Canisters and Endings (spoilers)[G5]

[Sleeping Dragon]

Canisters don't seem to be as big a deal in this game as they were in previous ones. I guess since you're altered from the start everyone just sort of expects you to use them (Rawal seems to approve of you using that first one in his fortress). Can anyone who has finished the game, preferably multiple times, tell me how big an effect canisters have in the endings? Even if it's just a few lines like it's been in previous games, I'd like to know whether or not the only thing I have to gain from not using them is the RP value (my loyalists never use canisters ).

[Aoslare]

I don't know about the ending (which is not in scripts), but there are only three places where the scripts check canister use. One is dialogue only and checks for 8 or more. The others are forced combat checks: at the Dera Bridge for 15 or more and in Outer Gazaki-Uss for 10 or more.

[Randomizer]

I know that Dera Bridge just gives a check on whether you want to attack, but doesn't force you to attack.

[Aoslare]

Are you sure you tried it after using *fifteen* canisters? The script certainly looks like it forces you to attack.

[Randomizer]

I'm pretty sure that I was at 15 at that point, because I got a dialog option to attack and the script doesn't seem to have a second check for in between 15 and a lower amount. I've played through the area with about 6 to 8 canisters and never got the attack option.

[Lilith]

How early in the beta was this? Perhaps it was changed.

[Aoslare]

Look at the script, Randomizer -- you get a dialog option either way. It only forces you if you have 15. Assumptions are so easy to check...

[Randomizer]

I just reached the Dera Bridge after using more than 15 canisters and I have the option to attack, but don't have to attack. This game is a canister junkie and I've used the 4 canisters in the Foundry Repository, stole 3 from the lab in Gazaki-Uss and use the banish affliction one there, the daze and strong daze canisters, strength from Control Core B, the create drayk from Podling Crossing, create kyshakk, burning spray, searer, icy spray, acid shower, essence lances, essence shield, and battle roar.

[Sleeping Dragon]

Quick question, more of an opinion type question: if I want to join Agent Astoria, do you think she'd approve of me using canisters?

[Randomizer]

She has one hidden in her rooms. The only ones that don't approve of canisters are the Trakovites and the Shapers like Alwan and Taygen that want to enforce the rules.

[Hecate]

I've forgotten how many I used. Is there a cheat to show me the number?

[Alorael at Large]

Actually, I have no idea. You can cheat to set the number, but if there's a way to display SDF values then I don't know of it.

 

—Alorael, who finds this unlikely. It almost certainly exists, undocumented. Unless it has been documented?

[Aoslare]

If you reaaaaaally wanted to, you could edit a zone script to provide a set of dialogues, checking for various values of the canister use SDF, and telling you which you had.

[Alorael at Large]

Is it possible to set up a script to give the character an amount of gold equal to gf(100,0)? If so, you can make a very easy check.

 

—Alorael, who could answer this question himself with five minutes and the BoA manual. Instead, he'll rely on the internet.

[Dahak]

change_coins( gf(100,0) );

[Alorael at Large]

So the scripts really are just like mini-C. Good to know.

 

—Alorael, who was mostly unsure whether gf could be called in a non-conditional capacity. As far as he could see in the scripts or recall from the games, it isn't.

[Dahak]

However, I think 100,0 might be the wrong flag. I got back 84 coins.

 

Edit:

100,22 is the flag to use according to canisters.txt

[Alorael at Large]

Oh, yes. I've been paying attention to shaper/rebel reputation, which is 100,0.

 

—Alorael, who wonders how, exactly, Jeff can stand working with variables that aren't given names. It's an elementary programming mistake (he said so himself!), and while one-time messages could just be (zone number, message number) thinks like reputation really could be described.

[Corker]

A variable without a name would be a literal wouldn't it? The variable 'a' can store a varying number of values, but the number 10 can only ever be the number 10.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Corker

A variable without a name would be a literal wouldn't it? The variable 'a' can store a varying number of values, but the number 10 can only ever be the number 10.

"100,0" may, technically, be a name for a variable, but it is not a good name for a variable.

[Alorael at Large]

I am reasonably confident that Jeff does not, in fact, individually declare variables with names consisting only of two numbers and a comma in between.

 

—Alorael, who should have been more precise. The variables do have names. They just don't have good names. They are, in fact, only a step above giving your variables random strings as names. sdkfghjks++

[Aoslare]

In may day, we programmed in BASIC, and variable names were limited to one or two alphabet letters.

 

Now I just wait for Randomizer to make some comment about VAX assembly or whatnot.

[Dahak]

This is just the coordinate in a 30x300 short int array.

100,0 is not the name of a variable. It is a space within the variable.

[Khoth]

The ideal system is one where variables are referred to by numbers, with the same variable using different numbers depending on where you use it.

 

I've seen something like it used to good effect in a real programming language, oddly.

[Lilith]

So, hey, how about we talk about those endings, huh?

 

Just finished the Ghaldring path last night. After Randomizer went on a while ago about how depressing all of the endings were, I was expecting it to be worse than it was, but it was actually pretty satisfying. Canister use doesn't seem to change the ending at all, but maybe it has more of an effect on the other paths.

[The Ratt]

Yeah, I imagine the extreme rebels wouldn't be to upset if you were a canister junkie that was almost insane (they might care if you were insane, you would take away from their power ).

[Randomizer]

I was depressed with how after all that work to finish the game, you get sent to minor leagues. I thought the battle would be harder for Ghaldring's faction and it was easier than the other endings.

 

Slarty - I never really used VAX assemby language. Still in all assembly languages variables are just numbers stored in a specific memory location in a stack. Ah, the good old days when you had to be careful when you programmmed to get what you thought you were getting.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

I was depressed with how after all that work to finish the game, you get sent to minor leagues. I thought the battle would be harder for Ghaldring's faction and it was easier than the other endings.

Why would the final battle on the Ghaldring path be harder? If you do nothing (the Rawal ending), the rebels win, so obviously they're stronger than the Shapers.

[Randomizer]

I thought that going up against the Shaper Citadel and the Shaper Council would be harder or at least as hard as clearing Gazaki-Uss. Wimpy Shapers were falling to area attacks that barely killed the Rebels.