A6 - Are Bulky Items worth it?

[llmercll]

Hello everyone! I'm new here and just had a quick question on bulky items and "to hit" chance. I'm just wondering if these are typically worth it, and if not, why.

 

I'm also curious if hit effects spells as well as melee.

 

thank you!

 

EDIT* I'm also wondering if theres a bank or "safe" chest I can put my collected loot in without it disappearing.

[Triumph]

So many skills contribute to your ability to hit that the reduction from certain pieces of armor is pretty much meaningless. So if a piece of armor is otherwise good, don't worry about it.

 

Don't know about whether the hit% reduction affects spells; I would assume so.

 

You should be able to able to leave loot literally anywhere without it disappearing. There are maybe a few places you shouldn't, because you can only visit once or they get destroyed, but basically you can choose a favored or convenient place (or places) and pile stuff there.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Many favor Portal Keep, since you go through it so frequently.

 

For that matter, depending on the extent of your pack rat-itude, you may not even need to. I generally carried quest items, crafting ingredients, such wands/scrolls/potions as I actually used, and the occasional alternate piece of equipment. This took up about 1.5 characters worth of inventory space at most. I found that I almost always had to return to town to heal up before I ran out of inventory space.

[llmercll]

Thanks for the advice guys =) I'll store my stuff at portal keep as you recommended. Although considering how inventory space is measured by squares, not weight, I can see how it may not even be necessary.

 

That leads me to another question. What you equip counts toward your weight, and if you max it you become encumbered which lowers your combat effectiveness.

 

Both my mage and priest took the NM trait to wear more armor, does that mean if for example my encumberence is 40lbs, I can actually wear 50lbs without suffering any loss (+25%)?

 

thanks!

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Nope. Item weight and 'bulky item' work in different ways:

 

-Bulky items reduce chance to hit (which, as Triumph points out, very rarely matters), and past a certain point prevent the character from casting mage (and only mage, not priest) spells. I'm not exactly sure where that threshold is, but I think it's around 20% total penalty to hit. The trait 'Natural Mage' either removes this possibility or sets the threshold much higher (I've had magi with up to 35-40% hit penalty who can still cast spells).

 

-Encumbrance reduces AP available in combat. It has no effect on spellcasting ability.

[Erebus the Black]

Remind me again, why did Jeff change priest magic to be affected by encumbrance from A5 to A6?

 

Up to A5 priests were not limited by armor only mages.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

He didn't. Priest spells aren't armor-restricted, and never have been. Priests (and magi, for that matter) take the same penalties from encumbrance that everyone else does, which have no specific casting-related effect: only the usual one of having fewer AP to take action, spell-related or otherwise.

[Triumph]

To try to clarify the distinction a little more, encumbrance comes from the weight of items a character equips; it doesn't matter which items, it's simply a matter of weight versus a character's strength. Certain items (i.e. armor) have the "bulky" quality; wearing too many "bulky" things (regardless of their weight) will hinder casting mage spells (unless one has the natural mage trait).

[Erebus the Black]

So my first reflex was correct, taking NM for a priest is useless. Unless you want to make him part mage for the haste and etc...?

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Almost useless. It gives you points in magical efficiency, but there's no reason to take it over pure spirit unless you plan take some levels in mage spells.

[Triumph]

Yes, if you want to just have dedicated priest, you're better off with Pure Spirit.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Triumph

To try to clarify the distinction a little more, encumbrance comes from the weight of items a character equips; it doesn't matter which items, it's simply a matter of weight versus a character's strength. Certain items (i.e. armor) have the "bulky" quality; wearing too many "bulky" things (regardless of their weight) will hinder casting mage spells (unless one has the natural mage trait).

This is exactly it. A lot of very good late-game gear isn't bulky anyway, so it's just a matter of having the strength to wear it without slowing down.

[llmercll]

Aww that sucks. I went with NM for my priest because I thought it affected healing as well.

 

I'm playing on torment, all humans (lol), and these decisions matter (though I'm sure it won't be my downfall). Is there any way to change a trait?

 

and while I'm at it, are there any skills I shouldn't invest points in and just purchase training for? I hear that's a pretty important choice as well =)

 

thank you for the help!

[Ceiling Durkheim]

You can change traits with the character editor. I wouldn't even call it cheating to do so, since you're not getting anything extra, just reversing a basic character creation decision whose consequences weren't clear to you.

 

As for skills to hold off on buying, there's a list of trainers here: http://www.spiderwebforums.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=188910#Post188910

 

If you're looking to get some battle disciplines for your casters (and it's probably a good idea to do so; conventional wisdom on the forums suggests that you're best off getting to adrenaline rush by the endgame), it's better to buy points from trainers before using skill points for them. Ditto for mage spells if you have a character you want to minor in magic.

 

You get access to a trainer in nature and arcane lore early on, but it's pretty overpriced, and I'd say probably not worth it.

 

Most of the skills that are really worthwhile to buy from trainers are the ones you have to wait to unlock: anatomy, lethal blow, magical efficiency, gymnastics, sharpshooter, and parry in A6. This is more obvious, though, since you literally can't spend skill points on them until you have enough points in other skills.

[llmercll]

Thanks so much everyone, you've all been very helpful!!

 

But now I need to know, should I hold on to all my unenchanted rings and necklaces? gold ring, platinum ring, etc. Or are they meant just to sell?

 

I'm holding on to all my crystals, herbs, and bars of metal so far, I'm assuming theres some sort of crafting system =p

 

sorry if this is too many questions, and thanks so much again everyone =) =)

[Triumph]

This link lists things you need for collection quests or crafting.

 

 

[llmercll]

Wow, I don't need to hold on to very much at all =)

[llmercll]

Just wondering if the "Flawless Crystals" quest ever gets cleared from the log. I've given her over 10 crystals and got the ruby necklace, is there any point to giving her more?

 

Also if anyone has any tips for the "second construct test". I'm playing torment and they just destroy me, even with an invulnerability potion.

 

thanks!

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: llmercll

Just wondering if the "Flawless Crystals" quest ever gets cleared from the log. I've given her over 10 crystals and got the ruby necklace, is there any point to giving her more?

You get a small amount of experience for each crystal you turn in after that.

Quote:

Also if anyone has any tips for the "second construct test". I'm playing torment and they just destroy me, even with an invulnerability potion.

If you keep your main tank invulnerable to take all the hits and have everyone else heal him, you should be able to get through it. If that strategy doesn't work, you should probably just come back later when you have more HP and better armour.

[Randomizer]

Also go into melee with the red construct since its melee damage is less than its missile fire attack. As Lilith said pile the best armor on the highest health character and make it your lead character. You just need to survive and not destroy them.

[llmercll]

Thanks, the tank+invulnerability potion method worked ok for me, but didn't do the job. The potion runs out before the constructs stop attacking, and I'm not sure I want to use 2 valuable potions on this.

 

Once the potion runs out it's a matter of 1 turn before I die =p

[llmercll]

Anyone know the earliest point I can learn the return life and dispel barrier spells?

 

thanks!

[Triumph]

I think the soonest you can earn Dispel Barrier is to do a quest for AGASS-ESS (a mage at the Tower Colony) to fetch some stuff from under the haywire Great Portal. Not sure about Return Life because I never used it...

[Randomizer]

You can get the dispel barrier spell by doing Gladwell's quest in the Mertis Spiral and that is slightly easier.

 

Return Life spellbooks are both in the Eastern Gallery after doing the Abyss -

AL 7 - Eastern Gallery 10 (Abandoned Workshop)

AL 8 - Oculus Cult

[Øther]

Also, about those invulnerability potions: Yes, they are rare, and yes, they are valuable. And because of this, players tend to use them very sparingly, and almost never sell them. THe thing is, in the entire game, there only a couple fights players seem to deem worthy of using the invulnerability potions or elixirs on. This means that by endgame, many players have a massive stock of the potions that they havent used. In my playthrough, i used the potions on only two battles, and because I had so many, my entire party had enough to last the entire long battle, and still have plenty left over. You can always come back later to finish the quest, as quite a few people have said, but you can just use another potion, since it wont really set you back in the long run.

[Lilith]

To be fair, if you want to win one particular optional battle, you straight-up need a massive stock of invulnerability potions.

[Tirien]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

To be fair, if you want to win one particular optional battle, you straight-up need a massive stock of invulnerability potions.

To be even more fair, that particular optional battle changes the ending. And is probably the hardest fight in the entire series. (At least to me it was.)

[Earth]

1 non-avoidable battle and 2 optional battles.

[Randomizer]

The 2nd construct test was one of the few places I used two and it's worth it just because it will be a long time before you can do that fight without them.

[llmercll]

Yup I used 2 and had no problem =)

 

So far I'm having an absolute blast. I haven't been this "into" a game for a long time. I think the difficulty has a lot to do with that, I usually get bored with games quickly because they are too easy, even on their hardest setting.

 

Torment difficulty is perfect, as I need to strategize and actually think to win battles. I'm currently at the Tower Colony and just finished the quest where I had to retrieve the documents on the upper floor.

 

As I creep toward the end of the game I get sad knowing it's going to be over haha. I'm guessing that I'm about halfway through right now, maybe a little more but not much. Don't really know though.

 

How would you experienced guys rate avernum 6 compared to the older ones? If I were to play another one which would you recommend, 5?

[Randomizer]

Avernum 5 is the closest to Avernum 6 in style and difficulty. Avernum 4 was the first with this engine, but lacks battle disciplines and has some other flaws including a weak plot and flat terrain.

 

Avernum 1 and 2 are considered the best for plot, but it's a different game engine and some people don't like them.

[Soul of Wit]

Originally Posted By: llmercll

How would you experienced guys rate avernum 6 compared to the older ones? If I were to play another one which would you recommend, 5?

AV6 is a fine conclusion to the series. It is the favorite of many players. I'm also a big fan of AV3. It is bigger on exploration and has a time-is-valuable element. Be aware that the first three are very different (engine-wise) from the latter three. Many here are fans of AV5. It has a nice uptick in difficulty about half-way through. Personally, I found it far too linear. IMHO, AV4 is the worst of the series. It is also very linear. Of course, you can't go wrong by starting from AV1 and playing through.

[llmercll]

Thanks for the input =)

 

is mercuric leather any good? I don't know what "battle speed" is and if it's worth it. I also have the bonding knife and wonder if it's worth the side effects. I've got a lot of saved up fine leather and steel and wondering if theres any advantage to holding onto them for longer, and if not, a recommendation on what I should craft =)

 

thanks!

[Øther]

It may not be worth it at this point of the game, but eventually it probably will. Battle speed is how many action points you get per round. Eventually, once you get two items that boost AP, they will be extremely useful. Wearing two of them will garentee a character two actions per round, every round, unless slowed, stunned, etc. However, you wont get much out of one AP booster. You can hang on to that leather until you get another, but it may not be for a while. Also, there are better AP boosting gear than the leather, but it your choice if you want to keep it or not. There is also someone who can craft mercuric leathers if you bring him enough fine leather.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Or if you have points in quick strike. But yeah, 9n + 1 are the magic numbers. 10 is easy enough with +AP items, quick strike, and such. 19 AP is technically possible without the 'Adrenaline Rush' battle discipline, but you need all 3 types of +AP items (shoes, armor, pole weapon or shield for +3), quick strike (up to +2), the fast on feet trait (up to +1), and haste (+5). 28 is possible with Adrenaline Rush, haste, and 3 AP worth of other bonuses.

 

The best craftable items appear very late in the game, so it's worth it to save at least 10 focusing crystals and fine leathers/steels for the endgame.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: FnordCola

Or if you have points in quick strike. But yeah, 9n + 1 are the magic numbers. 10 is easy enough with +AP items, quick strike, and such. 19 AP is technically possible without the 'Adrenaline Rush' battle discipline, but you need all 3 types of +AP items (shoes, armor, pole weapon or shield for +3), quick strike (up to +2), the fast on feet trait (up to +1), and haste (+5).

You can stack the effects of speed potions with skribbane to raise your AP even higher. That's going overboard for 99% of fights in the game, though.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

You know, I don't think I ever tried that. I just assumed they were the same effect, a la speed potions and Battle Frenzy. If I ever get around to finishing that Torment run, I'll probably try that on Zahur "unspeakably foul series of curse words" Firecaller.

[Øther]

If the icon looks different, then it can stack. Skribbane gives a variety of bonuses other than just AP, so that's why it has a different icon. And it just so happens that you can get the REAL haste from items, and that gives just a haste, so the icon is different from skribbane. Some effects cant stack (wards, cloaks) but speed can.

 

Also, battle frenzy isn't nearly as useful as it was in A5. It used to give you what skribbane gives you now. Now it just gives bonus AP. That's not bad, but it was better.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

That, and battle frenzy doesn't stack with haste. It actually gives substantially more AP now (5 vs. 2), but back in A5 those 2 and the 2 from haste worked together, whereas now frenzy just gives you (the stronger form of) haste.

 

All told, I think battle frenzy is underrated on these forums. It's true that adrenaline rush is the discipline you want to use (in tandem with haste wands/scrolls) in the hardest fights, as well as the easiest, but I actually find myself using frenzy much more than rush overall. With my fighters, I find I use rush in about the easiest 20% and the hardest 10% of battles, and frenzy in the other 70%. After all, you only get about 50-100 uses of group haste in the game, and there are far more encounters than that, not even counting the fact that you're likely to use haste 2-4 times in the hardest/longest fights. There's no long-term limit on hasting yourself with frenzy. The main difference now is that it isn't worthwhile to get the extra 4 points of battle skill for pure casters.

[Aoslare]

Given the huge number of skills melee-oriented characters have to invest in, and given that beyond a certain point investing in melee/pole is a sub-par way of increasing damage, that may also be true for melee fighters, and is almost certainly true for impure casters too.

[Flipstylez]

Exile 2 was my favorite plot. =]