Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Well, I'm asking because I've been hoping to port (or have ported, and am hoping to fix it up and make it playable) the Blades of Exile scenario, "Of Good and Evil" by Alcritas to Blades of Avernum. I just started tweaking with the ported version, and while it's nowhere near finished, I am actually very optimistic that this could work, even if some minor parts may have to be cut. Yes, it's a scenario with lots of complicated noding, but things are going better than expected so far. (I have the password to OG&E as Alcritas made them public years ago, so I can look into the scenario to see what's supposed to happen if there is any confusion). The reason I've wanted to take on this project is (besides a personal challenge and wanting to say I contributed something to BoA) because I have been wanting to bring one of BoE's top scenarios to the Blades of Avernum engine. Alcritas was regarded as one of the best designers in the history of Blades of Exile, and although BoE is now free and open-source, there are still people who prefer BoA, and I would like to give those players a taste of one of BoE's best designers and bring at least one great BoE classic to BoA. The question is, though, how many still play BoA today? The game is almost nine years old now. When BoE was at this age, it was spitting out its last scenarios and was dying out. I'm seeing something similar happening to BoA, with many of its more well-known designers gone and fewer scenarios being released. At this point, would anyone really care about a new scenario for BoA? I will say, even if I do finish this project, it will likely be my final contribution to the Blades games and the Spiderweb community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 For what it's worth, I would be interested to see the result. It's kind of sad, but Blades is dead. Everyone is gone and there aren't any youngins to take up the mantle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Xaiya Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Sadly, I can't work up the motivation to work on anything. I would be interesting in playing this, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Artila Magic Master Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I am interested in all new scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I'll play new scenarios, and I still play with the editor, but I haven't finished anything for far too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan tridash Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I'd certainly play it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Tyranicus Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I'll play it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 Thanks everyone. While I agree with Enraged Slith that the Blades communities are pretty much dead as there seem to be next to no scenarios coming out now for either engine, I'm still feeling that there may yet be an audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I still bring my copy of BoX out of mothballs every so often. If you write it, I'll give it a whirl, so your effort won't be wasted. Heck, I should probably even play the original; I downloaded it a while back along with several others, but have yet to play it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I can help with the porting itself, I have done it before. Consequently I know all about pitfalls created by custom items and monsters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 Thank you for the offer. If there's anything I can think of I need help with, you'll be the first to know. EDIT: I don't seem to have access to the monster and items graphics databases, they are UNIX files.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I'm still around, and always up for a new scenario. What databases do you mean? I'm pretty clueless about BoE stuff, but I'm happy to try to convert file formats or something if I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 The databases I'm referring to are the default BoA graphics. I can't seem to access which numbers pertain to which graphics -- I found a temporary solution by cross-referencing the "Default Creatures/Items" in Erik Westra's Cookbook and looking at the numbers in the Default Creature/Item Scripts. I would like an easier way of doing this, and I can't get into the graphics files provided with the game (I'm on OS X). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish xensaya Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I still play Blades of Avernum, sometimes it's just fun to go back and see the old stuff. Relive what you have forgotten and try new things. Sometimes we believe that were over a game, but years later we can look back on it and get the urge to play that game again. (I still think about pacman sometimes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan tridash Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Have you tried Niemand's Graphics Adjuster BainIhrno? That should allow you to open up the default graphics files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 As for porting, if you don't like the way BoE objects (items, creatures and terrain types) are translated to BoA equivalents you can customize the translations. You only need to find where the translation arrays are found in your editor. Source code for your editor will tell you what the arrays look like, then you can find them in a hex editor. Alternately, you may be able to compile the editor yourself, in which case you can make a special version for Of Good and Evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 i feel like compiling a custom editor for the porting of one scenario is a bit, uh, overkill. it'd be nice for editors to just have that in an xml file or something. of course, "turn this tile into this tile" really isn't feasible for going from boe to boa really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Porting is not always so easy but I liked it. I did River and Leaf then I had a go at Wormwood (Shadow Stranger). One approach to the tiles is to use flat terrain, like Geneforge and Blades of Exile. That way you can use some of the BoA ports of Geneforge graphics. I attempted this with versions of Wormwood and River and Leaf. XML files would be the way to go, maybe Tridash can incorporate them into the next version of his Editor. You could also customize the names given to the outdoor/town scripts, currently the script names are messy offcuts of the outdoor/town names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I'd be happy to beta test when you have something ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Cpt. Charles Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I'm still hanging on to BoA, writing bits of scenarios I'd like to make, from time to time. I would play this if you finished it. I haven't played much of BoE, but I've heard that Alcritas made the best scenarios. Might even motivate me to do something with the scraps I've got for BoA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I think that I stopped playing Blades when I realized that most beginning scenarios were too ridiculously hard to make it past level 5. Most of the scenarios that were made I could play, but usually would never be able to make it to the finish. The only real scenarios I completed was a few of them made by jeff. I doubt this will be remade, but if it was, I'd be interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Number of objects altered: Monsters: 117 Terrain: 41 Items: 81 Number not altered at all: Monsters: 139 Terrain: 215 Items: 319 I have uploaded a new version of EXS Decrypts, for each altered object it shows data from Of Good and Evil compared with default data from Bladbase. http://www.freewebs....EXSDecrypts.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I have done a port, the scenario is still not playable but it is instructive. You can't enter towns from the outdoors until the outdoor town entrance terrain is made passable, not obstructed. http://www.freewebs.com/ishadnha/GoodEvil.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted January 6, 2013 Author Share Posted January 6, 2013 I have actually done the port myself. So far I've adjusted town/outdoors to utilize heights, fixing up dialogue, and creating custom items/creatures. Thanks for your help. Also thanks to Sylae for a scenario data dump. Of course, this project will be easier once a BoE scenario editor for 10.8.2 is coded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Presumably you have seen this topic, Bain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Tyranicus Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Presumably you have seen this topic, Bain?The game itself has been ported. The editor has not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 The game itself has been ported. The editor has not. I have ascended to stupid level 2. Much apologies for not reading the OP in it's entirety Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 In porting do you use the stock BoA graphics or you do use the BoA adaptations of the BoE graphics? Blazing Blades has done a lot of adapting here but a few remain to be done. The latter are more colorful than the stock Windows BoA graphics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 I haven't actually figured out how to do custom graphics in BoA, I'm going to wait until more progress on the actual scenario is made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 It's not hard; similar to BoE you make a resource file with the images in it and set various definitions to refer to particular parts of the images. The main difference is that the graphics are split up into groups in multiple images rather than all put together into a single big image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 You also need artistic ability, like Luz at Blazing Blades and unlike me. If we knew how she did the conversions we could convert BoE images at will. Word of Recall can't be finally replicated in the Blades of Avernum world. My solution here is that a spell takes you to a town, the proforma town 0, when you attempt to enter the town you are sent back to the starting town. I wrote an article at The Lyceum about this, http://thelyceum.yuku.com/topic/1905/Word-of-Recall-spell-v10#.UOwE3qzCo0k But I can't find any spare town entrances. One slot seems spare but it is in the upper right corner of the final outdoor zone. For some reason it was not ported to the BoA world!? What you could do is have a special ability teleport the party next to a town, party enters the town and then finds a placed event that leads them home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk nikki. Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 You also need artistic ability, like Luz at Blazing Blades and unlike me. If we knew how she did the conversions we could convert BoE images at will. We do know how she did them. She painted them by hand, because Luz is awesomely talented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fledgling Fyora M Atherton Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 I started playing Blades of Avernum within the last 2 or 3 years. Just thought I'd mention it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Official (Windows) 2D Spiderweb Editor had a few problems with porting and really needed a few improvements: 1. Eliminating the mix – up of x,y coordinates in town special encounters. 2. Enabling the translations of Exile items, monsters and terrain to be customized. 3. Having proper translation of Exile sounds and stats. 4. Using a translation table for change, swap and transform – terrain translations. 5. Reworking the creation of shops using the existing table. 6. A routine to detect “tweaking” of existing objects. 7. If a state in the town script is called when a creature dies, this information is apparently never ported. 8. Likewise, If there is a flag set when a creature dies this information is never ported. 9. Porting the Secret Passage node is a hassle. I don't know about the Mac version. This was presumably the same code used for porting in Isaac's 3D editor, but then the editor always crashed before porting happened... 1 was purely a Windows problem? It has been fixed. 2 can be done easily by hex editing. 3 this will need to be done manually, not all sounds can be translated properly. 4 this has been fixed in my version so it does not use BoE terrain type numbers. 5,6 need to be done manually 7,8 have been fixed 9 is tough even now. The call that handles the change of terrain/floor blocking has all sorts of fine print... Outdoors you may be able to use the out movement function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Seasons of Destiny Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 For what it's worth, I still play BoA, and I still try to tangle with the editor at times to make another scenario, but seeing more scenarios, even a ported one from what I assume to be a great BoE scenario, help motivate me to try to crank one out. There are still a few youngins out there to warm up that mantle. Oh yes, and I hope Of Good and Evil turns out well after the port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 I'm pleased to say that I'm nearing completion of the first stage. That means I still have a ways to go, but this is the most progress I've made on any work relating to Blades of Avernum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Seasons of Destiny Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I hope the completion of this port encourages others to start up the creation of scenarios again. Tridon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish Tridon Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I bought BoA through the package at GOG just a few days ago, so I'm going to play through scenarios in the future for sure. =) Though there seems to be less traffic and engagement here than earlier, there is definitely life here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Dark Sniper Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I am still in this community. And as long as i am in this community. I will hate not to play any new scenarios or play with the editor. By the way, my first scenario is STILL not finished Tridon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt BMA Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Hey Zero Smasher, I'm a Malayali. I play a lot less games right now, but when I do, BoA takes a reasonable portion of my playing time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Dark Sniper Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 What do you mean by Malayali? Are you from Malaysia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt BMA Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Hehe no, I'm just down south. Kerala-residents are known as Malayalis (language : Malayalam). (see PM) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 At some point I will be checking the contents of "void port_a_special_node(old_blades_special_node_type *node,short node_num,FILE *file_id,short node_type)" versus the contents of the node editing screens as displayed by the Scenario Editor. Translating the nodes is still something of an art form, so if Bain Ihrno runs into trouble getting his scenario to work properly, the first port of call should be the nodes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share Posted March 4, 2013 For anyone interested -- I'm almost finished updating the town, outdoor, and dialogue scripts, and have a little more terrain work/height adjustments to do. This means that I'm getting close to a fully playable prototype. However, due to my limited knowledge of the BoA combat system and the potentiality for missed errors in such a large scenario, alpha-testing is going to take some time. In addition to picking up bugs, I may be spending quite a bit of time readjusting monsters/stats so that the combat, items, and spells are balanced. In other words, I'm getting close to the point where I can alpha test it, but it's still going to be some time before I can call for beta testers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Getting power levels right for items, spells and monsters: latest Windows version has the ability to print out data arrays for these objects so you can compare them with their BoE counterparts. Data arrays for BoE are listed in the exs file and can be easily obtained by something like DataWorkshop-1.1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Sounds cool. I'm using a Mac, though, so I'm not sure how I could get the data arrays, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Conventional Windows 3D code is found at: http://svn.hallsofchaos.net/3D_BoA_Editor_Win/trunk (This is the pre-multiwindows code.) You want Bl A Fileio.cpp, from line 1,218 through line 1,359. The code itself is pretty basic, it just prints out the arrays for BoA. It may or may not need adaption to a Mac format. (If you are not part of SVN, copy and paste the content of the file into a text editor and you will see where line 1,218 is.) BoE arrays I can just upload at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) Stop press: All BoE data arrays and the source code for the BoA data arrays is found at: http://www.freewebs....EDataArrays.zip BoA arrays will change as the BoA scenario is worked upon, they are not constant. You will need to add this to Global.h: void floor_type_data_dump(); void terrain_type_data_dump(); void creature_type_data_dump(); void item_data_dump(); Then you will need to alter the enabling/dimming of menu items so that the four data functions are only enabled when a scenario is loaded. I am on Windows, if you need help with a new version of the Mac Editor, Niemand should be able to help. Note: the data array printouts are meant to be used in a spreadsheet, that is why the columns are separated by tabs. You may of course need to alter the code I supplied, I have not read the Mac version recently. Edited March 18, 2013 by Ishad Nha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall BainIhrno Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Unfortunately, those codes don't seem to be giving me enough information. Anyway, good news! I'm almost ready to start alpha-testing the port, after a few more adjustments are made. Once I can get something that resembles balanced combat and treasure, I should be ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 "Unfortunately, those codes don't seem to be giving me enough information." Anything else you need? You might want to delete irrelevant columns or hide them, some of the columns are not that relevant like the Reserved# columns in the terrain array. Arrays might be generally useful in scenario design, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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