Fledgling Fyora Quis Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Just started Geneforge 4 and enjoying it. Got a couple of questions. a) I need a frigging mule! One human character is not enough for all the stuff I want to carry. I just passed the cairns checkpoint - do I eventually acquire extra human PCs who can haul a backpack or failing that a special place to stash my treasures? Canisters, is there a way I can work out how many I have already consumed and how many is too many? I am thinking I should pass up most canisters unless they are a significant benefit. Quis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 You can stash your items wherever you like: they'll stay where you left them. The entrance to a friendly town is a good place. The penalties for using canisters are only significant if you plan on working for the Shapers, so if you want to stay with the rebels, go nuts with them. In general, try not to use much more than 10 throughout the game. If a canister gives you a new creation or spell that's useful to you, it's normally worth using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 a) What Thuryl said about storing items. He got there first. There's an internal counter that keeps track of how many canisters you've used; each canister you use adds one to this total. There's no limit to the number of canisters you can use, but you start noticing dialogue changes at about six canisters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Also, if you've used to many canisters, you will have to fight your way out of situations you could of talked out of instead. The Thahds near Turubia Gate are an example. The Last Archon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Thuryl You can stash your items wherever you like: they'll stay where you left them. The entrance to a friendly town is a good place. The only thing to watch out for is putting too many items in an area. Earlier games definitely had a limit of 200 items in a single zone (though stacked items only count as one). Dikiyoba thinks the limit still applies in this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd Avid Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba The only thing to watch out for is putting too many items in an area. Earlier games definitely had a limit of 200 items in a single zone (though stacked items only count as one). Dikiyoba thinks the limit still applies in this game. Maybe so... Although, my PC has left a pile that was so large I had to keep moving him/her a bit so more could be put down and nothing ever disappeared... well over 200 items including the 'stuff-to-keep' that was in the same area. However, if there's a worry, you can always walk the area and tote out all the rocks, trash, and miscellaneous items that you can grab but are worthless (e.g. capes, food) and put them in another area. Those things are part of the area's count; assuming there is one in GF4. If so, it seems to be much higher. Later, Avid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: Avid Maybe so... Although, my PC has left a pile that was so large I had to keep moving him/her a bit so more could be put down You could just store stuff in a container (like a cabinet or jar). Then you wouldn't have to move around like that, and everything will be in one nice little pile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd Avid Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: The Mystic You could just store stuff in a container (like a cabinet or jar). Then you wouldn't have to move around like that, and everything will be in one nice little pile. My bad on how I wrote that. I meant, I have to take a step because the buffer gets full. All the 'to-keep' stuff is usually in jars, boxes, cabinets and (if waiting to be sold) on the ground, depending on where the PC is. If I take over a room, then I tend to get really organized, which is probably a bit obsessive. But, at least I can easily find a particular thing without having to page through a ton of stuff. LOL And, all the boosters for the anvil are in the same room as the anvil. (Wish my house was as organized as the game!) I sometimes think there's more time spent making sure things are where they can be found than fighting! Later, Avid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fledgling Fyora Quis Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 Thanks for the advice. I have littered the area around enchanted anvil with all sorts of stuff. I have to say though I am finding inventory issues the most irritating aspect of the game. A shame you can't lifecraft a mule (with two heads and half a dozen tentacles). Quis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ouroboros Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 That is creepy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Whats creepy? The Last Confused Archon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ouroboros Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Quote: a mule (with two heads and half a dozen tentacles) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 You don't have to create your own mule, just make a Roamer the size of an elephant. As long as you can keep it under control, you should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall The Ratt Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 meh. I prefer ornks. Less likely to be able to kill me if it goes rogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 (considers the matter) That works too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Ornks and Roamers are for beginners. Kyshackks are were its at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan jlsgaladriel Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Quote: I prefer ornks. Less likely to be able to kill me if it goes rogue. And yummier than mules, too, if you find yourself in a blockaded province. But be careful: there are rumours some of 'em talk back. I've never heard of a talking roamer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Desmarestia Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Originally Posted By: Acky Kyshackks are were its at. Not if your plans for the week don't involve being electrocuted every time you reach for snacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Lyric Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 that's why shapers use rubber gloves!!! dooh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ouroboros Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 What about Guardian ? They used the steel gloves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd Avid Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Originally Posted By: Quis I have to say though, I am finding inventory issues the most irritating aspect of the game. Quis I fully agree. Perhaps there's a way to nudge Jeff into opening up the pack to carry more stuff or allowing more than $30K cash. It would sure eliminate a lot of time used organizing and saving. The PC could just carry all the special stuff and sell all the rest. Anyone know if there's a 'suggestion box' thread that Jeff reads? I checked and couldn't find one based on thread title... Later, Avid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd Avid Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Originally Posted By: Quis Canisters, is there a way I can work out how many I have already consumed and how many is too many? I am thinking I should pass up most canisters unless they are a significant benefit. Quis The thing about the mule was just soooo enchanting! Never checked... was this Q answered sufficiently for you ... the part about how you can find out how many you've consumed? I'm sure there's a way to read the script file that contains the info on how many you've used, but I've no idea which one or how to go about that. Perhaps someone else in the forum knows. As for me, I just keep a tally pad that has the name of the canister and the area it was in. That way I know how many canisters and what stats have been raised by them. I also know if my PC is going to go canister mad or not once I've reached the 'warning' limit mentioned in the Walkthrough. So, as far as the limit goes, check the Walkthrough. It's a good guide for all that... Later, Avid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Drayk Armitage Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Guys... do you have any idea how long it took just to get to the encumbrance system that we have now? In G1-3 (as well as games like A4) your weight allowance was a little higher but ALL items you carried counted towards it. The current system is leaps and bounds more convenient than that one. People made suggestions like yours every time a game came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Go back to Exile 1 and you have almost no inventory slots and those were also used for equipped items. Slarty is right that this is a major upgrade. Jeff does occasionally read game topics, but when it requires changing the computer code, he takes his time on acting on suggestions. The money limit comes from the variable size and in Blades of Exile I was able to go over and get negative money. All we got as a concession over at Basilisks games was that keys would no longer take up inventory slots in Eschalon: Book 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Drayk Armitage Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I'm not sure what I think of the Basilisk people. They were pretty stubborn about insisting that keyboard movement was unnecessary, even though Eschalon was virtually unplayable on a mouseless laptop. On the other hand they seem to have listened to that, and to a number of other suggestions, for the sequel. I guess I'll just have to see how the game turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Originally Posted By: Randomizer The money limit comes from the variable size and in Blades of Exile I was able to go over and get negative money. There's literally no good technical reason not to use a long, though. Is saving two bytes of memory really that important? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Originally Posted By: Randomizer The money limit comes from the variable size and in Blades of Exile I was able to go over and get negative money. Been there. I also got that in the trilogy too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk pitchblack Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Originally Posted By: Thuryl There's literally no good technical reason not to use a long, though. Is saving two bytes of memory really that important? Back in the time of Exile 1, it did make a (very small) difference. I think Jeff isn't changing it because he would have to find all the times the 'money' integer is used and change it to a long. Not fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I'm no programmer, but don't you declare the variable's type once and then call it many times? How often does the call depend on the type explicitly? —Alorael, who suspects that the good reason was elegant programming that turned out to be icky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 You have to declare variables at the beginning and you have to be consistent with their usage in subroutines and functions. Which means that all variables and arrays have to match type and order in the subroutines and their calls since the program sets asides memory allocations for each one based on location and it's possible to confuse a program if you change them. FORTRAN exam questions used to be what value would result from sloppy programing where you mismatch variable type and used certain math formulas that changed the type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Drayk Armitage Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 So shorts and longs aren't interchangable in subroutine and function calls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Nope. Program languages are designed to avoid you having to see the mess at machine level where numbers are stored on a giant memory stack with instructions to push on and pop off (those were the command names) parts of the memory stack to reach the value the program needs at a given time. The difference between long and short values becomes how many memory places on the stack are needed together for an operation. Writing at machine level, the program optimizes the order of storing values to minimize moving numbers back and forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Drayk Armitage Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I think this is what I get for having been trained in Pascal, and then never going on to do much in a "real" programming language. Darn outdated AP exams! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Don't be so hard on yourself, Slarty. In college, I took COBOL and VB6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Originally Posted By: Slarty I think this is what I get for having been trained in Pascal, and then never going on to do much in a "real" programming language. Darn outdated AP exams! I dunno, I think that by now a REAL Programming Language should have a smart enough compiler for automatic conversion between primitive types. But what do I know - I also eat quiche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I started when PASCAL was just coming into style for college programming, so my classes were in FORTRAN. I picked up a bit of assembly language, BASIC, and COBOL on my own. Most people don't need to know what is going on at machine level so they miss out on things like the number of bits per word varies between computers. Also Microsoft makes it possible to write really bad programs that will still run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Drayk Armitage Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dintiradan, that pun was disgusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Originally Posted By: Randomizer I started when PASCAL was just coming into style for college programming, so my classes were in FORTRAN. I picked up a bit of assembly language, BASIC, and COBOL on my own. Out of curiosity, which BASIC was it? There's been quite a few over the years. Quote: Also Microsoft makes it possible to write really bad programs that will still run. Like the defragmenter that comes with Vista. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I used the BASIC interpreter that came with MS-DOS back in the 80s during those pre-Windows days. It was a really bad version, but it was everywhere because it was free and installed on all Windows computers. It might have been better if parts hadn't been written by Bill Gates, yes that Bill Gates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Ah, the 80s, I remember it well... I learned some BASIC back then too, on an Apple ][e. Didn't learn much beyond the basics (no pun intended), though. Originally Posted By: Randomizer It might have been better if parts hadn't been written by Bill Gates, yes that Bill Gates. Which is probably why BASIC stands for Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code. (I can't believe I still remember that acronym!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Drayk Armitage Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I still remember my amazement when I switched from AppleSoft BASIC to QuickBASIC. Being allowed to have variable names longer than two letters long was something I'd never dreamed of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan jlsgaladriel Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I remember the first programming class I took, in high school, in I think '84? The computer took up a whole room in the building, and it wasn't as smart as my old palm pilot. We programmed in line basic. (Gosub 300!) I remember turning in a verb-object sort of game as a project (get sword! go north! kill dragon!) Silly, unsophisticated, and everyone loved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan -=microphage=- Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Originally Posted By: The Mystic a) What Thuryl said about storing items. He got there first. There's an internal counter that keeps track of how many canisters you've used; each canister you use adds one to this total. There's no limit to the number of canisters you can use, but you start noticing dialogue changes at about six canisters. I 'Iffy' found a simple SDF code in GF4 that allowed you to zero out the total count for canister use while keeping all the benefits. Just a few key strokes and no script editing. Iffy's GF4 Canister Cure: open console (shiftD) and type SDF 100 4 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Umm...I've already posted that in other threads, along with the canister codes for G1-G3. Also, you can change how many canisters you've used (the third number) to anything you want, so you can experiment with different dialogue options without having to start a new game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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