Garrulous Glaahk Unplayable Playable Character Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Hello. The first thing I would like to say is to compliment you guys on your nice little community here. I've frequently visited these boards before and I'm impressed at your ability to keep all of this up. In fact I'd like to become part of this community, but I just don't have that level of dedication necessary to do so (I'll probably make a few post here and there before fading out with the rest of the less frequent visitors). Now to get on to the point; here it is: I would like to make a fangame. I know this may seem like an ambitious thing to say, especially in a first post. I know many people do that on game forums. We play this game that we think is seriously awesome, and we think "I'm gonna make one just like this, but better!". I know how that is, I used to think like that too (I think every twelve year old thinks like this when they first discover Flash or Gamemaker, the later in my case). Of course that was a while ago, when I was that age I learned that once you actually sit down and TRY, you realize it's not quite as easy as you expect. I know some of you are expecting me to list some impossible-sounding goals, talk like I'm gonna get them done, then not be able to get past the first step. Some of you will sigh and shake your head when I say that I will be using gamemaker, for that is what I'll be using. I'm pretty proficient with it; I've using it to make stuff for about 6 years. I want to keep it simple, one step at a time, because I don't know how far I'm going to be able to get through with this, So, on to the nature of my fangame. No, it's not a Geneforge clone. I'm sure a fair number of you know what HOMM (Heroes of Might and Magic) is. Basically what I want to do is make a game with the system of homm and the theme of Geneforge. Armies of creatures in stacks are carried around by "Heroes" who run around collecting resources, conquering towns, and fighting rival armies of creatures in stacks. It's as much of a HOMM fan game as it is a geneforge fan game. So why do I want to use the Geneforge theme specifically? I could definitely use another fantasy setting, and it'll probably be easier to work with. The thing is, I want to capture the strategic aspect of geneforge. I want to make a game that simulates control over an army of mutant creatures instead of just a group. Also, because I know someone will suggest that I use Avernum (or something to that extent), with Geneforge I have many of the resources that I need, so I don't have to worry as much about that and can concentrate more on programing (and I've never played Avernum, only Exile 3). Yeah, I'm gonna use the graphics that come with the game. It may not look pretty, but this isn't about looking pretty. Now to get on to the fun stuff. As in homm, the game will feature a map view, a battle view and a town view. Getting each of those started is going to be my first step. If I'm starting to sound over-ambitious then I should point out that I've done programs similar to each of those before and that this won't be something new to me. The map view shows your heroes and things things that they can interact with, such as towns, creatures, resource mines, etc. The town view appears when a hero enters a town or when a town is selected. In the town you can build buildings, hire troops and distribute them either to heroes or the garrison. As I've said before, I want to use the graphics from the game, which makes the global POV more or less the same, except map view would show more. For town view maybe I'll come up with something simple with 3d stuff, such as with Bryce, instead of using game graphics. The game will have one map with three factions fighting over it. The player may play as any of the three. These factions are: 1) Loyalists Self explanatory if you've played the game. They will have more powerful spells, troops, and creations, but also more expensive. 2) Separatists An independent group not loyal to the rebellion or the shapers. Something like the Barzites from the second game. Will have access to both Shaper and Rebel spells and creations, but not to the same extent as the corresponding factions. Will also have some unique features. 3) Rebels Also pretty self explanatory. Mostly controlled by Drakons, will have access to illegal spells and creations such as spawners which are cheaper but more chaotic. Possibly have geneforge which creates Unbound, but at a high cost. The plot is stand alone and isn't directly related to the plots of any of the games, though would take place after GF3 but before GF5. Combat will be turn-based, similar more to HOMM, but each creature may attack before or after being moved, and if it doesn't attack it may move again. "Units" of creatures will be placed in stacks, though unlike HOMM, there is a limit to how much each stack holds. An infantry stack, for example, would hold up to (more or less) 50, while an eye beast, being a fiercely independent creation, would be limited to one per stack. There will also be more room on the combat map than in HOMM. In the town population affects what and how much of you can build, town population can be increased through building and decreased through attacks on the town or rebellions. Your popularity with the town decides certain factors also; a town more loyal to you will produce more troops than one that is less, and a recently conquered town may rebel in which case you put it down with your army or gold, or the town goes out of your control. You can increase your town's capability to produce troops through buildings, and you may also appoint shapers/lifecrafters to create and control creations. You collect resources via resource generators found across the map, and also some you may find yourself. I would like some suggestions as to what to use for resources, because I don't remember exactly what materials they use in the games. That's basically an outline of what I'm hoping to get accomplished. If you would like to know more about some aspect specifically, just ask. To prove that I'm actually serious about attempting to do this, I'll work on a prototype of the "map view", having a character walk around on a map and collect stuff, and I'll try to post it for download ASAP. I would really like to hear your suggestions, opinions, ideas, whatever you have to say about this. I know I wasn't that specific about everything, and that's because some things I just don't know what to do with, but I'll work it out along the way. One question: is it fine with Jeff that I'm attempting to make this and that I want to use the graphics and such? Hopefully I'm not breaking any legal bounds, but if I am I'll just stop working on it and won't mention it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Zummi Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 It's not the first though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Hypnotic Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 I hope you suceed at this. It sounds interesting. I think Jeff will be okay as long as you do not sell it or make any kind of profit off it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ouroboros Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: A Figment Of Your Imagination One question: is it fine with Jeff that I'm attempting to make this and that I want to use the graphics and such? Hopefully I'm not breaking any legal bounds, but if I am I'll just stop working on it and won't mention it again. I suggest you e-mail Jeff personally, because Jeff rarely log in to forum and I hope you succeed, your game is interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Jeff has previously licensed rather than purchased graphics, so they may not actually be his intellectual property. If that's the case, he can point you to the proper party to ask, but I think he has been buying the pretty pictures outright for a while. He's also previously been lukewarm at best towards fan adaptations, but it can't hurt to email and ask. —Alorael, who now finds himself musing on the possibility of adapting Battle for Wesnoth's open-source engine to the task of making Battle for Geneforge. Battle for Avernum would be much easier, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan inni Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Good luck on making your game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Unplayable Playable Character Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 Battle for Wesnoth, eh? *Looks it up* Seems interesting, the selection of races does resemble Avernum (well, Exile) to some extent, so in that aspect it would be easier. But is easier more fun? @Azuma Not the first fan game, or not the first attempt to combine geneforge with something like homm? Anyway, just got to working on it tonight. I intended to use a square grid for the map view, but realized that it's too awkward to work with, so switched to iso. Oh, and Merry Christmas everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk The Knight Who Said Ni Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Battle for Wesnoth is a good, open game. You could have it summon creatures, too instead of soldiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Unplayable Playable Character Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 Sent Jeff the email, still waiting for reply. So I'm close to completing the basis for map view, for now movement will be restricted to arrow keys since path finding is not my forte. I would like some suggestions as to what I should use for resources. Like what they are used for, and where you would get them. Here are my ideas: Gold: Gold is used as currency in the Geneforge world, collected from mines Crystals: Collected from mines (ie: Drypeak mine), used for Shaper equipment Wood: Pretty self-explanatory, collected from lumber mills Stone/Ore: Used in making structures, collected from mines I'll need a few more resources. Also, my current computer only has GF5, so could anyone email me the preGF5 drakon graphics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Originally Posted By: A Figment Of Your Imagination Also, my current computer only has GF5, so could anyone email me the preGF5 drakon graphics? You can always download the demos since they will have all the graphics files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan inni Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Originally Posted By: A Figment Of Your Imagination I would like some suggestions as to what I should use for resources. Like what they are used for, and where you would get them. farms, you can collect thorns for batons and grow living tools for agents.more ideas on the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Unplayable Playable Character Posted December 26, 2009 Author Share Posted December 26, 2009 Well, farms would be the resource generator and thorns and living tools would be the resource. Those are too specific, I was thinking more general resources. @Random Good point, I'm surprised I haven't though of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan inni Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 also research labs for discovering new creations, sevirel training camps like the one in geneforge 1 for workers, alchemist lab for potions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Geneforgeisformeyukkyu Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 This sounds like a good idea, but if it is going to be text-based, I will be totally against it. I don't really like text based games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Well, if you don't like it then the project should be canceled. —Alorael, who isn't sure why a game in a style you don't like deserves opposition. A different game won't be created in its place by the one person offering to program one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Unplayable Playable Character Posted December 27, 2009 Author Share Posted December 27, 2009 Who said it was going to be text-based? I explicitly mentioned graphics more than once. Anyway, just got done with some annoying chores today, ones that do not involve programming in the least. In fact, I've done very little programming in past day or two, and realistically speaking things are most likely going to continue at a slow pace. But they will continue. I've shifted my focus to the combat. Having a little trouble implementing a hexagonal grid (because square grids are for squares). But it's nothing I can't overcome. I don't know how much I'll get to work on this after the break, but I'll try to get a day's worth of programming in at least once a week. For now I've been working in small bits, because I have other things I would like to accomplish before the break ends, but I'll do my best to make a commitment and not abandon this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Zummi Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 What are you using to make the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Originally Posted By: meAzuma What are you using to make the game? Originally Posted By: A Figment Of Your Imagination Some of you will sigh and shake your head when I say that I will be using gamemaker, for that is what I'll be using. i know there were a lot of words in that post but come on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Unplayable Playable Character Posted December 27, 2009 Author Share Posted December 27, 2009 Thank you, Thuryl. Yes I'm using gamemaker, since as I've stated I want to keep it simple and gamemaker is pretty good with keeping it simple (as opposed to Java, IMO). I know a lot of people say gamemaker has limited capabilities, but there really isn't much you can't make with it if you try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish Shaper Cirikci Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 a resource could be essence made from a chemical processing tunnels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Geneforgeisformeyukkyu Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Originally Posted By: Shaper Cirikci a resource could be essence made from a chemical processing tunnels Or maybe it is made from growing those creatures that manufacture their own essence from using light and special food given to them by the shapers/workers. It would be like a farm animal, you have feed it and take care of it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan inni Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Originally Posted By: Geneforgeisformeyukkyu Originally Posted By: Shaper Cirikci a resource could be essence made from a chemical processing tunnels Or maybe it is made from growing those creatures that manufacture their own essence from using light and special food given to them by the shapers/workers. It would be like a farm animal, you have feed it and take care of it . but this is a war based game (i think) not a farm based on. (you can't take care of animals, you have an army to run). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Geneforgeisformeyukkyu Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Originally Posted By: I need no introduction Originally Posted By: Geneforgeisformeyukkyu Originally Posted By: Shaper Cirikci a resource could be essence made from a chemical processing tunnels Or maybe it is made from growing those creatures that manufacture their own essence from using light and special food given to them by the shapers/workers. It would be like a farm animal, you have feed it and take care of it . but this is a war based game (i think) not a farm based on. (you can't take care of animals, you have an army to run). Originally Posted By: I need no introduction also research labs for discovering new creations, sevirel training camps like the one in geneforge 1 for workers, alchemist lab for potions. If there are going to be research labs, why can't there be animals that are created to serve those purposes within the research labs? By the way, I said like a farm animal, not that it had to be farm-based, and shapers used creations (basically animals/plants/fungi) in wars. I could have said, "Like a war creation but suited for war". Also, I could have said plant because it is essentially like one, since it uses sunlight and other things to keep itself alive, and create essense. Oh and if it is going to be somewhat like geneforge, there are going to be peons(serviles, peasants, etc) to take care of the animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast *i Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 The best advice is to keep it simple. When you want to introduce a concept or aspect to a game, ask yourself, "What does this really add that will make this game more fun for a player?" If you cannot come up with a good answer, don't add it. Remember, more is not always better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan inni Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Originally Posted By: Geneforgeisformeyukkyu Originally Posted By: I need no introduction Originally Posted By: Geneforgeisformeyukkyu a resource could be essence made from a chemical processing tunnels Or maybe it is made from growing those creatures that manufacture their own essence from using light and special food given to them by the shapers/workers. It would be like a farm animal, you have feed it and take care of it . but this is a war based game (i think) not a farm based on. (you can't take care of animals, you have an army to run). Originally Posted By: I need no introduction also research labs for discovering new creations, sevirel training camps like the one in geneforge 1 for workers, alchemist lab for potions. If there are going to be research labs, why can't there be animals that are created to serve those purposes within the research labs? By the way, I said like a farm animal, not that it had to be farm-based, and shapers used creations (basically animals/plants/fungi) in wars. I could have said, "Like a war creation but suited for war". Also, I could have said plant because it is essentially like one, since it uses sunlight and other things to keep itself alive, and create essense. Oh and if it is going to be somewhat like geneforge, there are going to be peons(serviles, peasants, etc) to take care of the animals. Quote: It would be like a farm animal, you have feed it and take care of it . what i meant was taking care of it by yourself would be hard in a game were you control an army, you have a good idea i just misread it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Unplayable Playable Character Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 Wow, this is getting more hype than I thought. I should stop procrastinating. Originally Posted By: Geneforgeisformeyukkyu If there are going to be research labs, why can't there be animals that are created to serve those purposes within the research labs? By the way, I said like a farm animal, not that it had to be farm-based, and shapers used [...] to keep itself alive, and create essense. Oh and if it is going to be somewhat like geneforge, there are going to be peons(serviles, peasants, etc) to take care of the animals. Stareye basically said the point I was going to make about that. I want to keep it as simple as possible, for now. I've been working mainly on the hexagon grid. And I use the term working lightly because I didn't do anything with it yesterday and today I only got to mess with it a little bit. I did take the liberty of going through the graphics folder a taking out a bunch of graphics that I think I'll probably want to use later. I also came across some pretty interesting things that I haven't seen before. Like some kind of item that looks like a heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish Shaper Cirikci Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 you mean solidified flame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Unplayable Playable Character Posted January 1, 2010 Author Share Posted January 1, 2010 No, i mean like an actual, organic heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Would that be the Gruesome Charm graphic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Hypnotic Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 Originally Posted By: Geneforgeisformeyukkyu Or maybe it is made from growing those creatures that manufacture their own essence from using light and special food given to them by the shapers/workers. Are you describing a spawner? They use and do not make essence. Essence is more a supply for the army. Although there are plenty of Shaped weapons and soldeirs use essence so it could be a resoucre need to create units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Unplayable Playable Character Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 Did you mean these? Originally Posted By: GF1 The goo inside a pool is a semi-living, plant-like form, capable of drawing energy from the air and the sun. If you stand near a pool, you will be able to replenish your health or essence, depending on which pool you use I don't know how I would manage essence as a resource. Essence is, after all, specific to each Shaper. @Thuryl: Well, it looked like a gruesome charm. I've never found it before, so I wouldn't know exactly what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Hypnotic Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 As I understand from memory and a demo of Heros of might and Magic, resources can be collected from locations outside of citys. A location that brreds essence pools would make enssence. Than the essence is spent on making units. All Shapers use the same essence. Only spanwers use a differnt kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Shaper Tristan Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Originally Posted By: Hypnotic Originally Posted By: Geneforgeisformeyukkyu Or maybe it is made from growing those creatures that manufacture their own essence from using light and special food given to them by the shapers/workers. Are you describing a spawner? They use and do not make essence. Essence is more a supply for the army. Although there are plenty of Shaped weapons and soldeirs use essence so it could be a resoucre need to create units. i think he is refereing to the life and essence pools, any mages would require a steady inflow of essence, plus essence used to create shaped gear, and of course for shaper creations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Mages apparently don't need essence, and essence seems to regenerate in shapers over time, which isn't the same as regenerating it from an essence pool, which can also fuel permanent shaping things, but not like the pools that run spawners. —Alorael, who thinks a wizard did it, except which wizard and how is still quite unclear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Shaper Tristan Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 you can cast the same spells as a mage in the game, if your spell costs essence we can assume that the mages must meet the same requirement. while i cant recall the exact phrase i belive that shapers do regenerate essence naturally, however its still much more efficiant to use a essence pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Geneforgeisformeyukkyu Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Originally Posted By: A Figment Of Your Imagination Did you mean these? Originally Posted By: GF1 The goo inside a pool is a semi-living, plant-like form, capable of drawing energy from the air and the sun. If you stand near a pool, you will be able to replenish your health or essence, depending on which pool you use I don't know how I would manage essence as a resource. Essence is, after all, specific to each Shaper. @Thuryl: Well, it looked like a gruesome charm. I've never found it before, so I wouldn't know exactly what it is. I meant this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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