Hyperion703

@Magenta I could have written this post myself- I'm dealing with the exact same issue. My first run, and probably my favorite so far, was a solo agent. It's hard to understate the fun of not having to micromanage a bunch of creatures. Solo agent was quick, simple, just take care of myself.

And yes, ES was the single most important spell for my agent. It allowed me to wear relatively flimsy (but bonus-laden) robes without being too vulnerable. In fact, many of my high-level battles involved recasting ES once each turn and using AS or EP to strike back. Few enemies hit hard enough to break through my 350+ ES.

Watch out for stun! That's the only thing that can really bring an ES agent down, as you cannot re-up on your ES each turn.

I played a Barzite Shaper next. Super powerful but kinda boring with lots of micromanagement.

Now I'm playing a guardian. Only about nine levels in. He specializes in magic creations. Right now he's getting his ass kicked hard. The positioning needed to make melee work can be challenging. And I'm struggling with making my essence last. It's cool to value items I've always passed up. But there is even more micromanaging than even shapers imo. I'm finding it tedious.

I might just walk away from this playthrough and do another solo agent.

59 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

Regenerate (Fixed Your Thought)

Or Regen, depending on your chosen career choice. The homicidal nonaligned Agent in me swears by her e-Shield, while my damn megalomaniacal Barzite Shaper rocks the Regen. Not sure what my surprisingly death-prone Awakened Guardian would do. Probably just die. From something stupid like roamers or something. Not jiving with that dude...

Edit: Dammit I posted to the wrong thread. I gotta get some sleep...

2 hours ago, Lorn said:

Great - another question. I sabotaged

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the radiant college with the acid stuff. I noticed though that I would take a constant acid damage for 6 turns no matter where I went. I think the acid damage is too steep. It should start with little, and improve the more you stay in the place

 

If it's the area I'm thinking, it's magical radiation or something like it. Supercharged particles make ya hop and skip. A similar area in the Complex Core with Tuldaric does the same thing. And some places you prolly haven't been yet. Yeah, it's a thing.

You need to get yourself a solid Essence Shield. Then you'll be able to withstand anything. 

1 hour ago, Lorn said:

In my playthrough, Isserm (the drakon in the taker icelands) dropped nothing. Intended?

If you mean Issera, then you do not take away anything of value. I'd say you "took away her life," except that had no value either. Oh well.

I'm proud of you, Randomizer. This is a big first step. 

Remember, the real reward is the satisfaction of a job well done. And the 'Aii' and 'Ohh' as they disintegrate from your Essence Purge. 

May all your disintegrations be mirthful and gratifying. 

9 hours ago, Mechalibur said:

It was also probably never caught because the game doesn't really ever give you a reason to attack the Sholai in Shandoka.

But, they have health points. And they drop cool gear, coins, and experience when they die. And they yell 'Aii' and 'Ohh' when their broken mortal bodies drop to the ground. Doesn't that make you happy? Why would you forgo that enjoyment and let them live??

@Aoslare A decade or more. Clearly you're in the camp of 'more.' And that's fine; I accounted for both. I stand by my statement.

Nice tips/review, Lorn. 

I agree with all your "good" points. There have been many attempts at combining fantasy with sci fi. But I believe few, if any, have done a better, more convincing job than the Geneforge setting. The two genres are so entwined here that sometimes it's difficult to figure where one ends and the other begins. It's a truly great mash up.

20 hours ago, Lorn said:

- The fact that I have to read a guide that tells me that I should pump up only one shaping to have decent creations is another bad lack of information.

I see what you mean, but this is just gaming/RPGing 101. Specialize, always specialize. Most games, digital or tabletop, aren't going to explicitly state that if you specialize you will reap greater rewards (in terms of power) than if you were a Jack of all Trades. But, it remains true nonetheless. Always specialize.

20 hours ago, Lorn said:

> If you do not have 14 mechanic, by trying to disable you simply die. Game should probably tell you that you do not have the skill to try, then allow you to do so anyway.

The way the game has it seems more true-to-life. For example, although my automobile driving skill proficiency is relatively high IRL, I wouldn't know that I could/could not maintain control of any particular motor vehicle unless I got behind the wheel and tried driving it. I mean, odds are very good for regular automobiles (otherwise test driving new cars wouldn't be a thing). But a school bus? Maybe. An 18-wheeler? Not likely. In fact, I believe these games are exceedingly generous in that you essentially 'roll' a 100% if you have a high enough proficiency. There isn't a margin of error regardless of level of ability like IRL (at least, not in mechanics checks). I think, by having it the way it is currently, it kind of mimicks that skills check/failure.

20 hours ago, Lorn said:

- There was no “wooo” item for me inside the game.

This I completely agree with. It holds true for GF2-I as well. Even the top-tier endgame equips and weapons (especially) were just okay at best. IIrc, this wasn't the case in other SW franchises. Maybe the dev wanted to highlight the spells/canisters and creations more with GF games. Because the items ain't it.

Edit: Now that I'm thinking about it, it would be thematically perfect for there to be "living weapons" in the GF setting. Symbiotic organisms "grown" like Living Tools to fuse or wrap around it's user. And further adding to the fantasy/sci fi fusion.

20 hours ago, Lorn said:

- I regret the lack of option sometimes.

Give it time. Once advanced AI gets into RPGs, it will produce dynamic, lifelike NPCs you'll be able to talk to like we're talking now. They will so closely resemble real people making real decisions that your actions towards them and their responses in kind will be almost infinitely diverse. It will likely be a decade or more for that level of AI integration into games, but it's coming. 

9 minutes ago, alhoon said:

You do not get three actions.

You do. But only really, really rarely with a certain stylish hand apparel. I just want Haste and Quick Action to be friends and work together to achieve a common goal: More actions per turn for me. Three or more. I need to get more action.

Good luck with your coin problem.

2 minutes ago, alhoon said:

Your character is not an item crafter. You cannot turn iron bars to swords or armor.

Yes, I am aware of this. It would still be nice to turn these junk crystals and a blade over to someone... say, Ellisia... along with some coinage to put some rocket in the sockets. 'Know what I mean? It works for certain rings and slap gloves. Would it be a stretch to assume they could do the same for my stabby sword of death incarnate?

9 minutes ago, alhoon said:

Are you sure?

Nope. Not even a little bit. I'm... kinda sorta maybe certain to a degree. Which is to say, not certain at all. It has just never happened to my knowledge in one of my huge quantities of 1.5 games. If it is possible, maybe just increase the likelihood? Maybe not require an act of god to achieve a three or four-action turn? I'm not talking about consistency here. Just once in a blue moon. A reasonable ask.

Also, I'll check the clawbugs out. The pyroroamers scare me. Not gonna tempt fate with that one.

Thanks for the reply.

EDIT: I almost forgot... MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD. Read only if you like being repeatedly and unapologetically spoiled.

Yep, another one of those posts. Critical. Subjective. Anecdotal. Unsurprisingly abundant following every major release. Thanks for clicking on it anyway. 

So, I’ll just jump right into it with the ‘glows.’ Here is what I am enjoying so far about GF2-I after 1.5 playthroughs. For context, the first was an unaligned solo agent; currently as a fire-focused factionally-fluctuating shaper (rolled high on my alliteration check). Both on normal. My observations below might heavily reflect those aspects of the game.

Glows:

• Overall, it seems like class power balance is good. Each class has gear which is clearly meant for them, though not exclusively. It seems like my current shaper got through parts easier than my solo agent. However, the opposite is equally true. I imagine it’s likely also true for guardians. This adds to the replayability; it’s like having three games in one, and even more with my next point...
• Related to the last item, I love the viable option to play as a ‘pacifist’ infiltrator/convincing smooth talker. The hint book (which I recommend) covers both play styles equally, so its inclusion was not an afterthought. I know this is an option in most (all?) SW games. But it is so cool and unique that it is worth restating.
• The plot is intriguing, mysterious, and often unpredictable. Political tension abounds. I know this is a given for SW games, but noteworthy nonetheless. In other text-heavy games, I find myself skipping the text to get to the action. Here, I enjoyed taking the time to read each line and then imagining it playing out, a nod to the storyline depth and writing of these games.
• Compared to many other titles (SW and otherwise), there seems to be more faction-specific side quests available. Again, these increase replayability because, depending on a player’s choices, they won’t get the option to do some of them. They will want to come back repeatedly to explore those options not available in prior playthroughs. Honestly, I’d like to see more of these (or even the inclusion of class-specific quests), but I understand they might not be the best bang-for-buck in regards to time spent developing a game.
• I love that we can change the names of our creations. Currently, I have four drakons named “Dorothy,” “Blanche,” “Rose,” and “Sophia.” Thank you for being a friend...

That said, there are some things I would do differently. I’m solely a player (and a fairly casual one at that), so I fully admit that some of these ideas might be unrealistic or too resource-intensive for a small indie dev team to include. Still, others might be doable in future updates or mods.

Grows:

• Sometime during my agent playthrough, I began feeling that the Mental Magic curses were fairly underwhelming. As Blessing Magic’s dark counterpart, Mental Magic can be viewed primarily as debuffs. Dominate was situational - It won some fights on its own but it was useless against much of the endgame monsters and bosses. Daze had some usefulness in the Drypeaks area. Otherwise, I found little use in MM. Both Daze and Wrack lasted one or two turns before it wore off regardless of my MM skill level. And Madness was acquired too close to endgame to really be pivotal. It felt unnecessary; spending one turn’s actions so I could roll the debuff dice each turn did not seem particularly worthwhile if the fight only lasted a couple turns. And is there really a need for Delirium? Does it do something I don’t know about? Or is it just another Daze that connects more? Seems redundant. Maybe a spell that applies Lifesteal or Shock might be better in that spot.
• Many of my agent’s most sensitive areas were often enflamed, and she could never find a suitable treatment. No, no, get your head out of the gutter... I mean she kept getting burned up by the DoT status after some inconsiderate drakon connected a Purge. No cure for burning love? Really? Essence Shield was crucial here, as I never found another way to avoid the life loss. Maybe the Healing skills suite could include a solution when someone tries to turn you into a walking campfire.
• The missed opportunity to include a robust system for item crafting is truly perplexing. All these unusable Fine Mined Crystals and gemstones. All these unused Enchanted Anvils. It’s so clear and obvious that I’m half wondering if this element of the game was originally intended, but left out for time or budgetary reasons. I know the anvils have some (limited) use in the handful of artifacts and the ultra-rare exclusive ingredients they require. But it could be so much more. How cool would it be to improve weapons and gear, maybe in tiers, to get even more epic badassery? This would add a ton to customization and replayability, too.
• Haste does not stack with Quick Action. Sadness. Even though some enemies get three actions per turn, your flexes will rarely be as hard. I *think* I recall haste stacking with Spell Mastery, like once or twice. Not sure. For the essence cost, Quicklash should stack with either or both of them, though I don’t think that’s the case currently. Otherwise, Quicklash is six essence worth of pointless if you have high enough Haste or QA. I’m sure this can be explained. Anyone?
• The upgraded versions of most (all?) creations just aren’t worth the essence cost. This is already explored thoroughly here, so I won’t delve into that.
• Lastly, it’s kind of rough that there are so many duplicated “unique” magic items. It’s always a bummer to go through hell (sometimes literally), straight up rock a bunch of grimy fools, and claw your mangled ass to a treasure chest... only to open it and find the same loot you already have. The min/maxer in me says “boo!”, while the completionist in me says “yay!” At least I’ll be able to get all the stuff if there are multiple ways to get them.

Edit: I read somewhere that someone suggested weather events for this game. Pretty rad idea if you ask me. I'd take that one step further and say having weather events and day/night cycles would be the raddest. Some NPCs or areas only open during day, night, or during certain weather events. This would likely require a full overhaul of the entire game, so probably not something to hope for this game. Maybe future remake sequels?

That was long. If you’re still reading, props to you. Feel free to agree, disagree, ignore completely, whatever. If enough players agree with something that should (and can) be changed, I’ll email the dude and tell you what he says.

On 4/25/2024 at 8:50 AM, Snallac said:

one new element that really bothers me and doesn't seem to mesh with the worldbuilding of the games is the introduction of wandering Shapers... who are not on assignment and are evidently left to find something to do on their own.

 

This seems to me to directly clash with the strong and consistent characterization of the Shapers being heavily focused on control.

The phenomenon of wandering shapers can seem odd, as many foreign cultural norms can be perceived by us. I see it this way:

An institution (in this case, the Shaper Council) has a strict systematic method for in-group membership. Formal acceptance happens while children are young, generally elementary ages. Apprenticeship occurs during mid-late teenage years. 

Following apprenticeship, there exists a formal period whereby the Shaper Council effectively ousts the fledgling shaper into the world to prove their loyalty and test their fortitude. Oddly enough, I liken it to the Amish cultural tradition of Rumspringa, whereby a young Amish individual is cast out of the community to live amongst the "English" (mainstream American society) for a period of time, returning to their people only if they are not seduced by the vulgar conveniences of a sinful society. It's like that, but with a somewhat corporatist twist, as the goal of the abandonment is for the young shaper to settle roots and become independently powerful enough to be recognized by the Shaper Council for formal (and permanent, I assume) acceptance into their ranks. Many wandering shapers are never acknowledged and/or admitted by the Council despite a lifetime of attempts. 

The benefits of this are twofold: For one, it breeds innovation. When social cells are left to develop individually instead of collectively, they are much more unique and inventive. The Council can capitalize on constant, fresh innovation through widespread competition as a result. Second, it saves the Council a ton of resources. Remember, these freelance shapers are on their own. They pay for their own lodgings, buy/grow their own food, are responsible for the day-to-day obligations of their lives. The Council essentially says to bugger off until you become noteworthy enough for us to notice you. Working under official, higher-ranking shapers can be one way to accomplish this, but far from the only way. Once a shaper has something of value to contribute, they are admitted into the ruling class and only then will the Council spend precious resources maintaining them. But they have to make it worthwhile. 

Anyway, that's my take. Admittedly, I have not played the original five (it's five, right?) games, so I may be missing something. It seems like a sound enough theory otherwise. Hope I provided some insight or at least food for thought.

See, everyone? This is why you need to kill everyone after the deal is done. The benefits of going nuclear just keep adding up...

Btw, you still get the "killed Sholai" ending if you hung out with the Sholai, traded with them, took them for all they were worth, helped that one lady at that one place do that one thing, and sold out your own Council by being a Sholai bootlicker... then promptly turned around and massacred everyone in both camps. No mention of helping the Sholai. ProTip.

I'm unsure if my addition to this conversation is still relevant some months later. But, here it is regardless...

I understand how the OP feels. Initially, I thought it felt a little... kiddie. Like a bowling lane with bumpers up. I can't tell you why I felt that way. It was just a pervasive feeing in the background. A handful of times I thought it (QW1) might be the first SW game I put down.

But I stuck with it. And I'm glad I did. 

The QW series ended up possibly being my favorite SW series to date. That's a tall order; these games blow big budget games like Diablo out of the water. Why? Because it's actual roleplaying. Most games hyped as "RPGs" these days are just hack-and-slash dungeon crawlers. You never really feel like your decisions matter or change anything. It's just "get quest, go kill, loot stuff, get quest reward." Everyone did the same stuff, had the same dialogues, never made a single real decision that mattered. Everyone's experiences were the same. Not so with SW games...

I bring this up because it's the same argument one can make about the QW games because, among SW franchises, there exists tiers where some do "roleplaying" better than others. 

Queen's Wish is at the top of that list. A-tier RPGing. Because the game records multiple "reputations" in the background based on your dialogue choices, you literally have to pick a path based on what your character has been consistently expressing and stick with it. There's really no "best" path, either. Each path you choose has merits as well as pitfalls. I'll end my game with a character who had very different experiences as your character, and they have different equips and spells to prove it. "Whoa, where'd you get that shield?" I remember a friend saying as we compared QW endgame notes. Those conversations aren't happening with what passes for "RPGs" available today. That's what QW has in spades and that's why I love it.

But you gotta stick with it over that initial distaste.

@BenS I was referring to the Spectral Cleaver. I never used it to attack. It just hung in it's scabbard so I could soak up those magic bonuses. It's good. But I was hoping for more by endgame.

@Randomizer Tek's Spectral Dagger is nice, too. But I finished the game with a Melee Weapon score of 3, and those were from the Phariton cannister you mentioned + a certain charm. I guess I could have spared one point from somewhere else, because those defensive bonuses are tasty. I generally went for a "good offense is the best defense" approach. So up until the Gaza-Uss bosses or maybe some infernals, I didn't really need much defense as the fights rarely lasted more than a few turns.

For the bigger nasties, I found that, if I put great emphasis on my blessing magic, my Essence Shield was a consistent 380-400 points. That generally stopped at least one round of attacks (sometimes more) before I used one of my 2-3 actions the following turn to cast another and re-up my shield. It was tedious, but no more tedious than hit-and-runs or attacking more indirectly.

14 minutes ago, BenS said:

There are also some decent swords for Agents I note, though those will have to wait for my next run.

Imo, there's really only one. And it's not acquired until at least midway through the game, generally later iirc. Every other blade that might be helpful (at best, none blew me away) had martial weapon minimums of like 3 or 4. Agents can't afford to spend points on weapon skills when there are such yummy magic skills to get on the cheap. And I'm not about to blow six or seven skill points for just +10% evasion or +10% armor or whatevs. 

If I would be critical of the game, there just aren't enough accessory/item options. At least for agents. Come to think of it, I might make a separate thread about it. 

2 hours ago, Randomizer said:

It's to teach you not to kill everyone.

If only I had learned my lesson...

In fact, I dare imagine an alternate ending. One where miss thang continues her wantonly destructive, all-consuming rampage as she glides (level 23 agents hover/glide instead of walk) down into shaper lands and, in her blind fury, gets promptly swarmed and massacred by hundreds of council-loyal zealots. But not before delivering thousands of combatants and civilians alike to the endless depths of death's cold embrace. Glorious.

@alhoon Nah, I rather like it this way. Adds character. I love little inaccuracies or oddball additions in games, even if they are unintentional.

But, after playing enough SW games, I'm half inclined to believe this was intentional. The dev adds fun, quirky elements whenever possible, something I certainly appreciate.

I just thought it was funny/interesting enough to tell y'all.

6 hours ago, alhoon said:

And a puresteel bar. She has a Puresteel bar for sale. 

She's got much more than that. She's got the wrath of god. It can be yours. Help her out to find out... 

Let's talk about Learned Thani for a moment. You know, the self-imposed recluse and presumable namesake of the Hermit Crossroads. Have you ever gotten on his bad side? I have, and what I found out was interesting to say the least...

So, recently I completed my first run of GF2-I. A normal solo-ish agent run of immense satisfaction. After defeating the final foe in Gaza-Uss, my barely-level-23 agent went on a merciless homicidal bender spanning the Drypeaks (like I do). The result of an acute psychotic break

exacerbated by excessive cannister use (abuse?). But I digress...

So an agent went berserk and went on killing everything, including allies and even the ornks. No zone was spared. When she got to Thani, she tossed a massive 350+ damage firebolt and turned to leave, assuming Learned Thani had simply evaporated like all the other roadside merchants, another smoldering crater left behind. When the dust settled and Thani remained, not a scratch on him, the agent became furious. Bolt after bolt. Purge after purge. Nothing was connecting. She seethed with anger and frustration.

"How am I not hitting this guy?" I wondered. When I saw Thani's stats, I had my answer. 

LEVEL 45?! WTF...?!

I sh*t you not: Level 45. It took a good two to three minutes before anything I cast hit the bastard (5% hit chance.) Then another two minutes after that. And another minute after that. Thankfully, his attacks had nowhere near the strength to pierce my E Shield. So we danced for a few minutes before Thani succumbed to the flesh-melting acid I had insisted on imparting. 

Still, why is this servile level 45? And how can I get whatever he was smoking? 

5 hours ago, BloomingLilac said:

If I buy the game on Steam, will I need to start over?

No.

JDubkins, so the ol' Hegemonic Stability Theory. Amiright?

1 minute ago, alhoon said:

Who brought half a dozen infernals here? Why? It's not like they have some big secret. We already know Shaping here. 

According to some dialogue texts they are attracted to the chaos of the time and place. They love chaos, and delight in spreading it. Like my ex wife.

On 4/14/2024 at 10:34 AM, TriRodent said:

yes five infernals

Actually, I spoke too soon. There are actually six infernals total. That sixth one is certainly in good company. Got wedged in there good. No wonder the Emissary couldn't detect him.  😉