G2 & G3 - Which is longer?

[Janitorial Closet]

I was maybe going to get one of them, along with Geneforge 1. Which of the two, Geneforge 2 and Geneforge 3, would keep me occupied for longer until I have the money to buy the other one?

 

 

(Why do I get the feeling I made a thread like this before?)

[Hydromedia]

Well,

Geneforge 3 is definitely far better in my opinion, because 2 has all the roughness in the UI of 1, and none of the flair and added benefits (like getting greta or alwan) that 3 does. 3 is better in my opinio but I'm no quite sure which is longer... Geneforge 3 has more replay value because its better (of course) though.

[Dikiyoba]

You can actually get the first three Geneforge games together for $55. That makes more sense than buying two, then buying the third one later.

 

But to answer your question, G2 has four sects (plus the option to remain unaligned), while G3 only has two (and you have to choose one), so G2 is longer when it comes to seeing and doing absolutely everything.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Hydromedia]

Very true, but that doesn't defeat the fact that i played G3 twice and G2 only once. I felt like a second play through was too much, as i had already seen everything i wanted to. If you're looking for alot of factions there is always the first one and i agree, you should be able to scrounge the $50 to buy the trilogy. Do you already have G4 and is that why you're asking this? Though i do like the older ones the UI bugs me once i had played G4 and 3, also the fact that you need to up your strength to carry more things is a pain. Summary: If you dont have G4 get that, otherwise get the trilogy.

[Dikiyoba]

You may have played through G3 twice and G2 once, but I played through G2 at least twice and zero times through G3, so it all depends on what you like.

 

Dikiyoba disliked G3's inventory system, for instance. It had the old encumbrance system while making dropping and selling items slower.

[Xaiya]

I think one playthrough of G3 would generally be long than a playthrough of G2, but G2 gives you the chance to play at least 5 times doing things differently (4 factions plus unaligned).

 

Besides, the way G2 is it feels longer than G3.

Also, G3 is really annoying because you and your creations walk super fast while Alwan and Greta walk normal speeds.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba

You can actually get the first three Geneforge games together for $55. That makes more sense than buying two, then buying the third one later.

Always a good idea to buy the games in bulk. I also recommend spending the extra few dollars and getting them on CD, so that you have a backup copy available, just in case.

But as to which of G2 & G3 is longer, I'd say they're about even. G3 is definitely larger in overall area, so there's more places to explore; and G2 has more sects you can join, giving you more replay options.

[John S]

I know this doesn't answer the original question, but if a person plans to play all three games, I recommend playing in order. Otherwise, skip G2; get G1 and G3.

[Sudanna]

The story and open-endedness of G2 far surpasses G3.

 

If you don't like G2, then you don't like FREEDOM.

[Sleeping Dragon]

Originally Posted By: Iffy

Also, G3 is really annoying because you and your creations walk super fast while Alwan and Greta walk normal speeds.

Oh, I didn't have that problem. Perhaps it was a bug?

I would play the games in order simply because I'm obsessive compulsive, but I would also recommend Geneforge 2 as a better game. It had lots of factions, and I think you will get more out of it than Geneforge 3. Though if you do indeed prefer not making so many choices and just enjoying a good plot, you might like Geneforge 3.

[Sudanna]

You and Alwan/Greta are assigned different move speeds. You can change it if you go into the scripts.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Sleeping Dragon

Oh, I didn't have that problem. Perhaps it was a bug?

Or perhaps somebody's been using an editor -- one of them makes creations zip across the map at lightning speed. Really, I don't have anything against cheating, but people who modify the game by replacing scripts that do things they don't understand shouldn't complain if it causes problems.

[Dikiyoba]

To be fair, it's not always obvious what exactly an editor changes, so misleading advertising is part of the problem.

 

Edit:

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

Always a good idea to buy the games in bulk. I also recommend spending the extra few dollars and getting them on CD, so that you have a backup copy available, just in case.

That price already includes the CD, actually.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Student of Trinity]

Opinions are sharply divided on G2 vs. G3. Most everyone thinks G4 is the best of the series so far, and most people put G1 a close second, in spite of its more primitive interface and ruleset, because of its novelty. The middle games are also both excellent games, but they're quite different from each other, and many people much prefer one to the other.

 

G2 is Jeff's last 'combat tourist' game, in which the PC is free to wander the entire world pretty much at whim, up to the limits of your character's current power level, as in G1. But just as in G1, the world is static. In every zone, no matter when you enter it and no matter what you have done before entering it, you will find the same pre-ordained things there. In G1 this made some sense because most of the island was in a sort of suspended animation, and the few theoretically active NPCs were at a reasonable and recently established stalemate. In G2 the stasis can sort of be justified if you try hard, but it's quite a bit more of a stretch. Powerful and desperate factions are racing for supremacy, and yet absolutely nothing actually happens except the player's own actions. There are four different plot threads that you can choose among, and even combine up to a point, but in each one the entire plot consists only of about three key quests, none of which individually is very elaborate. So most of G2 is combat tourism: wander around, look at the well-curated exhibits, and kill stuff.

 

That's not to say G2 is shallow or unworthy. It's a great game, and contains some very cool themes and characters, plus a lot more spells and creations than G1. And in a lot of ways its style is ideal for the episode that it presents in the longer Geneforge story arc. G2 is the escalation phase, in which the buried secrets that emerged in G1 grow into a major threat to Shaper power. It makes sense that it's a stalled schmozzle among rival demigods, who all leapt to power from practically nothing but are now blocking each other from reaching the next level, until one determined apprentice tips the balance decisively.

 

G3 is much more locked down, like G4 but in some ways even more so. The game is set on a series of small islands, and you can't progress between islands without accomplishing various major goals. There are also only two sects to consider, and while the player can still switch back and forth several times, you are forced from quite an early stage to choose between actions that benefit one side or the other, with no real option to compromise or follow some third alternative. Exploration is still free within each island, and there are still a lot of choices of what to do when. There are also a lot of isolated sealed labs and the like, to be explored without much connection to the main plot. So the player is not simply railroaded along one track; but overall the game feels very much more linear than G2.

 

On the other hand the non-player world in G3 is much more active than in previous games. There's no strategic AI planning NPC moves outside combat, or anything like that, and there are only a few scripted events that depend on previous actions. But on each island there is some major event which has only just occurred, and with which the PC must deal in order to move on. Since within each small island there are relatively few zones to visit, the impression is that the PC is reacting to aggressive actions by NPCs. There are also several NPCs who are encountered in several different zones, having done various things in between the meetings. You get to know these characters as more than simply bosses that stand in thronerooms.

 

G3 also introduced underground sub-zones, item enhancements, some hints of advanced Shaper magic, and a few new artifacts. Every island has a dramatically different climate. And the two-sided nature of the game, where for each side you're either with us or against us, is a natural lead-in to G4. In G3, the war begins in earnest. No more sitting on the fence powergaming for your own little side. This is bigger than you are.

 

G2 and G3 are both great games, and for the full experience you should definitely get both. But which one you'll want to choose if you have to is hard to say. I guess I'd take G2 just so that then you can do them in the logical order.

[Aoslare]

I don't think opinion is sharply divided at all. G3 is a good game and probably does not deserve all of the criticism it gets: but it deserves most of it, as the game contains elements that are extremely annoying (the boats) and its new features, such as those SoT lists, are picayune. G2 had a much less recycled plot and a vibrant expansion of game mechanics (new creations, expanded differences between creations, loads of new spells, and completely redone mechanics for creation stats, as well as some tweaks to the PC's skillset). G2 isn't universally loved, but it is very widely preferred to G3.

[Janitorial Closet]

Well, I was planning on getting the $55 dollar trilogy anyway, but a situation could very likely come up that I could only get two of them. Thanks a lot, people, you helped me with my decision.

 

If I can only get two of them, I think I'm getting 1 and 2.

[Student of Trinity]

Opinion is sharply divided, in the sense that some people strongly prefer G2 to G3, and others just as strongly prefer G3. Few people seem to like the games equally. It is quite true that, around here at least, a lot more people are in the G2 camp.

 

The boats honestly aren't such a bad thing in G3, except that their graphic is ridiculous. What bug people most, I believe, are three things. On the second island you have to choose between two bad alternatives, but the game doesn't do enough to convince you that no better third option is possible, so the badness seems arbitrary. People find the small islands claustrophobic, even though in practice you probably have about as much freedom as in G1, where sharp difficulty gradients channel the player, and rather more than in G4. And G3 is the third game in a row in which an innocent young Shaper apprentice sets out to meet the rebels and destroy the Geneforge, so the overall story pattern is getting old.

 

On the plus side, the underground zones and item enhancements are indeed rather minor bits of chrome. But the impression of much higher NPC activity in G3 seems to me to be a major advance. It isn't so noticeable when you're replaying the games, or even when you're playing G3 for the first time after having recently replayed G1 and G2 several times. In those cases, you've basically forgotten all about the NPCs and the plots, and are focused on the battles and loot. But if you come back to both games after a while, the serial interactions with Alwan, Greta, Hoge and Litalia, or even Khyrryk, Lankan and Rahul, make Barzahl and Pinner and their peers seem pretty trivial. And playing in the recent aftermath of the great rebel assault on the Ashen Isles makes the bizarre stasis of G2 seem quite unreal. In G3, for the first time, I have the feeling that the world is really changing.

 

G3 was Jeff's first experiment in channeling the player more strictly in order to be able to make the simplified plot tree more sophisticated. He swung a bit too far, making the islands too confining and the two sides too arbitrary. But he gained something important, that I think has paid off well in G4 and A5, and promises well for the future of Spiderweb.

[Zeviz]

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

Opinion is sharply divided, in the sense that some people strongly prefer G2 to G3, and others just as strongly prefer G3. Few people seem to like the games equally.
...

By that logic, opinions on whether George Bush is a good president are also strongly divided.

More seriously, G3 used to be almost universally disliked as Spidweb's second worst game (the all-time worst being A4). Even Jeff himself admitted that he was dissatisfied with it. However, there are some newer players who were drawn to Spidweb by games like A4 and G4 and don't like the style of the older games as much.

So my suggestion is that if you like Spidweb's other games such as Avernum trilogy and original Geneforge, you'll prefer G2. If your favorite Spidweb game is Avernum 4, you'll prefer G3. In either case, you should try the demos before buying, because they usually give a good feel for the games.

EDIT: To clarify, G3 might not be a bad game in itself, but the plot is too similar to the previous 2 games, so the order in which you play them has a large impact on your opinion. G3 is also far less concerned with player choice and gives you less roleplaying opportunity, but is shinier and more focused on combat.

[Xaiya]

Now that I think about it, I got G3 from my brother.

Also, there was some editor thing at the beginning. I should have realized this before.

[Student of Trinity]

Opinions about Bush are sharply divided. Hardly anyone counts him as barely satisfactory; he's either great, or appalling. Sharp division means that there's not much gradation between, not that the division is even.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

On the plus side, the underground zones and item enhancements are indeed rather minor bits of chrome.

I wouldn't call zones that don't show up on the map an improvement. It just means more walking time. So instead of being able to grab the Heart of the Kiln in G4 and head straight from the workshop to Rivergate Keep, I have to walk through part of Dillame Fields and all of Dillame first.

Dikiyoba.

[Aoslare]

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

Opinions about Bush are sharply divided. Hardly anyone counts him as barely satisfactory; he's either great, or appalling. Sharp division means that there's not much gradation between, not that the division is even.

It also implies that a significant number of people hold each opinion. Frankly, I can't think of anybody who's actually stated that they prefer 3 to 2, except possibly you, and I'm not even sure about that. 3 is a good game, but opinion is not sharply divided; it is grossly, though not universally, against 3.

[John S]

I liked 3 more than 2.

[Student of Trinity]

Hmm, I guess that's true about sharp division. One voice crying in the wilderness doesn't qualify.

 

I'm pretty sure I've seen some preference for G3 expressed here recently. Maybe that only makes two of us, but I think there must be a few more among the lurkers. Maybe enough to count as division of opinion, which would then (we seem to agree) be sharp.

 

Whatever. I think that G3 looks better, and G2 worse, after playing G4. From G2 to G3 there was a sort of genre shift, and although G3 was a somewhat flawed example of the new genre, after G4 I appreciate the genre better, and G3 improves for it. And G2 gives so much less illusion of interactivity that after G4 I find it harder to deal with questions like why the mighty Barzahl needs little apprentice me to get anything done. G4 has analogous questions, but is enough above threshold that I instinctively make up rationalizations for them. Going back to G2, now, it seems harder to avoid the fact that Barzahl isn't just unable to defeat the Takers single-handed, the way I can: he's unable to move.

[Student of Trinity]

I'm not keen on long hikes, either, but I usually don't find the underground areas too bad that way. I hate the map-switches more, because I often have to do them several times in the course of the game.

 

But what I like about the underground areas is that they are surprises. All Geneforge surface zones seem to be the same size, so once you enter one, you know where its other edges are, and thus how it connects to other surface zones. Trapdoors are wild cards that can appear anywhere, and you can only find out where they are and where they go the hard way.

[Janitorial Closet]

Originally Posted By: Zeviz

More seriously, G3 used to be almost universally disliked as Spidweb's second worst game (the all-time worst being A4).

Okay, I thought I was weird for absolutely hating A4. I feel better now.

[BlueRivets]

I never really finshed G3, but I had a strong desire to get it over as fast as possible. Whilst when playing G2 I took my time, and savored the juicy steak of a game. So I assume if I did finish G3 it would take me a shorter amount of time, then G2 took me.

[Evnissyen]

My advice: If you're interested in learning the history and politics of the series from the beginning: start with G1 and then proceed numerically. If you're interested in enjoyment: Download all three demos (if you haven't already) and see which game you enjoy best. In my opinion: G3 has a friendlier interface and is therefore easier to play, and has other options such as the ability to create magical items. That, in comparison to the loss of the factional elements of G2, affects its replay value.

 

Dikiyoba:

The 'hidden' zones in G3 give a sense of physical depth to the game. In comparison, the original is flat, two dimensional. Everything is laid out for us on the map. The 'hidden' areas give the game three dimensions.

 

I'll also second everything SoT says about those areas.

 

And the boats are only a minor inconvenience. What it does do is give you a sense of not only the differing physical climates but also the differing social and situational climates. If I'd played the game after G2 I'd probably have the same reaction to it as I did with the divisions in A5. But you can get used to it.

 

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Evnissyen

Dikiyoba:
The 'hidden' zones in G3 give a sense of physical depth to the game. In comparison, the original is flat, two dimensional. Everything is laid out for us on the map. The 'hidden' areas give the game three dimensions.

I'll also second everything SoT says about those areas.

Meh. If the game says I'm going underground and it looks like I'm underground, then I'll believe I'm underground even if it's on the map. The annoyance of having to walk further than I need to kind of ruins everything else about them for me, since I loot everything and usually have to do go back two or three times.

Dikiyoba is not a fan of map switching either.

[Aoslare]

G1, more than the others, is certainly not flat - the landscape and especially the world map definitely gave me the impression of differing elevations when I played.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba

Edit:

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

Always a good idea to buy the games in bulk. I also recommend spending the extra few dollars and getting them on CD, so that you have a backup copy available, just in case.

That price already includes the CD, actually.

Dikiyoba.

(slaps self in the forehead, hopefully knocking memory back into place)
Oops, I guess I forgot, despite the fact that I bought the trilogy that way.

[Shaper Anton]

Geneforge 2 is longer, more twist, but Geneforge 3 is more fun, especially when you reach Dohnal's Keep

[Ghaldring]

Geneforge 2 definitely felt longer than Geneforge 3. It was also infinitely more enjoyable.

[Brock The Archmage]

Well, now I see what the criticism about G3 was. hmmm.

 

Any way, I disagree with most of the criticism, but then, the system getting a small amount clunkier doesn't bother me-I play games like this from a roleplaying view, and also sometimes a powergaming view, in which case I roleplay a power-hungry maniac. hehe, nice. The boats are mildly annoying though.