What is wrong with summons?

[SapientCrow]

Been trying to figure out summons for a while now.

I summon something it stands there for what seems to be 2 rounds before engaging. Often times it will stand there the entire fight around the corner never moving.

Is there some special way I need to work summons to have them properly work?

I can not place them where I want or command them so how do they engage. If I want to use them often I need to actually summon them before the fight and literally stick them in front of the door then doing battle then if they get hit they seem to activate.

any suggestions/ideas?

[Lilith]

You pretty much have to summon monsters while standing no more than a few spaces away from an enemy and within sight of it if you want them to do anything reliably. It's not usually worth it.

[xuerebx]

I'm more concerned that they never hit anything. Useless, except for soaking up damage for one round or two (then they die).

[Lilith]

I've found exactly one situation where summons are very useful: summoning a shade when fighting other shades, to tank their attacks. They'll bash at each other for zero points of cold damage until the cows come home, allowing you to attack them more safely.

[ShieTar]

Originally Posted By: xuerebx

I'm more concerned that they never hit anything. Useless, except for soaking up damage for one round or two (then they die).

The thing you are missing is the fact that there is a trait that you can take 3 times, which will increase the summons level by 2 each time. The way summon/monster level work (as far as I understand it), is that 6 level will give them 30% hit and evade chances, on top of some extra-HP. On normal this is sufficient to push them from useless to usefull. On torment probably not.

That is assuming that you will use a summon-spell appropriate to your level, so arcane or divine summon quickly enough, and not continue to use the lvl 2 critter summon with a lvl 25 party.

Of course, you still need to summon them close to the enemy, as stated above, so having a summoner mage that hangs back while the Frontline Fighter storms into the enemy army does not usually work.

Having 4 Mages hiding behind their summons works just great though.

[Randomizer]

Also shades are useful versus mental attack foes since they are immune.

[Zummi]

Summoned slimes are immune to acid damage too. Does the Summoning Focus trait have a major impact on summons? I editor'd it to 5 levels and it really didn't do much but I'm not as investigative as other members here.

[ShieTar]

Mmh, well, as I understand it 5 levels should mean +25% hit and evade chance per pick, so +75% hit and evade with three picks. Basically that should make your summons always (=95%) hit and always evade at normal difficulty.

 

Maybe I find some time to test and proof it this weekend.

[Kreador]

Summons can also be helpful in situations where you know you're going to get caught between two groups of enemies. I'll summon some creatures to slow down groups that come up behind me. Did that once in the Kill the Emperor quest and made the mistake of sending a character into a room. The summon stepped into the doorway and just stood there. Would not move until it finally faded away.

[SapientCrow]

I usually use them as meat shields for set up but I cant figure out how they get placed when I cast nor do I really understand how they activate. Sometimes they seem to get right into battle and other times they stand there indefinitely and do nothing. So As it is posted it takes a proximity for them to activate?

 

I do use the summon shade for other shades. Of course it took an hour just to get a shade placed right in the cramped tunnels so it was not blocked and could get in there to fight.

[ShieTar]

Ok, just did a little testing. My theories stated above are correct, taking the trait 3 times will increase the summons chances to hit and to evade by 30%(=3x10%) each.

 

At the same time, Hard mode will decrease those values for you and your summons by 25% and torment mode will decrease each by 50%. So in torment the summon with 3 traits is still weaker than in normal without traits. But hey, so is your player.

 

Also, the general evade rates of summons near the endgame seem to be only slightly lower than those of a DEX character, definitly worlds above a STR or INT character. On Normal Difficulty this means that with 3 traits they have a very good, often 95%, chance to dodge attacks from normal enemies. They also seem to have 90% armor (Vengeful shade summoned by a lvl 30 character), so they do survive for a good time.

 

Originally Posted By: meAzuma

Summoned slimes are immune to acid damage too. Does the Summoning Focus trait have a major impact on summons? I editor'd it to 5 levels and it really didn't do much but I'm not as investigative as other members here.

 

The editor only allows 3 levels in this trait, as does the game. Maybe you raised elemental focus instead, which sounds similar but does something else entirely?