What is your favorite shaping class?[G5]

[Lilith]

A magic/fire mix in the first half of the game and War Tralls once they become available seems fairly optimal, although you probably don't need to really pump all three shaping skills.

[Delicious Vlish]

Clawbug / zergling style rush dominates the early game. Why even bother with cryoas?

[Lilith]

There are really only a few places where you have to face a group of enemies all at once; clever tactics can usually allow you to lead enemies out one at a time. Battle creations are at a serious disadvantage against enemies like turrets, which other types can safely pick off simply through careful positioning and ranged attacks. When you do need a source of physical damage, cryoas aren't that much worse in melee than clawbugs, especially after they've gained a few levels.

[Delicious Vlish]

Except that clawbugs pack vicious poison that continues to do damage over many rounds...

[Lilith]

Even on Torment, most individual enemies can be killed in one round -- and for the ones that can't, it doesn't usually matter much if you kill them in 5 rounds instead of 6. Against things that you're going to kill in one round, cryoas will do more damage.

 

Besides, if you want a poisonous melee attack, you can use Vlish.

[Alorael at Large]

Clawbugs seem sturdier than cryoas, although this may have no basis in reality. Clawbugs can also be relied upon to create the zergling swarm. It's very frustrating trying to maneuver cryoas into melee. I frequently find myself using their breath attacks or even telling them to end their turns by accident, and it's just not possible to attack from behind tall enemies. Clawbugs are click and forget infantry.

 

—Alorael, who voted for battle but thinks magic is probably the most evenly reliable. You can count on you magic creations starting with the vlish (artilas still seem too flimsy and too low-energy). Glaahks are nice, wingbolts lethal, and gazers probably on par with war tralls and ahead of drakons. Fire starts strong but loses steam (har har) in the higher tiers. Battle creations are solid but get much better as you progress up the tiers, so trying to start with only clawbugs (or worse, thahds!) and nothing but battle is a bad idea.

[The Ratt]

I managed to rely on Plated Clawbugs from when I got them to when I got Betas, which ended up being a pretty long time.

 

But then I got wingbolts.

[Delicious Vlish]

Plated bugs and clawbugs are very different.

 

Both are great when mixed together for a big buggy swarm.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Clambake Custom!

Clawbugs seem sturdier than cryoas, although this may have no basis in reality.

They have a flat HP bonus of about 30 points. When you first make them, it's significant. If you level them both up, the HP bonus won't make much of a difference in the long run.

[A less presumptuous name.]

I have a cryoa that has been with me since the start, and (s)he rocks totally. I like a mix of types. Always been a fan of Kyshaks, and I finally got drayks without canisters from the person in the north-most fort. Then, I have a battle beta that I decided to try after hearing DV rant about battle creations.

[Gandalf the Purple]

So are creations best permanent or disposable?

[Aoslare]

They are stronger when permanent. But there are obvious advantages to using disposable ones, too -- you don't have to keep them alive and can use whichever one seems best at the time. Typically a permanent, optimal creation will be just as good or better, but it depends how you want to play.

[Lilith]

It also depends how long you plan to keep the same creation types around, of course. Count on the first cryoa you make lasting you for at least half the game: if you can keep it alive, it'll be almost as strong as a drayk by the time you get to the Storm Plains.

 

Once you get to fifth tier, a few levels won't make so much of a difference; if your Gazers or War Tralls die, you may as well just make new ones.

[Delicious Vlish]

If you have a cryoa, and you want to keep it, do your self a favour.

 

Max out str, dex, and end. It doesn't cost very much to do so, and the effect is dramatic. It allows the cryoa to survive the endgame quite easily, the only real trouble is mental status effects, which they are quite weak against.

 

A single vlish is also a great upgrade bargain.

[Aoslare]

Note, however, that you do not need to pump said stats at all until later in the game. Pumping them in the beginning would be a giant waste of essence.

 

Also, I'm not sure it's really necessary to boost Dex at all, unless you start missing.

[Delicious Vlish]

I found dex much needed. Not only for hit, but to keep from being squashed. Otherwise, every attack connects.

 

Dex slows down the incoming damage rate. It is enough to be noticeable, also, it allows the cryoa to start his or her turn sooner.

[Aoslare]

On Torment, doesn't every incoming attack connect *anyway*?

[Delicious Vlish]

No, actually. With protection cast, and some kind of armor spell, like essence armor or something, cast from the chaotic aura spores, even a lowly cryoa manages to have somewhat useful armor effects, but only if you crank dex.

 

This is only useful if you are sentimental about keeping low tier creations around as pets through the endgame.

 

It certainly isn't a power gaming strategy.

[Aoslare]

Interesting -- it does suggest that a higher tier, level 60 creation with pumped dex -- this is realistic for, say, a battle beta -- could become very difficult to hit.

[Delicious Vlish]

Yes, they do. I said they are cheap to upgrade. And it is for this very reason. Well, upgrading strength too. You can get a beta nice and early and upgrade it a good bit in your travels, if you play your cards right.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Yea, I need to pop a few points into intelligence to up my creation stats. My cryoa is about half maxed on all attributes, and is attacking first, before my beta, kyshak, and drayk.

I understand maxing Str and End, Dex if your missing or getting hit constantly, but is Int worth maxing? I believe it helps resist mental effects and might increase spell energy.

[Delicious Vlish]

You can cure mental effects and cryoas don't need spell energy.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Ok, but what about other creations?

[Alorael at Large]

I've never tried Intelligence much, but it doesn't seem like I'd get much mileage out of it. The battle order usually seems to be all of my creations, most enemies, and then my shaper, which works well for Banish Afflictions. I've never had anything run out of energy. (I also haven't relied on artilas or vlishes, which were the most likely to run dry in previous games.) Clawbugs and cryoas have a tendency to flee in terror when they take relatively small amounts of damage, which I suppose intelligence could help with, but I think Endurance would be almost as effective in managing fear and more useful otherwise.

 

—Alorael, who tested this by cheating a bit to make high-tier creations around level 50. With standard buffs, which really just means Protection, even substantial enemies like drayks and wingbolts seem to miss more often than not on normal. On torment they hit regularly, but they miss enough to make a difference.

[Aoslare]

Eyebeasts will run out. Wingbolts can, potentially. Gazers can too.

[Lilith]

The general rule is that magic creations can run out of energy and fire creations can't, basically. Kyshakks are the one big exception: their attacks use a lot of energy and they can easily run out at low levels.

[Alorael at Large]

Gazers and wingbolts can, conceivably, but I've never actually had it happen in G4 or G5. I haven't used eyebeasts, so if their energy use is much higher it's a possible concern.

 

The one possibility is that battles are just much shorter if you're not on torment. Even blasting away every round like clockwork I run out of enemies long before I run out of energy.

 

—Alorael, who has managed to run out of energy with some low-level fire creation once, probabl all the way back in the G1 demo with a fyora. Cryoas barely seem able to change their energy level visibly, and drayks and drakons could easily be mistaken for energy-free shapings. Kyshakks do use energy, but only if you're not playing a Fire Shaping-focused build.

[Aoslare]

Battles *are* shorter on Normal. Eyebeasts can run out even on Normal.

 

Cryoa and Cryodrayk attacks use 0 energy, I believe. The fire attacks use 4 energy, and a level 1 or 2 Fyora in G1 is required to not recharge that much energy every round.

[Dahak]

Cryoa and Cryodrayk do not use 0 energy. I've seen the energy drop only to be nearly recharged the next round. Prolonged combat however will show a small drop in energy for a cryodrayk.

[Randomizer]

Fyoras, cryoas, drayks, and cryodrayks recharge as fast as they attack even when hasted. The others can all run out of energy if you attack enough.

[Aoslare]

Apparently ice breath uses 30 energy now. It was zero in earlier games, at least in G2 and G3.

[Dikiyoba]

Dikiyoba just checked. Cryoas and cryodrayks do use energy in G1. Ice attacks cost four, just like fire attacks.

[Aoslare]

Hmm. G2 and G3 it costs 50. Okay, I'm crazy.