Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Wait... what? The percentage of women in computer science has DROPPED, precipitously, in the last 20 years? Huh. I wonder what happened? SoT: Really? I've never heard of anyone going to med school without a BS or BA. Anyway, it would be interesting to see what the numbers are like at the graduate level, too. Looking at BA/BS degrees gives you a view of what people are willing to do more casually, since the connection between a bachelor's degree and a career is much, much vaguer. I'm sure the numbers for biology are very different since all the pre-meds have been sorted out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Aran Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S Wait... what? The percentage of women in computer science has DROPPED, precipitously, in the last 20 years? Huh. I wonder what happened? Exactly. WTH? The only other major that has dropped is Mathematics, and that negligibly. (Of course, there is the usual caveat when comparing percentages - a drop in proportion can easily be coupled with an overall increase, particularly in a growing discipline. Still, why is that growth so disproportionate?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Maybe that's only in Canada, or maybe only 20 years ago; when I was an undergrad, people would often just transfer to med school after two years. Even now, though, if you google 'med school admission requirements' you get to pages from the Association of American Medical Colleges that list a few courses you can do in two years, and the MCAT, but don't mention an undergrad degree. They do say that precise requirements vary by school. Harvard seems to demand a Bachelor's degree from somewhere, but BU explicitly says that it admits people without a degree in exceptional cases. I checked my own alma mater's med school requirements, and it now requires three previous years of university study instead of two, but still doesn't demand a degree. Some people always did do a full degree first, since of course you always can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Computer science maybe due to changes in the way courses are taught. 20 years ago there was still and emphasis on individual programmers learning to code and now it is more team efforts because the larger companies require cogs to write sections of code for a huge program. I blame Microsoft that made writing software require larger groups of programmers to write apps for Windows. Aran is right that it may just be due to more men going into programming than women and that skews the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Micawber Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Lilith it wouldn't be called the european onion if it didn't make people cry An entire continent is at present collectively committing economic suicide; yet somehow I have been giggling over this one-liner for several hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Aran is also right in saying still, why is the growth so disproportionate? The numbers are not "skewed" by more men going into programming, that's part of the numbers. In other disciplines, there are similar or greater numbers of women going into things, but not in CS. Why? I don't see any reason that an emphasis on team programming would deter more women than men. I also think organizing classes that way is a very recent development, in the last 5 years or so, so it shouldn't be a factor in the linked graph, which goes up to 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Looking at the graph, the big shift happened with the rise of the personal computer, and the dot-com boom. Before that, the focus was more on the science of computing; thus, you see the 1986 rate is closer to mathematics than it is to engineering. Perhaps the demographics shift is due to the dream of 'hitting it big' with some start-up, whereas before the boom employment was a bit more 'traditional'. Speaking anecdotally, startups tend to be populated entirely by males. Obviously this is pure speculation on my part -- for some strange reason, I lack any anecdotal evidence before 1987. :-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Kelandon Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity You don't necessarily need a full degree to get into med school. Two years of pre-med can be enough. In principle, this is possible, but in practice, I don't think it happens really ever. Each year, slightly over a quarter of people who take the MCAT (and therefore are serious about applying to medical school) actually get in. It's so competitive that I have to think that such circumstances are basically nonexistent. I've occasionally wondered if the way that we teach physics might itself deter women more than men. The examples that we use are awfully violent. People trapped on an icy lake, people shooting monkeys, cars crashing into each other, people hanging off the edge of cliffs and falling... it's pretty hazardous to be in a physics problem. I wonder if the wanton violence might be more annoying to women than to men. If anything, I imagine it's a small effect, but this is probably a problem with more than one cause (lack of role models and peers, contrary social pressures, lots of other things). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity Maybe that's only in Canada, or maybe only 20 years ago; when I was an undergrad, people would often just transfer to med school after two years. Even now, though, if you google 'med school admission requirements' you get to pages from the Association of American Medical Colleges that list a few courses you can do in two years, and the MCAT, but don't mention an undergrad degree. They do say that precise requirements vary by school. Harvard seems to demand a Bachelor's degree from somewhere, but BU explicitly says that it admits people without a degree in exceptional cases. I checked my own alma mater's med school requirements, and it now requires three previous years of university study instead of two, but still doesn't demand a degree. I can't speak to other countries, but in the US the main barrier to medical school is the vast mismatch between number of applicants and number of slots. Many schools might be willing to admit someone without a degree in an exceptional case, but that really does mean exceptional; many people won't get in even with a four year degree and a decent post-bac. —Alorael, who just learned today that an acquaintance with a degree from a prestigious university, several papers including one first-author in a solid journal, and some medical volunteering has gotten into medical school. It was his third try. And yet America has a shortage of doctors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast VCH Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 My friend (Canadian) went to med-school in the Caribbean (St. Georges) because the competition from Asians for spots in Canadian medical school was too great-as well as, I suppose, from overachieving Canadians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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