The Lurker

Well. Now you really made me want to know more. I'm going to try a GF4 Servile again on Torment. I'll focus heavily on Mental Magic and Spellcraft. We'll see if it's really easier to play that way. The reason why I'm being so skeptical is this : every time I played GF4, Mental Magic didn't really help in Big Boss fights (like Matala, the Old Golem, Scourge Vossizon, the Maddened Trall, and so on). But maybe there are ways to still be strong even if you play a mental-heavy servile. I'll just have to be more careful with how I spend my skill points. Although I seriously doubt the Servile can be better than the Lifecrafter in any way (I never had any major problems while playing as a Lifecrafter, Torment or not), it could be than I underestimated it.

Well, mental magic in GF4 *is* strong... But only if you spend a *lot* of skill points to make it efficient. How do you manage to keep your servile physically strong if you focus on mental magic? Is mental magic less effective on Windows? I tried your crowd control strategy the very first time I played as a Servile, and was forced to change my strategy because I got, like, totally obliterated. That's why I think the Infiltrator is best if you want to use crowd control tactics. A servile has to waste a lot of skill points in mental magic to make it effective, especially on powerful magical creations like Wingbolts and Glaahks. The last few times I played as a servile, I never even bothered with mental magic and did just fine. (Of course, maybe I didn't reload enough times when I tried the mental magic strategy... but I felt it was just too frustrating.)

Still, due to the very nature of the mazes, I think they're just fine. Not having the mazes together would IMHO have reduced the surrealism in the dreams : "you sense the bitter taste of Bloodroot in your mouth/you see blackness/you smell sweat, blood and decay" and so on.

Well, actually, that's exactly my problem with the servile. No real weakness, but no real strength either... Even after getting used to distracting (and later in the game, damaging) my enemies with shaping, learning that Daze becomes useless later in the game, making my Servile physically pretty darn strong, hitting my enemies from afar when necessary... ...I came to the conclusion that I've seen more powerful classes. I mean, I did just fine with most dungeons, but it literally took me forever to understand how to make a Servile that could handle many Wingbolts at once, Matala, the Turabi Gate, the Western Morass... you get the idea. Sometimes there's just nothing that can beat the good ol' "make many powerful creations and reduce everything to paste" shaper tactics.

Thanks for the info, Randomizer. And to think I wasn't being serious when I mentioned the Tasty Vlish. Now I really can't wait for the Windows version.

Well, either you know something that I don't (which would greatly surprise me considering how many hours I spent testing GF4's classes), or there's a misunderstanding. Is the servile fun to play? I do think so. Can it be a good character? Definetely, if you give it the right items and spend your skill points carefully. Is this class hard to master? Yes. Understanding how to play as a Servile is very difficult (partially due to the nerf Mental Magic was given - many players will take a while to accept this). Lifecrafter/Shapers, due to the way the GF engine works, have access to "ultimate" tactics that simply don't work as well with other classes. Like, say, being able to rush enemies with creations, run away, restore your essence, make some more creations, and so on until there's nothing left. Serviles can be very good, but in the first four GF games, the Shaper/lifecrafter is the absolute most powerful class, IMO. But I will listen to anything you may have to say, and if necessary, admit that I'm wrong. I just think the chances of me being wrong in this one case are pretty slim. ^^

To be fair, it's not necessarily true that a well-designed dungeon should have no mazes. See Roots and Nethergate, for example. I personally think a maze now and then doesn't hurt (although I would never see it as a requirement to have a good scenario).

Fantastic work as usual, Randomizer. The fact that there's only one Ornk canister forever shatters my dream to make Oozing Beasts or Ornk Lords.

Whoa. I'll have to try that. So, Thuryl, will we get to see the chronicles of Onan the Barbarian or something similar this time?

"More than ever"? The servile sucked in GF4. Heck, anything that isn't a Shaper or Lifecrafter tends to be weak, with the possible exception of the Guardian in GF2. Jeff has never once managed to make the Geneforge classes balanced, IMO. It's probably no different in GF5. EDIT : So, is there finally a Tasty Vlish in GF5 or not? EDIT 2 : And mind you, I don't *mind* unbalanced classes - I'm merely stating what's probably a fact. In fact, I think picking a singleton-type character provides a much harder challenge than setting the difficulty to Torment.

...Which is why I tend to kill this vampire before it can do anything bad. It isn't nearly as simple against Zorvas - chances are he'll manage to cast Arcane Summon at least once during the battle. Good thing the centaurs can be charmed with the vahnatai's Capture Mind spell.

You do mean the undead cult near the Major Waste Repository, right? I'll check, but I've never seen more than one vampire there. On the other hand, the battle against Fynder in DWTD has a lot more than one vampire.

Thanks, Thuryl. I was hoping you'd be the one to reply, you're a true encyclopedia . There's only one vampire in the underground section, and I found it to be much, much easier than the Spirit of the Sick (I was indeed near the end of the scenario when I fought the spirit and Zorvas). If the vampire and the spirit are supposed to be the hardest fights, then... Was Zorvas intentionally made beatable? Or did Jeff just put the death message for cheaters, like Pythras? As for Pythras, hmm, yeah. She can't cast spells, but she's insanely powerful in melee and her abilities are very annoying.

Okay, so I entered Valley of Dying Things with a Level 1 party and beat both the Spirit of the Sick and Zorvas, on both Normal and Torment. It was very satisfying. So, just wondering, were they even meant to be beatable without cheating? You get no reward for beating Zorvas and the reward for beating the Spirit is kinda pointless, since you can get the same reward by helping it rather than attacking it. Also, has anyone ever managed to beat Pythras with a Level 1 party? So far she's been thoroughly wiping the floor with me. I think I'll try one more time with the meatshield strategy I used to beat Revenge with a Level 1 party, and if that fails, well, I think I'll just give up.

Ah, thanks Thuryl. I suspected as much. It sounds like he'd have been better off just removing the last potion slot. So, will your next scenario be out before Pygmalion is released?

Dintiradan - I screwed up. Strong Back merely substracts 2 from your encumbrance, rather than halving it. Nikki - Yeah, few BoA scenarios focus on Alchemy... There's Frostbite, but it doesn't use "regular" alchemy. Speaking of alchemy, it appears than whenever you make a potion, you get a small chance of making an "extra dose". Hmm. Also, it appears that the invulnerability given by Protection Brews is much stronger than the one given by Invulnerability Potions. Which means that making Invulnerability Potions is a total waste of herbs.

Strong Back is indeed surprisingly good - halves encumbrance, and allows you to carry more weight, all for a mere 10% XP penalty. Not bad. Anyway, I always give my spellcasters quite a bit of strength - that makes looting dungeons so much faster. I always end up having around 30000 gold and every level of every spell after beating DWTD.

Thanks everyone! Two things I forgot to say about my slith : he also focuses on assassination, and stops training in defense after he has around 8 points (the dodging bonus is minimal - I personally mostly use defense to reduce encumbrance). I find it surprising that there are still people who use Elite Warrior - its (insignificant) bonuses stop after a few levels, but the XP penalty stays, making it one of the worst traits ever. Divinely Touched, on the other hand, gives you bonuses to Strength, Dexterity, and Intelligence as you gain levels, and Divine Aid is just wow. Call Spirit can be somewhat useful at higher levels (Fierce Shades and Divine Shades are nice). Regenerate sucks, but hey, you can't have everything, I guess. Nioca - ah, so you picked negative traits for your spellcasters. Clever. Sickness Prone is IMHO the second-best negative trait (the first being, by far, Completely Inept). Brittle Bones isn't too bad for spellcasters... But I personally avoid it, since I heard it increases unblockable damage - I'm going to have to test this a bit more thoroughly. Cursed at Birth isn't bad for spellcasters, but warriors should avoid it. Sluggish is IMHO the absolute worst trait.

(Yes, this has been done before, but it's been a while.) My current party (which is doing well, I think I'll use it in most scenarios) : Ssschah : Slithzerikai Blademaster/Main Tank. Focuses on both Melee Weapons and Pole Weapons, as well as warrior-type skills like Blademaster and Defense. Has Divinely Touched and Completely Inept. Mmrrr : Nephil Archer/Thief/Secondary Tank. Has no melee skills whatsoever (well, I might consider giving him some melee skills at very high levels, but there aren't enough very high level scenarios out there). Focuses on Bows, Thrown Missiles, Sharpshooter, and Tool Use. Has Divinely Touched and Completely Inept. Cordelia : Priest/Lore expert. Focuses on Priest Spells (and Mage Spells at high levels, since Intelligence becomes useless after a while), as well as Nature Lore, Magery, Arcane Lore, and Pathfinder. Has Natural Mage and Completely Inept. Mycroft : Mage/Alchemist. Focuses on Mage Spells (and Priest Spells at high levels), as well as Potion Making and Magery. Has Natural Mage and Completely Inept. So, why Divinely Touched? Because Divine Aid is ridiculously powerful at high levels, especially on warriors. Why Natural Mage? It really isn't that good a trait, but I'm too fond of the Restore Spell Energy ability to let it go. If a designer ever decides to remove my equipment in a big dungeon with no potions in sight, I'll still have infinite energy (the day counter does work in towns, it's just that time passes verrry slowwwly.) And why Completely Inept? Because it just might be the best trait in the game. The XP bonus is great, and the penalties are insignificant (assuming they exist at all).

It's potentially the most powerful bow in the game... Basically, your stats will increase its damage value more than with a seemingly more powerful weapon (like Eliavri's Bow). Unlike Avernum 4, however, it's not actually the most powerful weapon in the game - that would be the Slith Bloodspear.

That's how I did it too. I used Adrenaline Rush to run into the house and close the door. Anyway, yes, the game is supposed to tell you that the sentinels stop attacking. So it's a bug.

Quote: Originally written by Randomizer: Vahnatai East Gate guards that won't talk to me... Ah, Vatikus-Te. He (she?) and his (her?) guards are so resistant to damage that I was almost expecting to get a very powerful item after defeating them... But I guess a Knowledge Elixir isn't bad.

I tend to do it that way too. My last playthrough was pretty hackfestish - I ended up killing Melanchion, Solberg, the Cheeseballs, the Anama, and possibly Mayor Kilgore as well.

You still need to make sure the possessed character is at least slightly hurt, though, or the Soultaker won't be damaged.