Seasoned Roamer Shrapy Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Who do you think should have won the war? One of the councilors, the Rebels, or Litalia and the trakovites? I personally side with Litalia. Shaping seems just to dangerous to be used properly. Plus no one seems to know when enough it enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Velzan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Half Trakovite Half Shaper Shaping is extremely useful must of terristia is brought to life by shaper magic and without ornks how would they be off? Its ok to shape just for example The geneforge when they realize what they have done Destroy it dont cover it up and forget Destroy the problem before it becomes one. Lol *trakovites wouldent exist if the shapers were smart* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer shaper_medej Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Yes but the fact is they weren't smart...they sat on their ass while their lands were being overrun, if they went out there they could have won it G3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I tend to support he rebels. The Shapers have shown themselves to be ineffective at dealing with problems with reason and are too arrogant to be dealt with peacefully. While the Drakons are not the idea alternative, it's worth the price to pay to set up a peaceful world after the war. The Great Archon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Velzan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Do you really think power hungry drakons that reshape themselves as a hobby wont build up a massive army including unbound and go ravage the sholai then everything else on the planet? Lol Rebels = NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 What reason would the Drakons have to attack the Sholai? Or any other neation for that matter? They have nothing to gain and a lot to lose. No, if the Drakons were to win completely and take control of everything, they'd have very little incentive to leave and just randomly start attacking people. And Drakons don't reshape themselves as a hobby. They do so out of necessity. Otherwise, the Shapers would swoop in and destroy them before they had time to shed a tear. Same goes for Lifecrafters, for that matter. The Great Archon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Velzan Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Ok maybe reshapin aint a hobby but do you really think the hundreds (if not thousands) of power-mad insane drakons would stay in a single continent? i doubt it ... the only other known continent is the sholai... so thats all they have to go if theyre so mad they want more lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Drakons are not "insane" where they indiscriminately kill random things and people. Arrogant? Yes. But not insane. All they want to do is destroy the Shaper ideal. Simply because, their continued existence contradicts that of Shaper law. And, even if they were, what's the point? Presumably, if there are other lands aside from the Sholai's, they are too distant for the Shapers to have meet them already. And the Drakons won't just pick a direction and set sail either. The Great Archon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Øther Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Velzan, have you played Ghaldring's faction in G5? If you hve or do, then it would disprove many of the things you are saying. But anyways, I think that Ghaldring's faction has the absolute best ending for the rebels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Velzan Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 I only played through that once so kinda fuzzy Soz. (On further note Im not much of a rebel Excluding GF4 im kinda thrown into it and have a hard time staying with the shapers) Better to just ignore my earlier post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 i think that the whole darn WAR is pointless, just 3 groups of people who got bored with they're orderly lives and needed something to go in the history books for. shapers 4 evah, alwan 4 evah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan AnarhIztok2511 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 It is sort of sad that you can't first end the shaper rule and then "deal" with the drakons in the game itself. Click to reveal.. Well, actually the rebel ending does so, so I was more than thrilled when I reached it. And the rebel lands name, Sucia - it almost put tears into my eyes. Really. I was so surprised, it being a game and all, but it sure was nice. Anyway - I ask this all those who oppose the rebel ending so much: WHYYYYYYYYYYYY?!?!?!?! Have you even reached it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 yes. i think that the rebels have a good reason to rebel [except for the drakons] but it's just plain stupid. so, therefore, i choose the shapers so that i dont have to live my life under a rock. i'm not that passionate about it though, and i'm not too crazy about the shaper's cruelty. but they get the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Øther Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Originally Posted By: Agent Artemis yes. i think that the rebels have a good reason to rebel [except for the drakons] but it's just plain stupid. so, therefore, i choose the shapers so that i dont have to live my life under a rock. i'm not that passionate about it though, and i'm not too crazy about the shaper's cruelty. but they get the job done. How is it stupid? Why don't you think that the Drakons have a good reason to rebel? And why would you live under a rock if you were a rebel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 because drakons just want to be the "new shapers" but crueler. rebels are poor. the rebels attack their leaders, which have the big guns around here. that's pretty much as simple as i can get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Quote: because drakons just want to be the "new shapers" but crueler. That didn't answer his question. He was asking why don't the Drakons have a reason to rebel. Because the Shapers would leave them alone? Hardly. The Shapers would take advantage and destroy them without a second thought. Quote: the rebels attack their leaders, which have the big guns around here. Well of course they're going to attack their leaders, just like the Shapers/Drakons would attack them! Their homocidal maniacs that torture and execute anyone who questions them, not to mention the years of cruelty and neglect they have treated their creations with. The Shapers deserve what is happening to them. Quote: rebels are poor. Okay, this statement has me lost. Do you mean financially poor, or that their morales and reasons for rebelling are poor? The Great Archon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Earth to Ackrovan? the drakons were MADE to destroy the shapers. if something was trying to kill you, you would fight back, no question. the outsiders either want POWER or REVENGE, and they have the nerve to call the shapers ignorant? think back to the rebellion on harmony isle. Were those people living the good life? Hardly. you question the shapers and you die. yup. However, is Ghaldring much better? "challenging me once shows spirit. any more then that shows defiance." THEY ARE CREATIONS. THE SHAPERS MADE THEM. THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT TO THEM. every word is making me lean towards the shapers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Originally Posted By: Agent Artemis THEY ARE CREATIONS. THE SHAPERS MADE THEM. THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT TO THEM. Even most Shapers don't believe that. They do put some restrictions into place to make sure that creations aren't horribly abused or neglected. (The law against creation-fighting for sport has appeared in at least three games, for instance.) Creations are living things, after all. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Quote: Earth to Ackrovan? the drakons were MADE to destroy the shapers. if something was trying to kill you, you would fight back, no question. Agreed. Same goes for the Drakons, considering that their existence contradicts Shaper Law. Quote: the outsiders either want POWER or REVENGE, and they have the nerve to call the shapers ignorant? Most humans who are fighting want revenge for the years of domination and cruel government at the hands of the Shapers, yes, but it's under good reasons. The Shapers have outright neglected outsiders because they did not want to introduce new species so quickly into an environment. While this is well intentioned, the fact that they are too lazy to even take the time to explain this to humans is inexcusable. Quote: However, is Ghaldring much better? Yes. He at leasts lets outsiders complain about what he is doing to his face (go talk to Greta). Events like Thosso-Losso are rare and uncommon. Quote: challenging me once shows spirit. any more then that shows defiance." If you're fighting a much more skilled enemy, than you can't afford to tolerate to much "defiance" in your command struture. Plus you got the quote wrong. Originally Posted By: Ghaldring Challenging me once shows spirit. More so, and then you are interfering with the war against the Shapers. ....Which you are. And the Shapers would do the same anyway. Quote: THEY ARE CREATIONS. THE SHAPERS MADE THEM. THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT TO THEM. If you found a peaceful, intelligent, talking dog, would you kill it and get a new, dumb one? I hope not. The Great Archon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Quote: If you found a peaceful, intelligent, talking dog, would you kill it and get a new, dumb one? a huge hulking huminoid battle alpha isn't anything like a dog. i'm not saying that they are MEAN to creations, they just use dicipline to maintain control. On another note: that's the only reason why drakons are banned. Who wants a powerful, disobediant giant lizard hulking around? about ghaldring's listening skills: There is also a mage in Gazaki-uss that is complaining about not being able go see Ghaldring. Quote: the fact that they are too lazy to even take the time to explain this to humans is inexcusable. yeah, it would be nice if the shapers explained their intentions to outsiders. however, you cant expect the outsiders to fully understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Dear, mothers make their children. Fathers do too, Nalyd supposes. Does that give them the right to do whatever they wish to their offspring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 yup. they can spank 'em, love 'em, hate 'em, or make them clean their rooms. anything that's not against the law. then again, would you consider a floating squid and a creature with acid oozing out of it's skin a child? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Anything that's not against the law, you say. The Shapers have laws. That would tend to undermine your argument that they have the right to do whatever they want to their creations. Personally, Nalyd is all for creation abuse, not for any philosophical or moral question of "rights," but because he wants to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 i have the perfect song lyric to reply to. "we're the ones who made you." [da buh da] ~Eminem~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Congratulations, you have failed to rebut in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 why thank you. i will accept my award now. in other words: sure the shapers have laws protecting their creations. but who has to know that they beat the crap out of them? so they can still do whatever they want to them. shape, slap, stab, absorb, repeat. it's a little thing i like to call DECEIT. If you'd talked to rawal or astoria you would know that. btw i'm athiest too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Dear, saying that creation abuse is allowed simply because laws can be broken is like saying murder, rape, and torture is allowed because you can get away with it. Sure, people don't follow the laws. But the laws are there to represent the opinions of the society as a whole, not specific individuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Quote: The Shapers have laws. That would tend to undermine your argument that they have the right to do whatever they want to their creations. laws? the shapers have... if you're a rebel, it's probably BECAUSE of the laws! if the rebels dont have to follow them, then why should i? Quote: Dear, saying that creation abuse is allowed simply because laws can be broken is like saying murder, rape, and torture is allowed because you can get away with it. yes. that's exactly what i'm saying. i could be an 30 year old murderer and i could get away with it. do you know why? BECAUSE NOONE KNOWS. it's just like michel jackson: can you PROVE he did anything? i dont exactly think that the person you murdured, tortured, or raped was made using your shaping and essence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Yes, if the Taliban doesn't have to follow laws, why should you? Great, you get to be a criminal. The Shapers would, if you were caught, punish you. Are you trying to say that the ability to do something is the right to do it? If a man were to break into your home and murder you just because he could, would you mind? Michael Jackson is hated just about universally. His life is generally going down the tubes. Your argument was that because creations are created, their creator can do whatever they please. If parents raped, tortured, and murdered their creations - their children - is it then alright? Is it better than doing the same to a stranger? Edit: Nalyd, please watch your language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 i dont feel like arguing right now. so yes, to every question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Untamed Banana Slug Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Artemis: Quote: if the rebels dont have to follow them, then why should i? It's funny that you should mention that. After all, each of the four Councillors flaunts Shaper law in some manner, even Alwan. Perhaps a better question would be: If the Shapers can do what they wish because they are strongest, why can't the drakons do likewise? You can't selectively apply your 'might makes right' philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 you know what, banana slug? i really like that. thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Dear, UBS spoke against you. Oh? If your parents walked right in and killed you now, you wouldn't mind? Fascinating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 nope. and i'm not completly shaper, and i'm not completely rebel. i'm a shabel. i have the right to agree with either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer shaper_medej Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I am starting to support the rebels now that im replaying the entire series. The only thing that bugs me is that they killed all those people in G3, but other then that im a rebel that likes to call him self a shaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious Artila DOA Assassin Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Am I the only Shaper supporter here XD? Since I first started Avernum I thought that the Shapers were a awesome group of people cause they had a lot of power (and sorta looked like like the grim reaper). I loved the way they controlled everything and almost every Geneforge game I played I supported the Shapers till the end. However I never did anything wrong. I was the merciful Shaper. I actually listened to the townsfolk and gave an honest opinion on things, instead of saying... NO SHAPER POWER!!! And killing everyone. It's one reason why I like geneforge cause you have so many options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Quote: Since I first started Avernum I thought that the Shapers were a awesome group of people cause they had a lot of power um...avernum doesnt HAVE any shapers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Avernum 2 has Vahnatai Shapers but they work in crystals instead of organics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Velzan Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Didnt they summon Crystal shades too? (Geneforge 5's 8000th post.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Originally Posted By: Velzan Didnt they summon Crystal shades too? Crystal Souls, you mean? Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Velzan Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Yep But i guess they carved them more and then mages kinda inbued the soul into it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Originally Posted By: Velzan Yep But i guess they carved them more and then mages kinda inbued the soul into it... A crystal soul isn't a soul that's imbued into a crystal; it's a soul that's taken the form of a crystal. The Vahnatai summon the soul and the crystal grows around it, not the other way round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 They're made at the moment of death or as a kind of death substitute, actually. Summoning the soul doesn't require any effort. Keeping it around does. —Alorael, who doesn't think the shapers were ever anything more specific than powerful vahnatai mages, presumably those most capable of shaping the crystals that vahnatai use to do everything. They aren't necessarily or specifically the ones who are involved in crystal soul formation, though of course as talented mages their most skilled ranks probably top the rosters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.