Zeviz

Word order in Russian isn't as fixed as in English, so either is fine. Although oba dikije, does sound better than dikije oba. Which word goes first determines emphasis: "Oba vi dikije" emphasizes "both", while "Dikije vi oba" emphasizes "wild". And to try to get this discussion back towards the topic of Avernum, how did people come up with Vahnatai language? It seems to appear in only a few places in the game, but Drakey has a whole dictionary.

Quote: Originally written by Ur-Noob: You may need to buy Jeff a PC as well. Are you saying he makes Windows versions of his games on a Mac and releases them without testing?

I found Avernum 2 when I stambled across www.spidweb.com in summer of 2001. As for Spidweb games in general, I first found Exile II when looking online for sharewere in whatever year it came out. I think it might have been on AOL games. I played it because I like RPGs and because I wasn't allowed to buy computer games at the time. When I found A2, I've registered that, and a couple of later Spidweb games as well. My favorite computer game is Civilization 4, but if you are talking about Avernum games, it's A2. Quote: Originally written by Dikiyoba: Originally by Meeshka: Quote: BTW in my lang "Dikiyoba" should be translated (homophonically) as "both are wild". A coincidence? What is the name of your language? I'll make note of it on my list of names. Dikiyoba's name can be transformed in many ways. Now it can be translated in many ways as well. (Human) nature abhors a vacuum and attaches meaning to the meaningless. I think his language is Russian. I'd translate it from Russian as "wild Oba". "Dikiy" is male form of adjective "wild" and "oba" means "both", but to make it gramatically correct it would be "Dikiyeoba" (using plural form of "wild"). I guess Dikiyeoba could go on your list as "botharewild".

It seems that your extensive experience with other games is hurting, rather than helping you. If you like to play a singleton magic user, you should be playing an agent, instead of a shaper. The intended way to play a shaper is to create several creatures and NPCs that you keep alive long enough to get them to a high level of experience. Shaper is a general, not a battle mage. And as any general, he needs to be surrounded by troops whom he cares about. (If you don't let your creations die, they'll become very strong.) As for NPCs stealing your experience, that's not how the game works. Your creatures and NPCs get a lot of experience, while you loose a little. So a Shaper with half a dozen followers gets experience only 50% slower than a lone agent. Another factor is that experience you gain from same enemies/quests decreases as your level increases. So the penalty for having an army of NPCs/creations is even smaller. I'd recommend restarting the game and playing either as an agent (if you want to play the same way you've played other RPGs), or as a shaper who makes a lot of creations (and picks up the NPCs) and keeps them alive. (A sufficiently high-level Fyora can take on a Dryak, while still costing you only 15 essence.) PS Another advantage of NPCs is that they never die. When they get down to 0 health, they return to the place where you picked them up. EDIT: As for Creator-fighting tips, if you can't see the worm-generating platforms, no worms will appear there. Use this to your advantage. (Have your ranged attackers hit Creator from edge of the room, while your mellee fighters deal with worms appearing on the two nearby platforms.)

I meant that you shouldn't try to write a game like this if you don't even know which language to use. If you are just wondering what Jeff used to make Exile games, it's either C or C++.

If you have to ask, the answer is no. Look around www.spidweb.com and you'll find a lot of writings by Jeff, which include this information, among other things. I don't remember if he used C or C++ for Exile. My guess would be C for Exile and C++ for Avernum. EDIT: You might find this section of Jeff's website interesting: Resources for Sharaware Developers

Quote: Originally written by Nick Ringer: I couldn't possibly have thought of everything ... although I expected complaint/ridicule based on the "I do not want to be able to Shape" it was my subtle way of reminding voters that Jeff had specifically announced (Zeviz!) the fact that the PC would not be a Shaper. Also I was going for completeness. No, I did not actually expect anyone to select it. ... I guess I wasn't very clear in my post. The main idea is that I want a character that knows as much as I do about the world of Geneforge. Some people talked about playing as Shloai, but that has a potential to be as bad as playing a Shaper apprentice: My Character: I wonder what that glowing thing is. Me: It's a skill canister, idiot. * My Character touches the canister. * My Character: Wow, I wonder where that power came from. Me: Genetic engineering. My Character: Wow, these serviles are unusually intelligent. Me: Yes, they are called Taker, they originated in Kazg on Sulica island, etc, etc. My character: I wonder who is behind these monster plagues. Me: Rentar-Ihrno. Sorry, wrong game. I meant to say "a bunch of power-hungry Drakons and/or canister-crazed Shapers". Conversations like the ones above tend to ruin the immersion, which had usually been one of the best atributes of Spidweb games. I wouldn't have a problem playing a high-ranking Shaper (in fact, a top agent, who is beginning to question his missions would be quite fun), as long as that Shaper knows as much as I do about the Geneforge world.

The poll is missing the main complaint about the Geneforge series so far: I don't want to play yet another shaper apprentice, who has to deal with the changing world around him. There are many other options: - a high ranking Shaper or Rebel agent, who is having doubts about his missions - a human warrior/mage who lives in a town that ends up on a front line - a member of the Awakened, ready to come out of their hiding place Playing Shloai might pose the same problem as playing yet another Shaper apprentice: the loss of immersion due to disconnect between IC and OOC knowledge. The player already knows all about canisters, servile factions, etc. So when the character is surprized by these things it breaks the connection between player and character. As for the technical aspects of the game listed in your poll, I think the game is good enough already. Sure, more spells, more creations, more technical toys like day/night cycle, etc. are always good, but they are not going to have much impact on my decision whether to buy Geneforge 4.

Quote: Originally written by Nick Ringer: Theft, MagmaDragoon, is possible in real life. The fact that your party members can take stuff without being noticed is either a) an inherent sleight of hand possessed by creations, Alwan, and Greta, or cheating. Since we can't Shape, Jeff gets to make up rules for it. So, as The Lurker articulates: ... Then why is it that Alwan's "slight of hand" doesn't work whenever you are nearby? And how can your fyora who can't carry a single item steal a whole shop full of weapons without the merchant notincing? And why can it do this only when your character isn't around. Some game mechanics quirks can be reasonably explained away. Some are obvious bugs. The one with stealing by creatures falls into second category.

Watchhill is a pretty tough area for a new player. Later Geneforge games had a more gentle introduction. For a shaper, my favorite strategy is a "deadweight shaper": invest all skill points into intelligence, make as many creatures as you can, and let them do all the work. You shaper doesn't need much Endurance, because he should never get hit. Other than that, the only advice I can give you is to move carefully, engaging 1 enemy at a time and not approaching the spawner until you are ready for it. Also, keep a couple of backup saves, because if you accidentally wake up the spawner when you aren't ready (you'll see notes about spawner actions), you'll have to reload an earlier save.

Somebody (Drakey?) had beaten E3 with a no-magic singleton, so you don't really need all 4 characters. As for specifics, when you visit the Anama, you'll see that Jeff intended the game to be winnable with no mages in your party. Removing priests as well would make things harder, but still doable if you rely on a lot of potions and scrolls. Most typical singleton is a fighter/magic user combo. Since I haven't done any of these crazy variants myself, that's about as much detail as I can give you. EDIT: Since most magic effects can be obtained from scrolls and potions and since blessed and hasted warrior is one of the most efficient ways to kill anything, a no-magic party isn't as impossible as it sounds.

Quote: Originally written by Philthy: Well, I suppose I am mostly referring to the storyline and plot of the first three. Will things like these be given away as I progress through 4? I already know in A4 that there used to be a dragon that was killed. Say, if he happens to exist in A3, and somehow the final encounter is you vs the army trying to kill him - I already know what happens. If you get at what i'm trying to say. If you have any intention of playing A3, stop reading these boards NOW. I am quite serious about this, because it's impossible to avoid finding out the main villain of A3/E3 if you read enough threads here. (Including General and BoE subforums.) A4 will completely spoil A3's ending too. Since A3's plot depends so strongly on mystery, the game loses a lot once you know who the bad guy is. This isn't the case with the other two Avernums, because it quickly becomes clear what your goals are and the following games simply assume that you've accomplished your goals. So the main argument against playing them out of order is that Jeff improved the engine with each game, so going back to A1 after A3 might be a bit painful.

If you are trying to get into restricted part of the camp without angering the rebels, the only way to do it is to sneak in. Save often into different save slots and rush from building to building, leaving your pets in an allowed area and making sure the guards don't see you. The guards move along sertain paths, so if they catch you, just reload and wait for them to go by, hiding inside or behind a building. That area took a lot of reloading for me.

If that's the cave I am thinking of, you have to go all the way through from stairs in bottom left of the map to stairs in the top right of the map. After going up those stairs, you'll find yourself in the opposide corner of the top map. The entrance to rebel camp is the north exit of the top map. Or you could avoid worrying about the cave system and just fight your way through the top map if you are strong enough.

I assumed decorative items would be the first to disappear. I can double-check that save game this evening, if I still have it. It might even be that I really had 200 items stored there. (Although I don't think it could be that many.) The main point of my post was to warn that if you aren't careful, items might start disappearning before you realize that you've dropped too many.

A warning about the item limit: once you hit it, your items will start disappearing. And I am pretty sure the limit is less than 200. In Gf3, I had a storage yard near Dhonal Keep and once I started making a third pile of items, I noticed that some things I've dropped in the first pile were gone. (By "pile" I mean standing at 1 place and dropping items until there is no more room.) Maybe it was fourth, rather than 3rd pile. However, it was definitely less than 200 items, because I also had large storage piles in several other areas and I doubt I've accumulated that much loot during the course of half a game.

Quote: Originally written by Lenar Labs: For those who care: I posted the next section. Perhaps it will ease your concerns. Perhaps it will heighten them. ... Very nice. I always wondered what it felt like for commanders of those fortresses my adventurers bravely stormed. And it's also good to see personalities of various officials who will be "bosses" in A2.

Quote: Originally written by Whan Aprill with his shoures sote: Haven't read the story yet, but I would like to add that combat is a very poor substitute for a real story. The less you use of it, the better. Of course, philosophical musings are not much better. Scenic description ranks a bit higher, and dialogue is probably the most important of them all. You are right that action scenes can't substitute for a real story either. I guess I was seeing this as a BoE scenario script, rather than a novel. However, I disagree that the less action the better. Most "classic" novels from War and Peace to LotR to Odysseus have plenty of action scenes. (Although I agree that they tend to open with dialogue, rather than action.)

The [first page of] your story is well-written, although a bit more action and a bit less philosophy would be much better for capturing reader's attention. Even Tolstoy starts War and Peace with a conversation at a social gathering and saves his pages of philosophical musings for middle of the book, when readers are sufficiently hooked not to mind it too much. If you replaced half of Erika's musings with interspersed scenes of adventurers fighting Emperor's guards, you'd catch attention of a lot more readers. Especially if you start with action, cut to Erika's tower, back to action, back to tower, etc.

Quote: Originally written by rantalot: speaking of purchasing BoE is it still 30$? I remember the demo was one of the first games i played when i came 2 US along with duke nuke em 3D....man that was one hell of a start BoE price was recently decreased to 15$ (at least according to online Order Form). Considering the number and quality of scenarios available, that's a very good price. Talking about price cuts, Exile Trilogy CD was finally reduced to 25$. Not sure if anybody is still buying Exiles, but at least they are now much cheaper than Avernums.

Quote: Originally written by Drakey: Hm, odd they never made a sequel. Perhaps because it would destroy the significance of it. I hope they don't remake Exile graphics, that's the best of all Spiderweb's games in my opinion. Considering that the whole point of Avernum was remaking of Exile with better graphics, I doubt Jeff will remake Exile again. Is anybody looking forward to Aabanum? (Since Avernum's name was likely selected to appear early in alpahabetical list of games, next logical step is Aabanum.) PS Why does Shaper Lord's PDN appear as "Drakey" when quoted?

Some scenarios (if I remember correctly, Apology is one of them) give you no traditional "reward" even if they have a lot of combat, because the party comes out of them too imbalanced. So you shouldn't feel bad about having a good story and fun gameplay be their own reward. That said, gameplay is more fun if characters get a stat boost, some custom spells, or other such things occasionally, especially if these things turn out to be useful afterwards. (Sure, a door might require 0 Tool Use to open, but that doesn't matter as long as the player thinks they were just able to pick the lock due to a technique their character learned earlier.)

Quote: Originally written by Desert Pl@h: And other people prefer to keep resurrection limited to Exile games, rather than the forums. However, most people prefer to let moderators do their job without interference. Especially when somebody who has recently returned to the forums after long absence is adding relevant information to a thread which is still on page 1. EDIT: It is particularly ironic to see this form of back-seat moderating on a topic complaining about low forum activity.

Quote: Originally written by Dintiradan: By Zeviz: Quote: Have you read Evil Masterminding for Idiots? This has an uncanny resemblance to the EVIL OVERLORD LIST . Now, once I run out of the 300-odd rules for Evil Overlords to quote, I can use this new list. Thanks! ... A story in the signature might be a bit hard to read. What about some advice for your Henchmen , or even being a good sport and giving advice to the other characters ? Sorry about off-topicness. I'll stop now.

Quote: Originally written by Spidweb: The way I currently picture Avernum 5 is: i. In a whole new area of the underworld. ii. On a much smaller scale, plot-wise. You have a major mission, but no monolithic power trying to blow up the world. iii. More like Avernum 2 in details of storyline. ... v. More talk and diplomacy. ... - Jeff Vogel I am looking forward to A5 already. A2 was my favorite game in the series. Quote: Originally written by Alorael: ... As a band of young Unspecified Servicers yourselves, it has fallen to you to right the wrongs and restore the peace. Find new goblin tribes to move into the caves so other young adventurers can gain necessary experience! Find and the heirlooms that are unfortunately far from priceless, buy them back from the merchants who have them now, and return them! Set trap, lock doors, and raise magic barriers to prevent it all from happening again until another band of adventurers has 15 Tool Use and Dispel Barrier!... Have you read Evil Masterminding for Idiots ?