Default Graphic Sets

[Faerie Storm]

What about adding a road on the snow? It would have to be somewhat snowy but roads do tend to get cleared so it would make sense. Also what about deep snow?

[Celtic Minstrel]

Originally Posted By: The Almighty Doer of Stuff

There are no hills in that set. The hills are covered with snow and are invisible, and that's the way I think it should be. It's a direct snow-to-mountain transition.

Hm, okay. Though I'd sort of like some kind of distinction between hills. Maybe just transitions from snow to snow, though I don't know if that could work...

Originally Posted By: The Almighty Doer of Stuff

I certainly don't think there should be straight-line transitions to hills if you do decide to make hills, because how often to you see rows of hills in perfectly straight lines?

Well, the default hills aren't straight lines either...

Originally Posted By: The Almighty Doer of Stuff

Also, that's not a marsh, that's snow-covered crops.

Oh wow, so it is. Let's keep it as-is then. It doesn't seem as useful (wouldn't the crops have been harvested?) but I can imagine some use for it.

Originally Posted By: Faerie Storm

What about adding a road on the snow?

Roads are handled automatically by the game. You could add a graphic with the little "road dot" in the middle, so that you can tell where the road is in the editor, but it's not strictly necessary.

Originally Posted By: Faerie Storm

Also what about deep snow?

I believe the assumption is that the snow is deep.

There should be embankments from clearing snow away, to place in towns. They could be impassable, even.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

If someone does make embankments, please don't make them look like they've been plowed by a truck.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Yes, that would be rather anachronistic. They should probably look as though they've been made by teams of shovellers, if that's possible.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

The 1x1 and 2x1 snow banks already in the set should do that just fine, I think, although if someone wants to do more that's fine too.

[Celtic Minstrel]

You mean the rubble? Rubble isn't quite the same as a snow bank...

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

Oh, I guess I must have been thinking of the other set. Whoops.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Yes, in the other set that's probably the one good graphic. The main problem I have with Drx Draxis's set is that he just took the regular surface graphics and added snow. For some of them, such as the trees, it doesn't make sense (they would lose their leaves!).

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

Yes, in the other set that's probably the one good graphic. The main problem I have with Drx Draxis's set is that he just took the regular surface graphics and added snow. For some of them, such as the trees, it doesn't make sense (they would lose their leaves!).

maybe they're live oaks or eucalypts or something

[Celtic Minstrel]

Don't live oaks live in places where they don't get snow? I'm pretty sure eucalyptus does too.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

We have oak trees on the Boston Common, and it certainly snows up here.

 

I'm going to have look at the two sets again.

 

EDIT: Yeah, DRK DRAXIS's set is kind of weird, including the snow drifts, but the snow drift concept is good. Maybe a two-tile snow drift similar to the first graphic in the second row of Wyrmfire's set would be good. Of course, it could double as a large hill outdoors, like the one with the cave.

[Crynsos]

Quote:

Now for a quick question. Look at this sheet. (It's the items sheet from Exile 1, if you're wondering.) Can anyone tell me what that pole weapon on the last line is, and whether it's worth adding to BoE? Also, what's the white thing on the second line? And lastly, the arrows and the tools – should they be added? (Tools being the last on the second line.) And also, what about the gold (my inclination is "yes") and the food (I'm leaning towards "no")?

In case you didn't get your answers yet...

The item at the first picture looks heavily like the typical twin spear of the Slithzerikai, didn't even know they had that in Exile 1 but I'm very much for adding it in as an alternative to the fake trident... 2 spikes is true slith style.
The second item at the first pic looks heavily like a wand, you know, the usable magic item aside from scrolls and potions. (And these two being right beside it is not coincidence either)

I'd say add the arrows for sure, as well as the wand as a a nice alternative. (Example: Bone Wands)
Gold should be added, not sure about the tools but more like yes, if you mean the mold / mushrooms as the food, better not.

Quote:

Now look at this sheet. What on earth is that thing between the halberd and the bow on the first line? Is it worth adding? What about the scroll on the second line? The shield on the third line? (I think the shield isn't worth it.)

The thing between the halberd and bow is most likely cash as the places of ALL other items on the previous sheet are the same... some other form of currency maybe? And I doubt we need to add that. Scroll looks worth adding if it can be properly enlarged, shield not at all.

Quote:

And last but not least... the current set of item graphic has one that is blank. Is there any reason to keep that? Do people consider it useful to be able to make an item that's invisible? Or should that slot be filled with something else?

I'd rather always keep an invisible spot available for everything that can be transparent (= everything but terrain), as people usually always find some use for them.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel

Don't live oaks live in places where they don't get snow? I'm pretty sure eucalyptus does too.

they're magic live oaks

[Mistb0rn]

Here's what I have so far -- the fences and walls for hills, the ice sets for the snow, a cleared snowy ground, and some rows of little shovel piles of snow.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Wow, a very belated answer. Thanks!

 

Originally Posted By: Crynsos

The item at the first picture looks heavily like the typical twin spear of the Slithzerikai, didn't even know they had that in Exile 1 but I'm very much for adding it in as an alternative to the fake trident... 2 spikes is true slith style.

I agree, though I don't particularly like this particular graphic and would be more inclined to use one from Avernum for true 2-pronged slith spears.

 

Originally Posted By: Crynsos

The second item at the first pic looks heavily like a wand, you know, the usable magic item aside from scrolls and potions. (And these two being right beside it is not coincidence either)

The lack of any other wand seems to support this, too.

 

Originally Posted By: Crynsos

I'd say add the arrows for sure, as well as the wand as a a nice alternative. (Example: Bone Wands)

Gold should be added, not sure about the tools but more like yes, if you mean the mold / mushrooms as the food, better not.

Okay then. I'll add the arrows, wand, and gold, but not the herbs.

 

Originally Posted By: Crynsos

The thing between the halberd and bow is most likely cash as the places of ALL other items on the previous sheet are the same... some other form of currency maybe? And I doubt we need to add that. Scroll looks worth adding if it can be properly enlarged, shield not at all.

It doesn't look like cash, but then it doesn't really look like anything. I'll add the scroll.

 

Originally Posted By: Crynsos

I'd rather always keep an invisible spot available for everything that can be transparent (= everything but terrain), as people usually always find some use for them.

Okay then, I'll leave it.

 

Originally Posted By: Mistb0rn

Here's what I have so far -- the fences and walls for hills, the ice sets for the snow, a cleared snowy ground, and some rows of little shovel piles of snow.

Nice ice! I'm not sure what to think of the shovel piles or the cleared ground; I think I'll wait for further opinions on that.

[keira]

Suggestion, that about a 'burg floating in the ocean. That way I can photoshoppe a picture of the Titanic and have a really intense scenario.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Or an ice floe, like an ice version of the Small Island.

 

 

...By the way, if we're using the snow graphics we'll have to add... Wyrmfire? ...to the credits...

[Mistb0rn]

Oh, I finally remembered what I had forgotten. 767 I believe it was. Here.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Nice! Should we add a lamppost to hill too? And what about the second/third graphic? I forget what that would be called, but should it be available above ground?

[Mistb0rn]

You said it was a place to tie a giant lizard, but it would just as easily work for a horse or some other above-ground animals. Here are above-ground versions and the lamppost on hill.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Nice light effects on the lampposts.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

Originally Posted By: Mistb0rn

lamppost on hill.

I made an alternate version, which I believe is significantly better:

Lampost on hill

[Thaluikhain]

Would the lamppost work better with animation? Flcikering flames and all, I mean.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Yeah, maybe...

[Mistb0rn]

I can give it a try. I'll be away until Sunday afternoon, so I might not have anything new until Monday or Tuesday.

 

Apart from little edits like that one, is there anything else specific you'd like from Avernum, or are we just about done?

[Celtic Minstrel]

At the moment, I can't think of anything else we might want.

 

In fact, we have vastly increased the number of graphics already; I don't think we need any more.

 

 

But we could potentially move on to item and monster graphics.

[Mistb0rn]

In that case, I've gotten started on the chair project. here is the first comparison version you asked for, with the old chair, the larger one, and the original exile one. I also threw in that bed, because I realized that I'd made it and never used it on any floor. You don't need to keep it if you don't like it.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

It still looks like you stylized the stone chair. Unlike the Exile trilogy, BoE isn't limited to 256 colors, as far as I'm aware. If that's part of the problem, I mean.

 

The size of the chair is much better, anyway.

[Celtic Minstrel]

It looks quite good. One minor tweak may or may not make it better: widening the back of the chair. Why don't you try it and see how it looks? I'm not sure if it would be better, but we can try.

 

Will you be doing the same thing with the BoA chair? Or are you just doing the Avernum trilogy chair? (I forget...)

[Mistb0rn]

It's supposed to be the BoA chair, the sort of gray stone one on 729. It's shaped strangely, so I'm having trouble figuring out how to convey that from a front angle.

 

I'll try widening the back. Once you're happy with it I'll do the other directions and the brown and blue one (721 I think).

[Celtic Minstrel]

Oh, wait, BoA has both chairs? I had forgotten that.

 

The BoA chair is actually the wooden one on sheet 721. The grey chair on 729 is the chair from the earlier Avernum games. That's not a problem, of course; both chairs are nice. You could use one chair on some floors and the other chair on other floors, if you like.

[keira]

Because I'm too lazy to read the shortcut text when I open BoE, I always ended up opening the character editor by mistake. Finally I got tired of this so I made an icon for the Character Editor. It's just sword.cur superimposed on the regular BoE icon, but I think it works. However, I just committed it for Win32 and put a PNG in /rsrc because iirc Windows and Mac Resources don't mix well. So yeah.

 

http://calref.co.cc/images/misc/boe_chared.png

[Tonweya]

FWIW, viewing the BoE Program, there are already two different Icons; one for each sub-program.

One is for BLADES.EXE and the other is for BLADPCED.EXE.

These should work fine.

me

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

This is not true. There are THREE programs, and those two have the same icon. The different icon is for the SCENARIO editor.

[Celtic Minstrel]

In the Mac version, the three programs have always had different icons. For some reason the Windows version uses completely different icons from the Mac version. (The character editor icon has a pencil rather than a paintbrush, for what it's worth.)

 

For the record, I can open .ico files just fine, and it's not particularly difficult to convert them to a Mac .icns file. As for Windows vs Mac resources, we're not even using Mac resource files anymore; the Mac version has been altered to load from separate image files as the Windows version does.

 

There may have been plans to move the Mac icons to Windows, but I'm not sure. Still, this is a useful contribution.

 

I'm definitely not going to move the Windows icons to Mac, since I feel the Mac ones look nicer, so it would've been safe to use the .ico format.

[The Almighty Doer of Stuff]

The Mac icons look nicer for the entire Exile series, in my opinion. I like the bevelled, painted-engraving-on-a-stone-tablet-like effect.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Speaking of which... if anyone wants to make 64x64 and 128x128 versions of those icons, that would be helpful. (I'm not sure if it has already been done for the game icon, but the editor icons certainly need it.) If needed I could also make them available in png format.

[Thaluikhain]

Just a thought, would it be worth making more potential PC graphics? It just struck me that you can't have a 6 character all slith or all nephil party as it is, due to there only being 4 of each.

 

On the other hand, it's easy (and fun!) to make your own custom PC graphics if someone wanted to do that.

[Celtic Minstrel]

Go for it. Vahnatai PC graphics may be an option too, though I'm not entirely sure whether we'll do that yet.

 

There will be added support for using custom PC graphics; it was planned as a way to allow monsters to join the party and keep their graphics, but something could also be added to the PC editor to support it.

[Thaluikhain]

Vahnatai PCs? Hmmm...would be interesting to have a PC race which had disadvantages, not just humans with bonuses.

 

What sort of graphics would be needed? I mean, is there a distinction between male and female nephils, do the different colours mean anything, should nephul PCs wear clothes (my graphics do, but the original ones set the precedent of not doing so) and so on?