Geneforge crossover ideas

[ultra112]

If you guys were to crossover Geneforge with any other franchises which one will you pick and why?

[alhoon]

That is an interesting question ... to which I have no ready answer. Some names pop up but they are not good fits at all. I would be looking for a franchise where it is medieval fantasy with mages holding a lot of power and potential. Whether they are creating Creations, raising Undead, summoning elementals, making golems etc I would look for a co-franchise where the mages would draw much of their power from their ability to create minions. 

The Minion-mancy if you want. 

[ultra112]

so what franchises do you have in mind at first?

[Goldengirl]

Avernum. The Shapers eventually fled underground from the devastation caused by escalating warfare, and they became the Vahnatai. The surface world recovers over centuries, until the Shapers re-emerge to create new magical plagues of monsters after surface world people unwisely kidnap the crystal souls.

 

In more seriousness, I wouldn't mind seeing a strategy game take on Geneforge. Maybe an RTS? Take us through the Rebellion, the sacking of Valeya and Poryphra, the rout of the rebel army at Thornton, the desperate assault of Northforge Citadel, the breaching of the line at Fort Rockfall, the climactic battles at Gazaki-Uss or the Shaper Citadel. If one Shaper is an army, why not let us see how those armies fare?

[alhoon]

4 minutes ago, Goldengirl said:

Avernum.

Oh come on, that was way too easy. It is not really a different franchise. 

Edited March 7 by alhoon

[Aoslare]

*faceplant*

[Randomizer]

10 minutes ago, Dry Peak, Soggy Bottom said:

*faceplant*

Averforge Lives!

[ultra112]

I was wondering how about with the Harry Potter universe, I mean having a master class shaper being spirited away into that universe during an accident from an experiment, it would be interesting to see how their presence affect that world like how would the wizard world react to shaping in general.

[alhoon]

I would also like to see how the Shaper would react to mages hiding their existence instead of being worshipped. 

[ultra112]

Yeah it would be an interesting contrast for both sides when they interact 

[alhoon]

It would also be interesting, depending on the technology of the era the Shaper would show up in. If a Shaper shows up during the book times, he or she would have to deal with jawdropping technology from the Common, including the atomic weapons. If that Shaper returned back to Terrestia, she would go ballistic on the Sholai and their cannons. It is not that the Shapers need much of a reason to be imperialistic and "Fear of technology" could propel them to launch an invasion on the lands of the Sholai. 
While technology of the Terrestia reality can't do much to Shapers (my heroic boat-drayk that is not a weapon, took down a Sholai warship with a single hit, RIP my poor poor boat-drayk 😢) the realization that they could eventually create world-ending death-machines that could be launched from the other side of the world could motivate the Shapers to attack.

Edited March 8 by alhoon

[ultra112]

Yeah that would be a possibility then again if given the time will the shaper be able to recreate something similar with their art, now that is the million dollar question?

[alhoon]

1 hour ago, ultra112 said:

Yeah that would be a possibility then again if given the time will the shaper be able to recreate something similar with their art, now that is the million dollar question?

Sooo... we veneered from "Combine with Harry Potter!!!" to... "Combine with Fallout" 

 

Yes, that would be interesting. 

[ultra112]

Yep we definitely are getting a bit off topic here, let's just focus on the wizardly world of Harry potter 

[alhoon]

I don't think "Fallout & Geneforge" is off topic, to be honest. 

[ultra112]

Technically no, but weren't we just talking about Harry potter/Geneforge 

[ultra112]

Come to think of it isn't the purity agent a somewhat equivalent to a nuke

[ultra112]

Also I do wonder if the war trall for the remake will look something like this

[ultra112]

I wonder what a crossover of Geneforge with World of Warcraft will look like?

[ultra112]

You know scratch that, perhaps what would happen if a shaper got thrown in the world of Ravenloft?

[Aoslare]

a lot of vlish

[ultra112]

What's that supposed to mean?

[alhoon]

10 minutes ago, ultra112 said:

You know scratch that, perhaps what would happen if a shaper got thrown in the world of Ravenloft?

I can tell you that, because I have run such a campaign in Ravenloft.

Long story short, the Shaper has insane power. Thus, either the Shaper choses to hide it, or the Shaper uses it.

 

- If the Shaper uses it, he or she attracts a ton of attention as most places in Ravenloft view magic as inherently evil and that is before an outlander with a superiority complex starts throwing monsters out.  Thus, the Shaper will either have to become progressively more violent to defend himself/herself or the Shaper will be swallowed by the fear he or she causes - to the evil creatures of the domain or the Darklord or even the not-bad populace that sees the nose-in-the-sky, pro-magocracy guy as a threat. 

 

- if the Shaper decides to hide the power to avoid the above, the Dark Power (or the DM) would throw increasingly more tempting curveballs to the Shaper's way, trying to push the Shaper to reveal his or her great power and go the other route. If the Shaper uses magic to heal, then priests would consider that Shaper a cleric of a bizarre deity. Again, that's dangerous in many places but honestly, it is perhaps the safest route. 

 

Now, in my campaign, the Shaper in question was pretty weak. She decided to keep the power hidden. Lasted for a session and a half before the party she was in needed "a bit of extra help" after they got injured and isolated in a room within a cursed house. She tried to pass the Creations she made as summonings but after the first two creations died and she was exhibiting sadness and anger over her creations dying - and summoning does not work in the usual way in Ravenloft - the others figured something was amiss. Furthermore, the dead creations left behind their bodies. And the two creations that survived didn't dissipate. 

Well, one turned rogue later and she killed it immediately, without any regrets, calling it "a rogue". By that time, the other characters (not they players, they were aware) were really mistrusting her and confronted her about it. The character, not accustomed to dirty non-Shapers questioning her had a negative reaction and eventually pompously explained what she could do. 

Then, not much later, the party learned of a cursed lake that was spawning what she called rogues. The Shaper was pretty sure that was an essence pool that someone was misusing. Not completely correct but not 100% wrong either; it was a cursed pool that evil druids were using to augment animals under their control and turn them evil. Like awaken animal but with some boost on the stats. Nature versus civilization kind. 

Eventually the short campaign ended without resolution as life got in the way. 

[ultra112]

Wow that sounds like an interesting campaign you are running a damn shame that it ended short 

[ultra112]

so how did the party react to the capabilities of her powers

[alhoon]

8 minutes ago, ultra112 said:

so how did the party react to the capabilities of her powers

From "burn the witch" to "she is lying! SHE IS LYING!!! Only the gods can create life!" 

They never trusted her, even before they found out. They were an untrustworthy bunch. One character tried to shoot her in the back (I was playing Ravenloft with 17th century tech) because of... I don't remember. Somethng with splitting the loot and her being superior while he was a slave or something. 

The in-game disagreement turned to an out-of-game disagreement and contributed to the game ending early. Also the mistrust didn't go just towards the Shaper's character. Half the party didn't trust the other half. They were working together because they had to, not because they wanted to. 

 

I don't remember much but many of the characters were from a world where a large nation was deep into rebellion with Monarchists against Republicans. Not French Revolution, not exactly; the sides were mostly on equal footing. Regardless, the monarchists didn't like those that were pro-Republic. Another outlander was from a military dictatorship (Kinda - think like early Rome / Sparta). And the Shaper was from a magocracy. 

In hindsight, it was a recipe for disaster. 

Edited March 24 by alhoon

[ultra112]

Oh sh*t, that is one giant mess you are dealing with 

[Randomizer]

"Trust the thief, he's in our party."

 

I played with parties like that and if we ween't actively fighting something else we could be at least pranking each other if not killing members played by people we didn't like in the real world.. There's nothing like an elf mage using wishes to cast permeant fairy fire to outline other party members until the game master reminded him on the aging effects. Or when a lich attacked at night, yelling out his teleport spell was his way of waking up the sleeping party member who didn't wake up in time. Killing off party members as a source of loot.

 

I understand.

[ultra112]

Wow that's a total dick move to do in a game that emphasizes on teamwork.

[ultra112]

I wonder what are any other settings that you guys played using Shapers as your PC?

Edited March 24 by ultra112

[ultra112]

On 3/24/2024 at 10:55 AM, alhoon said:

From "burn the witch" to "she is lying! SHE IS LYING!!! Only the gods can create life!" 

They never trusted her, even before they found out. They were an untrustworthy bunch. One character tried to shoot her in the back (I was playing Ravenloft with 17th century tech) because of... I don't remember. Somethng with splitting the loot and her being superior while he was a slave or something. 

The in-game disagreement turned to an out-of-game disagreement and contributed to the game ending early. Also the mistrust didn't go just towards the Shaper's character. Half the party didn't trust the other half. They were working together because they had to, not because they wanted to. 

 

I don't remember much but many of the characters were from a world where a large nation was deep into rebellion with Monarchists against Republicans. Not French Revolution, not exactly; the sides were mostly on equal footing. Regardless, the monarchists didn't like those that were pro-Republic. Another outlander was from a military dictatorship (Kinda - think like early Rome / Sparta). And the Shaper was from a magocracy. 

In hindsight, it was a recipe for disaster. 

Also, I wonder if the Shaper's reactions to her party members in denial would be like "Why is this so difficult for everyone to accept". Oh and btw what creations did you used in the campaign?

 

[alhoon]

2 hours ago, ultra112 said:

Also, I wonder if the Shaper's reactions to her party members in denial would be like "Why is this so difficult for everyone to accept". Oh and btw what creations did you used in the campaign?

 

She was actually expecting them to not believe it, but she was a bit hurt. I am not sure if that was a bit of player-thought tainting how the character would react though; hard to play when none of your fellow characters like you. 

For Creations, I had a bunch of custom made ones. She opted for one flying thing with a poison stinger (similar to pseudodragon, now that I think of it, but the poison didn't put someone to sleep, but did damage) and ... something that was not flying and spitting acid. Not like the roamers though; I don't remember. 

I had more in mind, but they were never Shaped in game. 

[ultra112]

3 minutes ago, alhoon said:

She was actually expecting them to not believe it, but she was a bit hurt. I am not sure if that was a bit of player-thought tainting how the character would react though; hard to play when none of your fellow characters like you. 

For Creations, I had a bunch of custom made ones. She opted for one flying thing with a poison stinger (similar to pseudodragon, now that I think of it, but the poison didn't put someone to sleep, but did damage) and ... something that was not flying and spitting acid. Not like the roamers though; I don't remember. 

I had more in mind, but they were never Shaped in game. 

Oh you shaped a wingbolt and an artila in the campaign, nice.

Edited March 25 by ultra112

[alhoon]

1 hour ago, ultra112 said:

Oh you shaped a wingbolt and an artila in the campaign, nice.

Now that you mention it, the thing was like an artila! I should have simply called it that, as it was, IIRC ... a big worm that spat acid. I could remember wrong though. 

Also, not a wingbolt. Certainly not. A cute thing with a hairy round body and wings and a devil-like tail with a stinger. 

[ultra112]

ah ok then, so what about the party members are they all human or some of them non-human

[alhoon]

26 minutes ago, ultra112 said:

ah ok then, so what about the party members are they all human or some of them non-human

I remember two gnomes, my sister always take a half-elf so I think that's what she went for... and I don't remember the rest. Six people in total. Reached 8 at some point with the Creations. That the others did not consider party members.  This happened in late 2016 BTW. Or early 2017, but more probably 2016. 

 

Honestly, if I had to describe the party, they would be closer to Barzite reactions. "Use them and abuse them" approach on Creations. Expendable, dangerous and should be kept on a short leash. There were jokes like "Send Pugsy down that corridor to trigger the traps! You can always make another!" etc. 

Edited March 25 by alhoon

[ultra112]

Damn, those are some real nasty people right there, even though what they say are true in some capacity.

Edited March 25 by ultra112

[alhoon]

7 minutes ago, ultra112 said:

Damn, those are some real nasty people right there, even though what they say are true in some capacity.

Let's not pretend both of us have not sent creations out to flush out mines or blow up on enemies. Or simply to be next to valuables we would loot once the shop-keeper went away. 

Edited March 25 by alhoon

[ultra112]

yeah that's true, but we don't say that stuff outright though

[ultra112]

Come to think of it I wonder how will the gods in the DnD world would react to the presence of a shaper in their world?

[ultra112]

On 3/24/2024 at 4:47 AM, alhoon said:

I can tell you that, because I have run such a campaign in Ravenloft.

Long story short, the Shaper has insane power. Thus, either the Shaper choses to hide it, or the Shaper uses it.

 

- If the Shaper uses it, he or she attracts a ton of attention as most places in Ravenloft view magic as inherently evil and that is before an outlander with a superiority complex starts throwing monsters out.  Thus, the Shaper will either have to become progressively more violent to defend himself/herself or the Shaper will be swallowed by the fear he or she causes - to the evil creatures of the domain or the Darklord or even the not-bad populace that sees the nose-in-the-sky, pro-magocracy guy as a threat. 

 

- if the Shaper decides to hide the power to avoid the above, the Dark Power (or the DM) would throw increasingly more tempting curveballs to the Shaper's way, trying to push the Shaper to reveal his or her great power and go the other route. If the Shaper uses magic to heal, then priests would consider that Shaper a cleric of a bizarre deity. Again, that's dangerous in many places but honestly, it is perhaps the safest route. 

 

Now, in my campaign, the Shaper in question was pretty weak. She decided to keep the power hidden. Lasted for a session and a half before the party she was in needed "a bit of extra help" after they got injured and isolated in a room within a cursed house. She tried to pass the Creations she made as summonings but after the first two creations died and she was exhibiting sadness and anger over her creations dying - and summoning does not work in the usual way in Ravenloft - the others figured something was amiss. Furthermore, the dead creations left behind their bodies. And the two creations that survived didn't dissipate. 

Well, one turned rogue later and she killed it immediately, without any regrets, calling it "a rogue". By that time, the other characters (not they players, they were aware) were really mistrusting her and confronted her about it. The character, not accustomed to dirty non-Shapers questioning her had a negative reaction and eventually pompously explained what she could do. 

Then, not much later, the party learned of a cursed lake that was spawning what she called rogues. The Shaper was pretty sure that was an essence pool that someone was misusing. Not completely correct but not 100% wrong either; it was a cursed pool that evil druids were using to augment animals under their control and turn them evil. Like awaken animal but with some boost on the stats. Nature versus civilization kind. 

Eventually the short campaign ended without resolution as life got in the way. 

The Darklord afraid of the shaper, really? Cause I thought they would be more powerful than a shaper could be.

[alhoon]

9 hours ago, ultra112 said:

The Darklord afraid of the shaper, really? Cause I thought they would be more powerful than a shaper could be.

 

Certainly not all. For starters a Shaper can be very very powerful mage even without the Creations. Think a Geneforge Agent after exploring much of the island. The spells and hp are enough to beat back Drayks. Then, on a character with some serious fighting skills (Guardian) or magic (Agent)... add an army of powerful creations! Think a 12th level D&D character that can simply make a party of 3-5 level 6-8 individuals! Or for a Shaper, a 10th level D&D character that can make a party of 4-6 level 8-10 individuals. As per the "wording" and experience we have from the games, Shaper creations are not pushovers. An experienced Shaper with 3 Battle Alphas and a couple of buffed Vlish is no pushover. Not just because of the creations but because of the fighting (Guardian) or Magic (Shaper, Agent) skills the Shaper has ON TOP of being able to make an army. 

 

Some darklords are, by design, weak. They survive because thanks to their powers they can have others doing their dirty war. Other darklords are mid-of-the-pack. Powerful enough to hold their own, but not extremely powerful. And some are O_O powerful as you imagine. 

Remember that canonically, most domains of Ravenloft are small or not very populated. A 6th level werewolf cleric with a power to control his cursed progeny is a big deal. And surrounded by several of his werewolf bodies, he's tough. But not enough to challenge a 9th party without strategic planning. There is also another darklord that is not much stronger than the average innkeeper... but he is VERY smart, and he can mind-control people with his voice. A decent spell from a 5th level character would kill him in one strike BUT he survives by NOT being the one a 5th level character would target with said spell. He acts from the shadows. Etc. 

 

Thinking of it, some darklords would simply want that power for themselves. Said mind-control guy would probably enthrall the Shaper turning her to his pawn. Etc. 

Edited March 26 by alhoon

[ultra112]

he can try but it will be difficult since the shapers have often sharpen their minds to resist this sort of effect.

[ultra112]

On 3/25/2024 at 11:51 PM, ultra112 said:

Come to think of it I wonder how will the gods in the DnD world would react to the presence of a shaper in their world?

Also any thoughts on this @alhoon?

[alhoon]

27 minutes ago, ultra112 said:

Also any thoughts on this @alhoon?

 

Depends on the campaign and the god, I would guess. Considering there are gods that encourage clearly blasphemous practices (necromancy etc) I wouldn't expect much blowback from the divine over Shaping.

How the clergy would react, would be a much more interesting question, I think.  

[ultra112]

Oh definitely, cause it would most likely challenges their world view, knowing that the gods are not the only ones to be able to create life.

[ultra112]

btw are there any other setting where you played as a shaper @alhoon?

[alhoon]

2 hours ago, ultra112 said:

btw are there any other setting where you played as a shaper @alhoon?

 

Not a Shaper that is indeed a Shaper. Settings where there were mages similar to the Shapers, yes. 

[ultra112]

Ah ok then 

[ultra112]

Come to think of it I came across a crossover quest sometime ago, the guy who made this quest had a Shaper being thrown into the Game of thrones world and it's a rather interesting one; which contains intriguing views coming from the shaper's pov, link's down below if anyone is interested.

https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/a-shaper-of-ice-and-fire-geneforge-got-crossover.6028/reader/

Edited March 27 by ultra112