Games without superiority complex heroes?

[aapo]

I love the philosophy of how the game sets the player in the world. You're not the almighty god of universe, effortlessly slaying everything you come across. A logical thing, yet so non-obvious in RPGs. After playing Spiderweb software games, going back to other games with superiority complex heroes feels like insult to player. Do these respawning monsters have any purpose besides giving xp to player? Stark contrast to stealth and diplomacy needed to get past foes and gain favor of entire factions. You're not the law; your actions carry consequences. Very 'mature' way to write a story.

 

What do you think?

[Alorael at Large]

Somewhat ruined by the fact that you can easily steamroll through all opposition late in the game. It would be very interesting to have a game that actually required you to stay on someone's good side so that you had allies and support to help you on your way, but I don't know of any games like that at all.

 

—Alorael, who nevertheless agrees that Jeff pulled off several rather unusual and nice things in Geneforge. For his money, the nicest is the fact that since you're not almighty, you're working for someone. Who you side with determines what your endgame will be. There isn't one final foe no matter how you comport yourself. That's a good thing.

[aapo]

Technically, all you really see are strings of text, but when the options are written in a way that invokes strong immersion of existentialism, that is the defining moment of quality game. It's all in your head and it makes you think.

 

Well done Jeff Vogel.

[Duck in a Top Hat]

Quote:

You're not the almighty god of universe, effortlessly slaying everything you come across.

I beg to differ. My favorite thing about G1 is how you are clearly the strongest force on Sucia Island besides Trajkov. The first Taker quest is to kill the leader of the Awakened. The first!

[Artemis~]

Well, i like no, LOVE jeff's games, but it's not realistic.

 

especially for a bunch of teenagers, who now think that they can get anything done if they put their minds to it.

 

Need demotivation? Talk to Artemis!

[Drakon Sssharxx]

Originally Posted By: Outkast Artemis

Need demotivation? Talk to Artemis!

Isn't 'play vidio games' and acctual perscription given by doctors for depression now? Your just offering to be... Err whats the opposite of a doctor?

Another point to add, isn't the reason to play games for a fair amount of people to get that feeling of power and sense of influence in the world, whether its fake or not some people just need that feeling every now and then to remind them that they shouldn't give up on their dreams.

[Student of Trinity]

If it wasn't for video games, I would not be playing video games today.

[Artemis~]

wow. that was the smartest thing i've ever heard anyone say. i'm just a loser with noting to do over summer break: so, OUT COME THE LAPTOPS.

[Drakon Sssharxx]

Same pretty much, i was just createing excuses that kids cann tell their parents from returning from the doctors tehe.

[Alorael at Large]

Originally Posted By: Drakon Sssharxx

Isn't 'play vidio games' and acctual perscription given by doctors for depression now? Your just offering to be... Err whats the opposite of a doctor?

I don't think so. It might become something for which doctors prescribe treatment, though.

—Alorael, whose addiction problem is only related to games. Specifically, E3. More specifically, orange glass bottles.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

If it wasn't for video games, I would not be playing video games today.

Yeah, I grew up on video games. Remember the Atari 2600, and how amazing it seemed at the time?

Originally Posted By: Alexander and Cinnamon

—Alorael, whose addiction problem is only related to games. Specifically, E3. More specifically, orange glass bottles.

Been there; maybe we need a support group. My name is The Mystic, and I'm an RPG addict. Specifically, RPGs with an infinite supply of cash readily available.

[Alorael at Large]

No, no. You misunderstand! I'm not addicted to video games. I'm addicted to a substance from a video game.

 

—Alorael, who gets no respect when he tries to join a 12 step program with green crust oozing from his mouth. Needless to say, the results after meetings when everyone walks out into the street can be regrettable after the heat of the moment (and the previous hour or two of patient waiting).

[Artemis~]

woa. You were ALIVE when Atari came out? that's kinda disterbing.

[Drakon Sssharxx]

Hmm i dident remember the atari but i was raised on the Amega 900. I think it was 900 it was either 900 or 9000...

[Artemis~]

wow. I grew up on the very first playstation, playing a cheap graphic version of Mario and Luigi. i look back, and cant remember how i ever thought it was fun.

[Drakon Sssharxx]

i dont remember playing a specific game on the amega, i was about 5 or 6 when i played on it. i then had computers untll i got an xbox.

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: Artemis in her Village Hut

woa. You were ALIVE when Atari came out? that's kinda disterbing.

I was alive when there was only Pong and you were grateful to have a white dot to hit.

Before that the computer games were Tic Tac Toe and Nim unless you had access to a mainframe to play Adventure.

[Artemis~]

...Is anone ELSE 40 around here?

 

anyway, i like playing computer games better, simply because it's more convienent then going to Bestbuy and purchasing those cute little cartriges. Which is why i'm on this forum right now. That's kinda why i like Jeff's games so much, because they dont have things trying to kill you immediately: these games aren't based on reaction time, and i just like RPG's.

 

~Confessions of a Gamaholic~

 

to the comment below: That's what Alien Shooter by Sigma Games is for. XD

[Drakon Sssharxx]

I prefer games with a good story element too, although i do get the occasional urge to shoot the crap outta some aliens. Other than them odd times its RPGs all the way.

[Student of Trinity]

There are several at least moderately active members over 40. There are people with houses, careers, kids. If this is disturbing, well, you know, the Internet is a scary place. You can never tell whether the real person behind the PDN is fifteen or fifty, male or female, sane or psychotic.

 

I always used to have a sort of vague but smug feeling that decades prior to the 1970s were a bit silly. Not quite serious times, somehow. People didn't really know what they were doing, and whatever they did didn't fully count, anyway. It was quite a while before it occurred to me that this broad historical judgement might have been connected to the fact that my own earliest memories were from the early 70's.

 

Pong was lame even at the time.

[Alorael at Large]

Originally Posted By: Artemis With a Sword

...Is anone ELSE 40 around here?

There are periodic demographic surveys of Spiderweb. While there aren't many people over the age of thirty, the number isn't insignificant either. And there are a few members who are well over 40!

—Alorael, who has nothing to say beyond what is revealed in his profile except that you shouldn't trust everything you read or anything you don't.

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

Pong was lame even at the time.

QFT

But for a while it was the best available game. Which shows you the sad facts about computer gaming. All the cool games were on mainframe computers where only the science nerds could play them. The rest of you had to put up with lame games.

SoT - You missed the fun 60s living near an anti-ballistic missle base in case the godless Commies started heating up the Cold War.

[Artemis~]

I'm getting dizzy now. Anyone who survives the 60's deserves special treatment. pong? [twitch,twitch.]

 

[epic faint]

[Alorael at Large]

Originally Posted By: Artemis With a Sword

Anyone who survives the 60's deserves special treatment.

Redundant, really.

—Alorael, who really thinks the 90's are the exceptional decade. It was the first time there wasn't a global military crisis, real or perceived, since the 1930's. (For Americans, at least.) It was the first time there wasn't really a crisis of any kind since the 20's!

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Artemis in The Airport

woa. You were ALIVE when Atari came out? that's kinda disterbing.

Sort of. I was born a little later that same year.

Originally Posted By: Two fists: Shokk and Awww

No, no. You misunderstand! I'm not addicted to video games. I'm addicted to a substance from a video game.

—Alorael

Sorry, I momentarily forgot about your skribbane habit. I haven't been able to download any properly to try it.

[Student of Trinity]

An interesting point that I keep remembering now was made by Paul Krugman: the era of really rapid technological change ended around 40 years ago, but we've maintained a sort of cultural myth of continuous advance ever since. I actually think things may have begun picking up just a bit in the past few years now; but I'd say he's basically right.

 

My grandfather grew up in a world drawn by horses and lit by kerosene, without radio or plumbing. By the time he had grandchildren, his television was showing him men walk on the moon. That's radical change. Going from Pong to Crysis, from typewriter to Google Docs, or backpack radio to iPhone, is merely refinement.

[Sleeping Dragon]

Cars aren't just refined horse drawn carriages? A trip to the moon isn't just a refined flight across the Atlantic? I must disagree with you and Mr. Krugman. I would never take the past 40 years of technological advancement for granted. I think the information revolution has had impacts on our society at least as great as the industrial revolution.

[Randomizer]

The only real advancement in the last 40 years was the integrated circuit chip.

[Sleeping Dragon]

Not to shoot my own argument in the foot... but that was more than 40 years ago. I still think the internet is a pretty important invention, though, unless you want to actually travel around to each individual computer to see what they have going on in their chips.

[Alorael at Large]

The internet may not be a mechanical engineering feat or moment of pure inspiration like cars, planes, or telephones, but I think it's every bit as big an invention. Still, I agree. Our inventions now tend to be refinements and new applications rather than brand new things.

 

—Alorael, who on the other hand thinks the field you're looking at makes a big difference too. Some areas of science are still doing remarkable and entirely unforeseen things. It's just that they don't affect most end consumers in an obvious way.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

Originally Posted By: Ignoble Flush

The internet may not be a mechanical engineering feat or moment of pure inspiration like [...] plains, [...] but I think it's every bit as big an invention.

I agree. If the Flying Spaghetti Monster hadn't invented plains, animals like buffalo and giraffes would have nowhere to live!

[Goldengirl]

Well, genetic engineering is still advancing by leaps and bounds, from what I hear. We're not Shapers yet, or anything, but progress is being made.

[Alorael at Large]

Genetic engineering is making promises by leaps and bounds. How revolutionary is it really? Some. We can alter genes, and it's of huge benefit to biomedical research. Improved crops are already a reality, but public backlash has slowed progress there. The market's too uncertain to justify heavy corporate investment, so the funding has dried up. Medically, we're a long way away from doing anything more than breaking animals, and we're even farther from being able to ameliorate or augment very specifically. And altering adults? Not soon.

 

—Alorael, who thinks the broad field of medicine is a better example. Look at survival rates of once-certain death. AIDS? A chronic disease now. Cancer? It depends on the type, but if you're lucky you can have quite good odds when forty years ago your best hope was a death that wasn't miserable.

[Untamed Banana Slug]

From memory, gene therapy has been used to successfully treat a small number of genetic disorders.

 

Like you just mentioned, the populance's fear and paranoia slows advances in the field of genetic engineering geared towards humans. All popular media I have ever seen regarding the issue (Bioshock, Gattaca, Star Wars, *Geneforge*.) paints a world with genetic engineering as some sort of dystopia. I guess the drive for self-improvement isn't that strong in some people, you'd think that people would leap at the opportunity to become healthier, stronger, faster, and more resilient.

[Student of Trinity]

The internet is great; but that's basically all we've got to show for forty years, and the lifestyle change it has made, from exchanging physical mail, talking on the phone and watching television, is not as radical as the things that happened to my grandparents. There's been medical progress, but my grandfather's generation saw the discovery of antibiotics, and suddenly people stopped dying from the minor injuries that had been killing humans for millions of years. In his lifetime there were dozens of huge changes like that. We think we're living in this great era of change that our forebears could never have imagined, but it was those old guys with their Model T's and big cabinet radios that knew real change.

[Drakon Sssharxx]

Haveing grown up in and around computers and all sorts of 'modern' devices I find that, yes a lot of technology has been refined, there is a lot more technology been discovered. if we're talking about the last 40-50 years then you forget nuclear power. and already they know that fusion power is possible. Then there is fiber optics, the invention that ALLOWED the internet. The internet was planned but was not considered plausable until fiber optics.

 

Then you have The laser which is implemented in so many beneficial ways, from brain surgery to mesureing buildings. The jet engine allowing for faster travel, humans capable of traveling faster than the speed of sound. These are not refined versions of other things they are made possible by the refined vesions of other things, but in themselves they are new discoveries. They are overshadowed by the smaller microchip, the smaller radio.

 

You forget to think about the advancements made in psycology and our understanding of the human brain. The discoverys in sport and how our body functions as a whole, the complexity of the human body can teach us so much more than we could learn from makeing robots. I could go on to list many new discoveries that so many people do not realise are new discoveries because they have grown up with them.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug

From memory, gene therapy has been used to successfully treat a small number of genetic disorders.

I wouldn't call it successful, exactly. In one case, the patient died due to a severe immune reaction to the virus used to deliver the gene. In a few other cases, the patient developed cancer within a couple of years of treatment. Gene therapy hasn't been a complete failure, but so far it's resulted in a lot of risk for some pretty disappointing results.

Originally Posted By: Drakon Sssharxx

Haveing grown up in and around computers and all sorts of 'modern' devices I find that, yes a lot of technology has been refined, there is a lot more technology been discovered. if we're talking about the last 40-50 years then you forget nuclear power. and already they know that fusion power is possible. Then there is fiber optics, the invention that ALLOWED the internet. The internet was planned but was not considered plausable until fiber optics.

Then you have The laser which is implemented in so many beneficial ways, from brain surgery to mesureing buildings. The jet engine allowing for faster travel, humans capable of traveling faster than the speed of sound. These are not refined versions of other things they are made possible by the refined vesions of other things, but in themselves they are new discoveries. They are overshadowed by the smaller microchip, the smaller radio.

Pretty much all of the inventions you mentioned are more than 40 years old. Fibre optic cables have existed since the 1950s, and so have nuclear power plants. Lasers have existed since the 1960s. Practical jet-powered aircraft have existed since the 1940s, and jet engines existed long before that.

None of this is to say that there haven't been technological advances in the past generation, but the examples you picked don't really support your case.

[Sleeping Dragon]

I still disagree Student of Trinity. Again, cars are really just a new application for combustion in order to refine personal transportation. The first ever TVs and radios were a huge achievement, but ones I would place the internet next to as far as importance.

 

We are living in tough times, and it is typical for people to turn to nostalgia when things get really bad. They reminisce about how much better the times were back in the day, even though if you were to suddenly forced to live with forty year old technology, you would probably find life unbearable compared to how you live now. Penn & Teller did an episode on nostalgia that explained this phenomenon far better than I could. You should check it out.

 

And remember, it could always be worse. We could be living in year 1000 Europe, a time when there hadn't been a single major technological advance for the last millennium. They thought that science was essentially over. Maybe technology does come in sudden bursts, and if that is so, forty years with 'only one' huge major advancement is nothing if you look at the greater human history. We are incredibly fortunate to be living in the times that we are.

[nikki.]

Originally Posted By: Sleeping Dragon

And remember, it could always be worse. We could be living in year 1000 Europe, a time when there hadn't been a single major technological advance for the last millennium. They thought that science was essentially over.

Those guys had magic though, right?

[Sleeping Dragon]

I must admit even I get nostalgic for the days when we had magic.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Sleeping Dragon

And remember, it could always be worse. We could be living in year 1000 Europe, a time when there hadn't been a single major technological advance for the last millennium. They thought that science was essentially over.

Actually, science wasn't over; it was just synonymous with heresy.

Quote:

Maybe technology does come in sudden bursts, and if that is so, forty years with 'only one' huge major advancement is nothing if you look at the greater human history. We are incredibly fortunate to be living in the times that we are.

If technology does come in sudden bursts, we've been in a huge one, and it's still going. There have been more major technological advancements since the dawn of the twentieth century than in the previous million years. If that's not a big burst, I don't know what is.

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

The only real advancement in the last 40 years was the integrated circuit chip.

Maybe, maybe not. I do know for a fact that my laptop is roughly the same size (though half as thick) and weight of a ream of paper; forty years ago, it would have been roughly the size of a city block, ten stories high.

[Alorael at Large]

SoT never said the past was better, he said that progress, especially breakthroughs, have slowed. He's largely right, but deceleration does not mean that are technological velocity is zero. Things are still better now than ever before, and if climate change goes catastrophic things may never be this good again. Doom.

 

—Alorael, who questions the popular idea of the dark ages as technological void. Science had not been invented yet, but advances still occurred. The three fields system (re)invented around the 12th century was about as big a breakthrough as the green revolution fifty years ago. And it's not as though invention proceeded at a breakneck pace in the golden ages of Greece or Rome.

[Namine]

Wouldn't this be g4? if you stay on shapers you get rewards and don't lose many stats points, and when your with rebels you can have an easier time with that crazy shaper with the servile technicians.