Ineffable Wingbolt Necris Omega Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 With the upcoming remakes of Avernum, I've been marching through the series once more in a grand bid to see the whole thing before the... well if you count the original Exile graphics upgrade a revamp, the 4th time this series has been redone. I plowed trough the original series like an atomic tank with rocket boosters piloted by Rambo, and, as always, loved it. I had the kind of great time that makes this next incarnation of Avernum sound as appealing as a bathtub full of lemon meringue pie. I'm really, really looking forward to this. Then I thought, "hey, let's keep going! Avernum IV wasn't that bad after all!" ... I kinda need some support on that theory to keep me from just skipping ahead to Avernum V, or going back to the Geneforge series. So let's hear it - what makes A4 a good game? What can I look forward to that's enough motivation to keep slogging through these Chitrach infested tunnels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 You no longer need the wait command to have your mage go last to keep casting haste during fights with demons. I can't think of another reason to play Avernum 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Necris Omega Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 That... that's it? I know it's only the first reply but... damn that's depressing. I could write a small book on what I think is wrong with A4, but.. surely someone has more positive input? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 It fixed the firebolt & fireball mistake from Avernum by making them two different spells. It gave you a lot more inventory slots, but not enough strength to carry them all. Mages received A lock picking bonus via the unlock spell making them super pickers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Avernum 4 suffers from being a middle game. Its plot is a rehash of A3; nothing really new to see there. Its engine is new and doesn't have the polish that shows up in A5. Kind of a downer, and you can probably skip it in good conscience. That said, it brought in the first fights with interesting scripted gimmicks, the first visit to an Avernum that isn't also a forced penal colony, the shades are more interesting than monster plagues, and the gameplay is fine. Not great, but fine. —Alorael, who certainly didn't regret playing it. He's not sure he'll be replaying it again anytime in the next few years, but it wasn't a disastrous low point for the series. It's just the least good of a set of very good games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 The Shades are by far the best part of A4. They are the one part of the game that you don't expect -- even having heard about them, I was still surprised when I reached the towns they afflicted -- and the atmosphere of those towns was pretty well done, too. Unfortunately, they are directly connected to two of the more bang-your-head-against-the-wall-it's-so-painful-to-watch plot elements, Ghall-Ihrno and of course Rentar-Ihrno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 If only the Darkside Loyalists had a bigger role and been responsible for more of Avernum's problems, then the plot would have been better. As the main villains of Avernum 5 they added a major upgrade with a whole new motivation for what was happening, but sadly they were almost useless again by Avernum 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Micawber Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 This thread reminds me of one I started when I was struggling to motivate myself to play Avernum 4. I had similar troubles with Avernum 6 actually; Avernum 5 was the only one of the second trilogy I was actually looking forward to replaying (that may be because the map is more interesting, not being shared with other games). Having said that, on a replay the tactical elements of gameplay do add some interest to Avernum 4. And I definitely enjoyed playing more once I started following DV's suggestion and designing my party around 3 priests and 1 mage. Once you get divine retribution, having 3 priests is seriously fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Skwish-E Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Avernum 4 was my first Spiderweb game, and, as such, it has a nostalgic appeal to me. I imagine that if I go back and try it again, though, I'll notice things that bother me about it when compared to AM5, AM6, and AD. AM = AvernuM AD = AvaDon Though It could be AU and AO, or Ave and Ava... At least GeneForge and Exile don't start with Av. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Necris Omega Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 What good points can I come up with for Avernum 4? Let me see here... *Color-shifts lend a greater amount of differentiation between items, be the magic, mundane, or otherwise. *The triumphant return of actual AoE spells, Cloud of Blades not withstanding. *Multiple levels of Avernum give classical regions a new and interesting twist. *First Aid isn’t as useless or pointless. *The Honeycomb is a much more impressive maze now. ... That's all I got at the moment, sadly. As the game goes on, it's becoming less insufferable, but still... I want to like this game. Really. Spiderweb has made me into the nerd I am today, I feel as though I owe it to them. Still, that said... I hate to say this, and I mean I really, really hate to say this, but this is the first and only legitimately bad game Spiderweb has ever put out. Yes, Alorael, you're a far kinder and gentler soul than I am when it comes to this game. Right now I'm in deep enough where I'm absolutely determined to see it through to the end, especially after I took all the time to whittle down and clean up Avadon's item graphics and splice them in. Still, it's a matter of principle now, not necessarily enjoyment. At least the second trilogy goes uphill from here. Avernum 6 had the best system and I think Avernum 5 was the best of the three in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 You don't need to horde money to get training (from skill points), (in X1-3 you had to find a training hall and there pay a trainer per skill you wanted to increase with skill points, in A4-6 skill point allocation is free, though trainers still exist but with a different system, which wreaks havoc in tracking the secret skill prerequisites). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Necris Omega Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 Eh, I was usually complaining more about the gold cap than I was having to spend money on skills... That said, I will give A4+ that their training system does make more sense. If you're THAT skilled at EVERYTHING to be able to teach even the most godlike of adventurer things... Why don't YOU go save/take over the world, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Arch-Mage Solberg Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 You know what could be good to see? A training system almost like the ones that the Elder Scrolls games use. Have the traing halls in every city but have the masters spread out anywhere. You could only train up to maybe 10 in a skill before you had to see the master. Post #574 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Necris Omega Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 Further proof of the infinite capacity for things to be worse I suppose... Ah well I've just killed off the Shades and beaten the current mayor of Spire into a fine paste, as per tradition. And... honestly, the end game isn't all that bad if you can get that far. The problem is actually getting there. Ah well. Avernum 5 was a whole lot better - playing through that should be more fun, but I think I'll have to do something different - my usual party composition (no humans) just never felt right for an Empire strike force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES The Shades are by far the best part of A4. They are the one part of the game that you don't expect -- even having heard about them, I was still surprised when I reached the towns they afflicted -- and the atmosphere of those towns was pretty well done, too. Unfortunately, they are directly connected to two of the more bang-your-head-against-the-wall-it's-so-painful-to-watch plot elements, Ghall-Ihrno and of course Rentar-Ihrno. also they're basically directly borrowed from Ultima 5, so there's that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 who, in turn, seem to be pretty clearly nazgul-inspired. I did not know either of those things. neat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Speaking of avernum 4, can someone explain to me the benefits of first aid as a skill. If i have a character that has a high first aid skill, and he kills an enemy, will that character regain more health for himself or the group? It didnt really state which one in the manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 The first aid skill uses the combined amount for the whole party. It restores health based upon the damage you do to monsters and spell energy from casting. It doesn't do it if the monsters are summoned ones and a few special spawns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Thanks for the info. You guys really are prompt and extremely helpful. One of the only things that i dont think shouldnt have been taken away was the ability to defend for your fighters. I found that that helped my fighters and fighting characters as they have nothing to do while waiting to close in on the enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Necris Omega Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share Posted July 17, 2011 Indeed. It doesn't even make a return in Avernum 5, though, that aside, it's amazing how much of an improvement it is over Avernum 4. You don't really notice unless you play them one right after the other... So yeah, I soldiered through Avernum 4. A lot have said it's like a watered down A3, and... yeah, they're right. Sure, you get to actually KILL Rentar this time around, but... she's a fricken ROCK. Magic powers aside, it still feels a lot like Earthworm Jim kicking over the evil goldfish bowl in the end. Plus the Dorikas debacle kinda dispels the effect... Ah, but Avernum 5 is so much better. Not once have I felt (in the normal passage of the game, the Slith Temple was a bit of a violent hair remover) compelled to cheat because everything felt so tedious or frustrating. The Avernum "frontier" is a much better fit for the "seamless" system, and the 180° of playing for the Empire is a really interesting twist. The Bestiary and adversaries feel like they have more substance to them (Avernum 4 felt like 90 different flavors of rat, goop, and squiggly worms most of the time), and the item system is even better. More PC graphics, and the combat system is just... so, so sweet. Battle Disciplines? No more "Not enough action points, sucks to be you!!!" situations? Avernum 5 makes Avernum 4 look even worse, like going from a pot pie full of farting lizards to a German chocolate cake garnished with money. Just about the only things I'd take from Avernum 4 over Avernum 5 is how Avernum 5 is unabashedly linear and, well, the ending. Though I haven't tried siding with Dorikas - something to try perhaps. Yeah, Avernum 4 was tough, but Avernum 5? Like the original trilogy, I feel like I'm having fun again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 you can save Rentar's life too but doubt many did that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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