Articulate Vlish Denizen of Terrestia Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 So I've just killed Redbeard after a long fight, and that got me wondering.. Is the fight so hard because he is meant to be invincible, and he will reappear as the Keeper in the next Avadon, or what? And it said that many new hands joined at the end, is that when Avadon 2 starts, or many years after? Just my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 He's not meant to be invincible as such, but it was expected that the vast majority of players would either choose not to kill him or be unable to. The smart money's on him returning as Keeper in Avadon 2, but no details about Avadon 2's planned plot have been released yet, so any answers will just be speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk JamesMighty Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Perhaps Jeff will make a dialog where Redbeard gets assassinated at the beginning and Avadon must choose a new Keeper. Jeff is always full of surprises Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 We have killed Solberg once and several dragons too and also we have killed Gladwell few times in Avernums but still they were allive at later games so high chances that Redbeard is Keeper still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Artila Galactic Maiden Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I think it'd be interesting if, in Avadon 2, there's a dialouge that states that Redbeard was killed by a powerful group of Hands (referring to, you know, the player and their allies). Though it does seem likely that he'll be around in the sequel, because having him die in canon at the player's hands would probably create storyline issues. I'm pretty curious as to what roles the allies will have, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Arch-Mage Solberg Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Originally Posted By: Earth Empires We have killed Solberg once... You only thought that you killed me...it was really a hologram! Post #676 Actaeon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 No, that's Erika's trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 It has to be Redbeard, even if he isnt keeper, he will be an integral part of the story. He's the coolest character in the game and I cant picture the series without him. Well...if jeff makes a second series later on, then maybe redbeard will be gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk JamesMighty Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I wonder what avadon 2 will be like without heart Miranda. Maybe Jeff will just have Hand Callan take her place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 One of the funny things about Avadon is that while certain things about it I dont like as much as geneforge, the story is amazingly good making me want to play it again. The only series ive played that had a story on par in my opinion was probably baldurs gate 1 and 2 and the first 2 geneforge games. Edit-Another thing that I am wondering about the next game is whether dexterity will be as much of a powerhouse to invest in as Avadon 1 was. I think dexterity could be made a little less useful that way endurance can be made more useful, like in the new Avernum Remake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk JamesMighty Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Originally Posted By: Death Knight Another thing that I am wondering about the next game is whether dexterity will be as much of a powerhouse to invest in as Avadon 1 was. I think dexterity could be made a little less useful that way endurance can be made more useful, like in the new Avernum Remake. I also believe the Dex. was much to valuable in this game. Perhaps make all of the shaman's/sorceress spells run on Int. instead of half and half, and make it more useful to have Str. and End. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Well what really would be awesome, but i doubt it will happen, is making melee much more feasible in fights in the game. As it stands now, melee is great but hard to setup for all the major bosses. When i played through and beat the game the 1st time, i made all my characters specialize in ranged combat and very rarely used melee as ranged was easier to use. I had 2 bowman blademasters, and a shaman for ranged/healing support. Having characters that specialize in ranged combat is a deadly asset in avadon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk JamesMighty Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Yeah I want melee but not so much like in Avernums that Melee overpowers archery. I would also like a ranger class because I love meh rangers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Thats a pretty cool idea. Im playing a shaman right now for my 2nd playthrough that is almost like a ranger. Only a javelin rather than a bow. Lots of healing, dex and wolves to back me up. What i like about the shaman is that you can play her as a caster/summoner, or play her as a summoner/marksman which is cool too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Originally Posted By: Arch-Mage Solberg You only thought that you killed me...it was really a hologram! Post #676 blood on my fighters swords say it was human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk JamesMighty Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Originally Posted By: Earth Empires Originally Posted By: Arch-Mage Solberg You only thought that you killed me...it was really a hologram! Post #676 blood on my fighters swords say it was human. Thats part of the trick. You can only kill Solberg with magic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Arch-Mage Solberg Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Originally Posted By: Earth Empires Originally Posted By: Arch-Mage Solberg You only thought that you killed me...it was really a hologram! Post #676 blood on my fighters swords say it was human. What you think is blood is really crimson colored ectoplasm! Originally Posted By: JamesMighty Originally Posted By: Earth Empires blood on my fighters swords say it was human. Thats part of the trick. You can only kill Solberg with magic! Do I go around giving away your trade secrets? NO! So I would appreciate it if you would stop telling people how to kill me. You're such a Gladwell! Post #677 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish Denizen of Terrestia Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Hmm.. if chances are Redbeard -is- the keeper in the sequel.. then what might happen to Sevilin, Shima, Jenell and Nathalie? I loved them so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I would say none will die, sevelin and/or natalie might get a higher position. Shima will mysteriously disappear and i have no idea what will happen to jenell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk JamesMighty Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Originally Posted By: Arch-Mage Solberg Originally Posted By: JamesMighty Originally Posted By: Earth Empires blood on my fighters swords say it was human. Thats part of the trick. You can only kill Solberg with magic! Do I go around giving away your trade secrets? NO! So I would appreciate it if you would stop telling people how to kill me. You're such a Gladwell! Post #677 Is that a bad thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk JamesMighty Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Originally Posted By: Death Knight I would say none will die, sevelin and/or natalie might get a higher position. Shima will mysteriously disappear and i have no idea what will happen to jenell. Jenell will probably take over the gardens and kill anyone who comes inside because she misses home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I guess our group hands have been moved to working on some other area (except Shima who might have returned to his homeland and Jenell who might have went with her friends to somewhere). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I dont think we'll have to worry about guessing as once august comes around, It will be in Beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 that depends how much is revealed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Goldengirl Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 The only way I could see Redbeard not being the Keeper in Avadon 2 - which I'm almost certain he will be - is if it is one of the party members from Avadon. Not the PC, obviously - Jeff never seems to blatantly put the PC into roles in future games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Gerry Quinn Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 It depends where Jeff is going with the story, but here's a possible scenario for Avadon 2: It's five years after the events of Avadon, Redbeard is dead and his assassin (whoever it was) did not last long, no character from Avadon is in the story, the Empire waxes stronger but is not yet capable of attacking the Pact.. but the Pact is disintegrating, and rebels make much of the brutality of rule by Avadon. You're a conservative in a land of progressives, standing for the Pact because you believe the alternatives are worse, and knowing that those who oppose it are ultimately dupes of forces who wish to impose a far more brutal rule... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I see Redbeard returning because of his resemblance to Jeff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 that dragon what her name was will be most likely in Avadon 2 (and 3 prolly too). another possibility is Redbeard's son which resembles his father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Rent-an-Ihrno Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Jeff has a really good grasp of dramaturgy, and usually writes his plots the way most people are used to and find exciting and aesthetical. That's why I think Redbeard will either be dead before Avadon 2, or right at the end of the series (trilogy?). It's standard storytelling. (It's not impossible Redbeard's overthrowal could be the center point instead of plot point 1 or 2, but I believe he is too important for that.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mosquito---Slayer Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Originally Posted By: Earth Empires another possibility is Redbeard's son which resembles his father. Don't you have to kill the original keeper to become one yourself?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Patricide, keeping it in the family. There isn't any mention of Redbeard having a family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I think Jeff likes Redbeard too much to get rid of him just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Originally Posted By: Mosquito---Slayer Don't you have to kill the original keeper to become one yourself?? yes and so? it was bit common that king/queen/emperor/empress got killed cause heir wanted to be on throne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Originally Posted By: Mosquito---Slayer Don't you have to kill the original keeper to become one yourself?? Which, by the way, is an incredibly stupid way to run an organization. Unless that organization is an Assassins' Guild. And even then, you're only going to get the best and most paranoid killer in charge, who is unlikely to also be the best administrator. Just sayin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt BMA Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Jerakeen is right. It didn't really strike me as stupid (only 'natural') until now. Still, I don't suppose Avadon has any choice, if some fellow suddenly kills the old Keeper and declares himself to be the new one. Besides ganging up on the little upstart, defeating him, and then electing a new Keeper by popular vote. And I'm placing my money on Redbeard returning as Keeper. Sure, he'll be on a machine, unable to move his hands and legs even to feed himself and will probably be hardly able to talk without a gurgling sound...but it'll still be Redbeard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 In fact, it's not that simple. Originally Posted By: codex The leader of Avadon is its Keeper. Chosen by Hanvar's Council, he or she serves for life. How long that life actually is can be a matter of some unpredictability. The first Keeper of Avadon was Telera, who ascended to its throne when the fortress itself was completed in Cycle 6240. She served for five tumultuous years, rooting out and destroying many who could not accept the treaty that ended the Black Age. Of course, in this process, she attracted many enemies. One of them finally got poison in her wine in 6245. Avadon was leaderless for two years, while the Council debated whether it was still necessary. In the end, they answered in the affirmative. They selected Herom of the Kva to be Keeper. He rooted out the foes of the Pact for eight years before he started showing an undue interest in the members of Hanvar's Council itself. He disappeared in 6257 and no trace of him was never found. The next four Keepers proved unable to master the power of Avadon. Confused and without allies, they fell to ambitious underlings, who tended to become Keeper and die not long after. Disturbed by all of this chaos, in 6265, the council chose Redbeard to be Keeper. He seemed, at first, to be affable and easily controlled. As long as he did all the Council required, he would be protected. Redbeard turned out, however, to be far more cunning than expected. Almost fifty years later, he still holds his post. Nowhere in here is it stated that assassinating your predecessor is a legitimate way to gain the top spot (those few who did it tended to die quickly). And yet that is so strongly implied elsewhere that everyone accepts it without question. In fact, it's essential to the non-loyalist ending. It may be that over time (since the codex was written), as the council has weakened, attitudes have shifted within Avadon. Or maybe it was always corrupt, but then why listen to the council at all? You'd think, since he himself was appointed by the council, it would be in Redbeard's interest to squelch the idea that assassination of anyone (let alone the Keeper!) was anything but a crime punishable by death. Because clearly it's not just a matter of declaring yourself Keeper; if the organization rejects your authority, you will fail. So it's pretty perverse that he allowed that idea to fester for 50 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mosquito---Slayer Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Originally Posted By: Earth Empires yes and so? it was bit common that king/queen/emperor/empress got killed cause heir wanted to be on throne. Yeah it's common in general but it will be a first( correct me if i m wrong) for spiderweb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 only Avernums/Exiles has had descendants ruling kingdom and Avadon "just" started so we don't know it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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