Kyshakk Koan RaustBlackDragon Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Is it actually true that Shapers designed serviles to enjoy the work they do, or is it just a PR excuse lie? And if it's true, what's up with the intelligent serviles? Was that eventually eroded out of their genetics, or is it some kind of addiction they've had to rise above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Of course serviles love to work and if they don't there are plenty of whips and shackles to help motivate them. Hard work for a servile is what they love most. Intelligent serviles came about on Sucia Island. While some have appeared elsewehere, most are rebels. However the kindly Shapers have added an ability to command new intelligent servile to kill itself so they won't get out of hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 [media] [/media] Had to be done. Yes. Their brains were designed dumb. Others were created smart. The dumb ones actually LIVE to serve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 The implication of Learned Clois (in G1; I think that's her name), never followed up on so far as I know*, is that serviles are really just humans, albeit somewhat magically modified / warped ("shaped") and perhaps bred for certain traits. The rise of "intelligent" serviles suggests the potential was there all along, just beat down and / or killed whenever it manifested. To the extent that serviles are dumb, or love work, or whatever, it is most likely an effect of nurture rather than nature. Anything the shapers say to the contrary is propaganda to outsiders, or simple blindness and self-deception, or perhaps even a deliberate effort by some to assuage their own consciences. *Although the eventually reality of a single geneforge compatible with both humans and serviles (i.e. the G4 and G5 geneforges) does imply that serviles and humans share the same general genetic code (think by comparison of the problems when the player uses a geneforge for a different species in G2 and G3). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Goldengirl Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 *Although the eventually reality of a single geneforge compatible with both humans and serviles (i.e. the G4 and G5 geneforges) does imply that serviles and humans share the same general genetic code (think by comparison of the problems when the player uses a geneforge for a different species in G2 and G3). Chimps and humans share all but 1% of DNA, and we wouldn't really say that they're similar. I still side with serviles being their own species, originally Shaped. As for whether they love to serve, I'd say it's a propaganda tool. Some intelligent serviles, such as the scribes, rationally pose that they dislike working but it's all they know, as well as the fact that it's safe. The dumb serviles don't even know better. For them, to work is to live, and why wouldn't they love life? Therefore, from whatever instinctual network made life desirable, so to is work desirable. Or at least, that's how I'd explain the dumb serviles. Yes, smart and independent serviles started on Sucia, but those there were originally the loyal variety as well. There's no reason they'd be any different. Moreover, there are regular serviles, both intelligent and dumb, who defect to the Rebellion from the Shapers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Given how little is made of it it's probably not true, but I can see how having serviles could simultaneously have an ingrained love of work and rebel. We don't see many indolent serviles, after all! But the intelligent ones may love their work while hating their masters. A chance to do work for themselves might suit them just fine, and the rebels certainly have no lack of work to go around. —Alorael, who may be reading a lot into the phrasing. But the serviles who love to work may not love to serve at all. Images of independent-minded, hardy frontiersmen spring to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Chimps and humans share all but 1% of DNA, and we wouldn't really say that they're similar. I still side with serviles being their own species, originally Shaped. G1 posits that humans were Shaped from serviles, long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Chimps and humans share all but 1% of DNA' date=' and we wouldn't really say that they're similar.[/quote']Uh, in most situations, yes, we would say that chimps and humans are very similar. Humans and chimps share so much DNA because it wasn't all that long ago (in evolutionary terms) that they were a single ancestral species. Anyway, there's no good evidence for serviles being humans beyond being able to use the same Geneforge, but Shapers do have more of a record of modifying or mixing-in existing creatures (lizards, dogs, bats, already existing creations) than of shaping creations from scratch. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan RaustBlackDragon Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 Uh, in most situations, yes, we would say that chimps and humans are very similar. Humans and chimps share so much DNA because it wasn't all that long ago (in evolutionary terms) that they were a single ancestral species. Anyway, there's no good evidence for serviles being humans beyond being able to use the same Geneforge, but Shapers do have more of a record of modifying or mixing-in existing creatures (lizards, dogs, bats, already existing creations) than of shaping creations from scratch. Dikiyoba. It's also a point of great pride for shapers that they never shape or experiment with their own kind, which also suggests the serviles don't have such a history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Wizard Orcasus Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I think the Shapers like to play with their DNA that's why the creations that are humanoid may not be smart but still do things that humans can do to but with some muscle behind. P.S I can't believe they would shape themself into another human version and at the same time their dumb and doesn't look like humans that much. but are still humanoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 It's also a point of great pride for shapers that they never shape or experiment with their own kind, which also suggests the serviles don't have such a history. Heustess of G1 also indicates that the very first Shapers definitely shaped on humans, though. We don't know when the law against shaping humans was put into place. Serviles, or some other human-based creation, could have been created before the law was put into place. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Shapers show a great ability to deceive themselves, to convince themselves, for example, that serviles ARE happy to work, or that NOTHING could go wrong with altering a drayk to be able to shape, or... Shapers are also either terrible historians and record keepers, or deliberate suppressors of knowledge of the past, since, for example, they essentially lost track Sucia Island for 200 years (to say nothing of apparently having no knowledge of their own origins). Anything shapers claim about serviles or their origins really must taken with a grain of salt; that doesn't mean there's nothing to learn, but shaper sources should be evaluated critically. As for distinguishing themselves from serviles, well, it wouldn't be the first time a group of people heavily invested racial supremacy did their best to emphasize the purported inferiority of the lower caste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Shapers are also either terrible historians and record keepers, or deliberate suppressors of knowledge of the past it's the second one: it's mentioned a few times throughout the series that information about forbidden shaping is expunged from shaper records so that people won't go and seek out barred knowledge except that kind of falls apart as soon as somebody stumbles across it by accident Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 except that kind of falls apart as soon as somebody stumbles across it by accident It'd work a whole lot better if they'd actually destroy the forbidden shaping, or at least collapse several tons of rock on top of it. You know, what the Shaper workshops and research centers are supposedly designed to do. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Purity officers are supposed to deal with the problem as in Dhonal's Keep in GF3. But then like most Shapers they slack off and let newbies deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk adc. Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Love to work? They intentionally made mindless, and the Shapers with an iron fist to rule. ---------- -Red-eyed Phantom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Wizard Orcasus Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Serviles don't love to work. when they grow intellegent they get as lazy as us humans. I say we should live with the serviles as equals and still keep the power of shaping ( and perhaps magic) under a close watch. but the Drayks and Drakons are just too arrogant and not without saying that when your too arrogant you can make foolish choices and get your self killed or destroyed. But still I would like an adventurer world. ( PSSSS thats what brings the real fun doesn't it?) I know that most of us are not lazy but you know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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