Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I'm thinking and I'm thinking, and it's pretty tough to top Alorael's list. My top five share four entries with Alorael's suggestions. Julius Caesar, Louis Pasteur, and Norman Borlaug are all on the list for the reasons already stated. I'm going with Karl Marx over Adam Smith. Smith was mostly just describing the system as it already was -- not saying he didn't have an impact, he did, but Marx's impact was far, far larger. In capitalist states after the Industrial Revolution, Marx's ideals still had a large impact, with greater workers' rights and the rise of unions. His works also inspired the communist revolutions of the 20th century. While he isn't responsible for them, some of the greatest tragedies of the 20th century (the Great Leap Forward and the Holodomor) wouldn't have happened if not for him. Final entry is Jesus Christ. Perhaps going to raise controversy, but consider how much the course of Western civilization has been affected by a scant three years of ministry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Necris Omega Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Originally Posted By: Reality Clamp —Alorael, who can't pick a top list. "History" is too broad. In science? In politics? In philosophy? How about in record sales? Good point. Political leaders, then, to stick to the original, "presidents" vibe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 1) Edward Teller for his pioneering work on the atomic bomb. 2) Dr. Robert Gatling for his invention that helped the Union Army during the Civil War. 3) Archimedes for his heat ray used to destroy Roman ships. 4) Samuel Colt for the Colt revolver to help equalize things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 John Locke, Thomas Jefferson, Baruch Spinoza, Suleiman the Magnificent, and Adam Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish Petoffen Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dantius 1. I am firmly of the opinion that Nixon did more to end the Cold War than any other president at the time. Detente, China, drawing down Vietnam, etc. It's sad you don't know the history of Nixon - how to help himself in the 1968 election, he secretly conspired with the South Vietnamese government to sabotage the peace talks LBJ was having, which was treasonous. JFK was the real and only president to fight the cold war. Right now, go watch his speech at American University. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Articulate Vlish Petoffen Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Rather than put up a list right now, I'll note that some presidents have very mixed reviews - for example, Teddy Roosevelt and Eisenhower have a lot to praise domestically, while they were pretty monstrous on foreign policy, such as letting the Dulles brothers greatly worsen the cold war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 (Oh, I was going to mention Johannes Gutenberg last night, but I forgot. But he would definitely belong on a top ten list.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Originally Posted By: Cairo Jim Where do you think Lenin and Mao got their ideals to support what they were doing in the first place? Marx, but I think that Lenin's, Mao's, and Stalin's brands of totalitarian communism made much more of an impact on the world, perceived communism, and perceived economics. The Soviet Union and China overshadowed Marx. I thought about Jesus Christ, but I'm not actually sure where to divide his influence and that of his followers. Christianity is one of the world's most powerful social and political forces, but I don't think it can be placed on a signal doorstep the way some other things can. Mohammed is a much more solid religious figure, and I'm not sure he's far behind: Islamic incursion shaped quite a bit of Europe, Africa, and Asia, and Muslim extremism shapes geopolitics heavily today. Nixon brought about a turning point in the Cold War by visiting China and really opening Chinese-American diplomacy and then building a détente with the Soviet Union that produced the SALT I and ABM treaties. Without his work, the Cold War might have been far worse, and it might well have been more protracted. —Alorael, who left off Gutenberg because he decided any single invention was too little. Then he realized that Louis Pasteur wasn't included for much more. Someone else could have made either man's advancements, but no one else did. So yes, Gutenberg changed the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Necris Omega Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I shudder to think what Marx would say about what was done in the name of his philosophies... In all honesty, I think his works in the hands of those who would pervert them has done far more harm than good. Gutenberg... eh, I'd say by his one invention has had more of an impact on history than the vast majority of inventors and just people in general. Thomas Edison may have invented (took credit for) more than Gutenberg did, for instance, but I'd still rank Gutenberg much higher. Light bulbs and audio recording are great and all, but you just really can't beat making literacy "normal". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Actually, while the invention of the lightbulb is big, he didn't quite invent them. He was much more of a refiner and developer than inventor, and I think his biggest invention was making an industry out of R&D, He invented inventing for commercial purposes. And as inventions go, I think the power station is a big one, although again, the idea wasn't really unique to Edison. We don't owe power grids to him, but he did make one of the first electrical distribution systems. —Alorael, who still isn't sure about Gutenberg. The printing press allowed large-scale publishing, but it didn't reduce the cost of paper or really spread literacy. It was a step, but it took mass production of books to provide enough to read. The jury is still out on whether reading mass-produced Bibles spread enough literacy or whether that required top-down push for education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dintiradan Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Yeah, Gutenberg was the great enabler. By itself, movable type wasn't that huge of an invention. But by lowering the cost of disseminating knowledge, it paved the way for other "bigger" inventions. Ideas too -- the Great Reformation probably would not have spread as quickly if Gutenberg had come any later. I guess there's another reason why Julius Caesar (and his immediate successor, Augustus) belongs on the list: they are also enablers. Aside from their direct impact, things like the Pax Romana, the road network, and the attitude of tolerance (in the early years, at least) allowed ideas to quickly spread throughout the Empire. I thought about how to get the Internet on the list somehow, as it's sort of the second printing press (as well as having a major impact on commerce). But there's no one person to point to; Sir Tim Berners-Lee, perhaps? But with a bit more thought, I've decided: it's Marx, once again. No Marx means no communist revolutions, which means no USSR, which means no Cold War, which means no Mutually Assured Destruction, which means no need for a decentralized communication network, which means no ARPANET, which means no Internet, which means no World Wide Web. (I remember doing similar thought experiments in Grade 12 Social Studies. It seems all recent events in European history can be traced back to the French Revolution.) EDIT: Forgot the dash. At least I remembered the 'Sir'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Necris Omega Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Eh, while you can't attribute the spread of literacy entirely to Gutenberg, without it you would never have had the chance of it happening at all. As with any major revolution in global cultures, there'll always be a myriad of causes that fall into line to make it happen. As to Edison, well... Yeah. Like I said in parenthesis, he's more the brand name who, very often maliciously, took credit for the labors of other people rather than the brains behind any given invention. Still, his face is attributed to a wide range of inventions, even if inaccurately. With scope of inventions... I'd almost pitch Leonardo da Vinci, except so much of his work was so revolutionary that it was consigned to the bin of theory. Sure, he's one of the most influential artists in history, but I'm not sure you could claim that to have the same level of impact as a Gutenberg or even a Martin Luther. Heck, a lot of his "artistic developments" in terms of painting media were just plain disastrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dintiradan But with a bit more thought, I've decided: it's Marx, once again. No Marx means no communist revolutions, which means no USSR, which means no Cold War, which means no Mutually Assured Destruction, which means no need for a decentralized communication network, which means no ARPANET, which means no Internet, which means no World Wide Web. Hmm...new historical theory: there are no more than six degrees of separation between Karl Marx and anything that's happened since his lifetime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Khoth Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Originally Posted By: Triumph Hmm...new historical theory: there are no more than six degrees of separation between Karl Marx and anything that's happened since his lifetime? No Marx -> no Internet -> no time-travel -> Marx's parents never met -> no Marx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Aran Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Originally Posted By: Khoth Originally Posted By: Triumph Hmm...new historical theory: there are no more than six degrees of separation between Karl Marx and anything that's happened since his lifetime? No Marx -> no Internet -> no time-travel -> Marx's parents never met -> no Marx. I like how you think. Do you have a newsletter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Harehunter Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Quote: No Marx -> no Internet -> no time-travel -> Marx's parents never met -> no Marx. x Marx the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Necris Omega Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Originally Posted By: Harehunter Quote: No Marx -> no Internet -> no time-travel -> Marx's parents never met -> no Marx. x Marx the spot. On your Marx, get set, go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Originally Posted By: Necris Omega Originally Posted By: Harehunter Quote: No Marx -> no Internet -> no time-travel -> Marx's parents never met -> no Marx. x Marx the spot. On your Marx, get set, go? I'm giving you failing Marx for those puns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast keira Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Originally Posted By: Dantius Originally Posted By: Necris Omega Originally Posted By: Harehunter Quote: No Marx -> no Internet -> no time-travel -> Marx's parents never met -> no Marx. x Marx the spot. On your Marx, get set, go? I'm giving you failing Marx for those puns. I wouldn't be so punny around Alorael, he is a very good Marxman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall The Ratt Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Quote: Quote: Originally Posted By: Sylae Originally Posted By: Dantius Originally Posted By: Necris Omega No Marx -> no Internet -> no time-travel -> Marx's parents never met -> no Marx. x Marx the spot. On your Marx, get set, go? I'm giving you failing Marx for those puns. I wouldn't be so punny around Alorael, he is a very good Marxman Yeah, I hear sniper rifles leave pretty big Marx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 Quote pyramids AND bad puns? Consign it then to the flames: For it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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