Garrulous Glaahk Rionep Ecnirp Etlevs Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Why can they spit fire twice a turn (like a missile weapon), but when I control a creature's moves directly (creation with 2 or more Int), they can only attack once? I'm technically playing Geneforge 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Some enemy creations are specially set to have extra action points so they can take more than one action per round. Or they could just be hasted, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Firecage Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 No. I think he means about his creations. I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Øther Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 I think he's talking about autopilot creation that he made, and creations that he made with 2+ intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Rionep Ecnirp Etlevs Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 Originally Posted By: Other I think he's talking about autopilot creation that he made, and creations that he made with 2+ intelligence. Correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Either they have enough AP to attack twice, and when you control them, you use the AP to move rather than attack twice, or they have been hasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Rionep Ecnirp Etlevs Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 Originally Posted By: Master1 Either they have enough AP to attack twice, and when you control them, you use the AP to move rather than attack twice, or they have been hasted. Except that's simply not the case. Every enemy drakon has the capability to use its fire attack twice, and so does every autopilot drakon I create. Mine are not hasted, and I doubt most enemy drakons are either. Still, they use their attack twice per turn. Contrast this with drakons I create with Intelligence 2 or higher. Just one controlled attack consumes all AP, whether I've moved them or not at all. AM I REALLY THE ONLY PERSON TO HAVE NOTICED THIS? It's at least true in G4. I recently played G5, and I think it remains true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice ex post slarto Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 If it was just enemy drakons, I might blame the difference on differing definitions for default enemy and creation drakons. But the drakons you make have the same stats whether you control them or not. I assume you can observe the same phenomenon with Drakons of > 2 Intelligence, where you turn the AI on. Have you tried that? It would be useful confirmation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice ex post slarto Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 No, wait. In the G4 scripts, hostile Drakons (and Ur-Drakons) get +4 to AP, that PC-created Drakons (and Ur-Drakons) do not get. Are you absolutely, positively, 100% sure you have seen this happen with PC-created Drakons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 If your AI Drakons are getting the +4 AP, there is most likely some corruption in the game, and you'll need to reinstall it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Why would you get rid of a corruption that helps you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Perhaps he would get a new corruption that always gave the +4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Artila Mordea Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 I know that with ranged, controlled creations, occasionally I get an extra attack despite having 0 Action Points remaining. This occurs when I'm clicking frantically on the same target. I suspect that one of these clicks registers after I've used up my APs, but before the computer has had the time to switch to the next character. I've noted that the same thing happens in Avernum 5. It's a bug. How is this relevant to what the OP has described? Perhaps creations with 0 intelligence repeatedly try to attack after their action points are expended, and one of these attacks is registered when it shouldn't be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Maybe creatures with O int are registered as neutral creatures fighting on your side, and thus are treated with the same rules as hostiles. This would make them have the same stats and abilities as enemies of their level. On the flip side of the coin, they are also controlled by the absolutely stupid AI. Which allows me to quote my favorite Jeff quote ever: Originally Posted By: Jeff I write my AI in, oh, say, 5-10 minutes. Usually while drunk. In other words, I put twice as much effort in my AI as everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Where did he say that? Doesn't seem like something he would say on the forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Originally Posted By: Master Ackrovan Where did he say that? Doesn't seem like something he would say on the forums. Dunno, I quoted some guy who quoted him here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 And the quote is from here. That chat's from 1997, and it's followed with a more serious explanation: Quote: And I've never concealed the fact that my creature AI is awful. My only defense, and it is a weak defense, is that everyone else's is just as bad. Unfortunately. In 1997 that was not terribly untrue. Now AI has improved substantially. Jeff's has too, but the difference between his games and the hottest new games is noticeable. —Alorael, who suspects Jeff has been working on achieving perfect BAC for a while now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Rionep Ecnirp Etlevs Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 Originally Posted By: Mordea How is this relevant to what the OP has described? Perhaps creations with 0 intelligence repeatedly try to attack after their action points are expended, and one of these attacks is registered when it shouldn't be. Very interesting. I was controlling a rotgroth today, and I was able to attack again with 0 AP. I only managed it once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Artila Mordea Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 Originally Posted By: Svelte Prince Penoir Originally Posted By: Mordea How is this relevant to what the OP has described? Perhaps creations with 0 intelligence repeatedly try to attack after their action points are expended, and one of these attacks is registered when it shouldn't be. Very interesting. I was controlling a rotgroth today, and I was able to attack again with 0 AP. I only managed it once. Yeah, I just tested it in A5 as well, and two characters in a row (mage and priest) got an extra attack despite clearly being at 0 AP (indeed, the game 'stopped' for a second when I was clicking), although this required an hour of playing casually. From this I would conclude that the lag that occurs when switching between characters can occasionally be used to squeeze in another attack. It's a game glitch. Whether the same glitch is occurring for creations you are not directly controlling is a bit uncertain, but it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 So now we have another glitch to exploit mercilessly? Cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Rionep Ecnirp Etlevs Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 Originally Posted By: TIMEBREL DANTS ON TH FLHORLTHULG No, wait. In the G4 scripts, hostile Drakons (and Ur-Drakons) get +4 to AP, that PC-created Drakons (and Ur-Drakons) do not get. Also, what is the logic behind scripting enemies like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Øther Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 So they can kill you faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Shaper Tristan Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Originally Posted By: Other So they can kill you faster. welcome to the mind of jeff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Geneforgeisformeyukkyu Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Originally Posted By: Svelte Prince Penoir Originally Posted By: TIMEBREL DANTS ON TH FLHORLTHULG No, wait. In the G4 scripts, hostile Drakons (and Ur-Drakons) get +4 to AP, that PC-created Drakons (and Ur-Drakons) do not get. Also, what is the logic behind scripting enemies like that? I think I read somewhere in Jeff's blog that he thought a game should be VERY hard for him, but then again he also said that the game should be easy on normal o.o. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice ex post slarto Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Originally Posted By: Dantius Maybe creatures with O int are registered as neutral creatures fighting on your side, and thus are treated with the same rules as hostiles. This would make them have the same stats and abilities as enemies of their level. On the flip side of the coin, they are also controlled by the absolutely stupid AI. This is not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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