massive amount of javelins, but if I could split the stack, I could manage just fine.

[alhoon]

We can't split anymore? But I think I did split a stack... 

[mikeprichard]

You can split stacks with Shift-click.

[TriRodent]

6 hours ago, BenS said:

the inability to be able to cherry pick what I want to sell from my junk bag

Shift click has been covered...

 

What I did to keep my junk bag more or less for getting rid of money making items & not as an expanded inventory pack was to use a village/friendly zone as a warehouse.  The area around the merchants in Pentil had piles of thorns in one area, crystals that I didn't want to sell in another, equipment that I 'might' want to use at some point in another, etc.  Not the most elegant solution granted, but it worked (be sure to set up your warehouse in a zone that you can actually access your junk bag...don't ask how I know this...sigh).

 

/the selective use of your junk bag was brought up to Jeff during the beta testing...shrug

[mikeprichard]

I didn't see Shift-click covered earlier, which is how you split stacks (and why I mentioned it above as relevant to alhoon's immediately previous question).

Edited March 4, 2021 by mikeprichard

[BenS]

Well now I feel foolish for not trying to split stack (shift click); I don't think it was mentioned in the instruction manual is my (poor) excuse. As for the warehouse idea, yeah, I use the eastern edge of Pentil for that near the merchants. But I would still dearly love the ability to selectively sell items in the junk bag! Sometimes you want to have some backup items against particular enemies, and the backpack gets full so quickly and easily.

Oh, funny...I'm a garrulous glaahk here 😁

[TriRodent]

1 hour ago, mikeprichard said:

I didn't see Shift-click covered earlier, which is how you split stacks (and why I mentioned it above as relevant to alhoon's immediately previous question).

If that was directed at me, the 'it's been covered' was to Ben as to why I wasn't helping him with that.  No worries, communication this way is certainly an imperfect way to do things...

[mikeprichard]

Yeah, I realized that later, TriRodent - no problem! To BenS' point, I also would love to be able to selectively sell junk bag items, and find the limited inventory space much more tedious than challenging, but I understand the latter it least is a very intentional decision on Jeff's part - and inventory management is still wayyyyy (way) better than it was in the original.

Edited March 4, 2021 by mikeprichard

[TriRodent]

56 minutes ago, BenS said:

But I would still dearly love the ability to selectively sell items in the junk bag! Sometimes you want to have some backup items against particular enemies, and the backpack gets full so quickly and easily.

Jeff's theory/logic on that was that inventory was what you are physically able to haul around with you at all times (thankfully without weight limitations such as in A4) & so it's limited.  The junk bag is just a magical space warp where you can stick stuff that you may want to sell at some point (to avoid the drudgery of picking up a few things, running back to town to sell them, going back to get a few more, rinse, lather, repeat...).  It isn't supposed to be an expansion of the pack on your back/your pockets.

 

So while I understand the why, I may not completely agree with it, but it does come from a logical thought process.

[Randomizer]

The junk bag was added as a fast way to sell loot that you only wanted to sell to eliminate the old method of clicking on the tiny coin icon each time. It wasn't intended to be extra inventory storage which is why it no longer could be accessed any place and especially in combat.

[Slawbug]

The 'seamless' overworld map of the Second Avernum Trilogy only exists in those 3 Spiderweb games, and... while I know plenty of people liked it, overall, it definitely generated the most negative feedback of any SW map system.