Triumph

Originally Posted By: Other I don't really see why everyone gets so exited over watching some people in helmets run into each other and throw a ball around a field for a few hours. That's not it, it all about the commercials!!! Most of which were stupid anyway...

Not for the heroes who killed Emperor Hawthorne -- A1 had only human as the only playable race! :-)

When I was younger, I was put on a medication for OCD; it caused me to suffer from depression for the years on it (something I didn't realize until I went off the medication after several years; even later after that, I learned that med. was no longer prescribed to juveniles because it could cause suicidal tendencies - thankfully not something I had, though). I also had another prescription, for allergies, that caused me insomnia for a month. No doctors were able to figure this out, but eventually I figured it out on my own. Though it's not traditional medication, I've also received allergy shots for years and years, and they have been a huge blessing, making my life much easier (and just making breathing much easier!). These experiences, both quite negative and positive, give me a strong mistrust of prescription medications. They are very serious, and potentially dangerous. That DOES NOT mean you take them. Sometimes they can do great good (in my case, allergy shots are a wonderful boon and I've never had any bad reactions!). Not quite sure how to answer your poll. I've had prescription drugs that affected me quite adversely, but also the good experience of allergy shots. Basically, I think medication should be approached with distrust, extreme caution, and careful investigation, and you should never be afraid to drop it if you suspect there's a problem.

Originally Posted By: Niemand Atoms are tiny, brutal societies. The leptons are oppressed by the hadrons and forced to live in the far reaches of the atom, but not allowed to leave. Occasionally one is mercilessly devoured in electron capture. Within the nucleus the hadrons struggle for dominance; sometimes cliques (alpha particles) are forced out entirely. Gamma rays are emitted by the violence of their confrontations. This wins.

Originally Posted By: Ephesos Originally Posted By: Lerasti, historian When conflict finally ceased, and Chamulsep was slain, one major question was raised. What to do with the fallen soldiers? After long negotiations, the Allied mages wrought stone crypts across the marsh, and the fallen of both sides were interred there. Modern scholars view this quick and elegant solution as nothing short of a political miracle. :-) Nice way of answering my question about where all the stone for the crypts came from in the middle of big swamp.

So, I've been wondering, how was the Selos party intended to get their posse across the river, with all the wagons and pilgrims and so forth? Was there any default solution they were supposed to find?

Originally Posted By: Ephesos Originally Posted By: Liomha, dragonborn weaponsmith Of all the strange and ill-conceived weaponry I've seen over the years, one of the least practical I've seen is the catberd. Halberd on one end, cat o' nine tails on the other end. Almost impossible to wield, probably impossible to wield effectively. And everyone calls it a "catbard", which just makes no sense. Such a weapon would set up wonderful in-battle-taunts/literary references to "sitting in the catbird seat..."

There were statues honoring the heroes of A1 and A2 in Fort Emergence (there were, weren't there? I'm not imagining this?) and someone nearby would talk about how the first group of heroes did such and such and then disappeared, while the second (A2) group is still working down in Avernum. I thought that was a neat touch.

Originally Posted By: Randomizer You can always come back when you are more charming and convince them to fight each other. There are several areas that clear after enough die. The pacifist challenge pretty much means that you can't clear all zones. Eh...mental magic is of course a well-established strategy, but I've been looking to see how much I can get done apart from those...although I supposed technically using it wouldn't involved inflicting any damage...huh. And yes, some zone are definitely impossible to clear, or even explore (to say nothing of many impossible quests), but again that's part of the goal, to see how much can really be done relying on stealth, diplomacy, and mechanical skill.

No, no Aura spells. I don't think Steel Spines really do that much damage (from what I recall), and probably aren't part of the non-fighting options Jeff would have intended a player to use...

Harmony Isle East Harmony Dock started cleared. Swampy Shore just has to be walked through. Southern Marsh wasn’t cleared, but I can sneak through it relatively easily. San Ru is a friendly town. Roamer Marsh can be cleared by sneaking/mine-defusing through enough of it. Methane Swamp is tricky because it’s easy to get surrounded by Pyroroamer and trapped, but can be cleared if you manage to run in combat mode all the way across the zone. Dhonal Docks is automatically cleared. Gatherer Camp is either auto-cleared or cleared just by walking around a bit. Rebel Peninsula is cleared by deactivating the shield generat- ah, rather, by deactivating the power spiral, which can be done via sneaking methods that avoid the rogues. Rebel Camp is an auto-clear. Infested Pathway: just run through with Diwaniya’s creations; run run run or it’s bad. Madness Mire: just run for the trapdoor in the center. Twin mind tunnels: can be beat just letting Diwaniya’s creations beat up on stuff. An easier route to beat Harmony Isle (and the pro-rebel way) would be to just fetch Lankan’s canister and deliver it to him. The San Ru Tunnels are relatively easy to mechanic and sneak through for everything important. Southern Marsh and Vlish Woods seem to require killing to clear, so I cannot do them. Rather annoying, actually. Also cannot do the place with all the undead at Dhonal Docks.

The story so far: (Just to be clear: when I say “clear” an area, I mean make it green on the map, not exterminate all enemies in the zone. :-) ) Made it out from Under the School by running from the worms until I got to Therese, then used her to kill them. Led some enemies in the Shaper school to the servant mind’s room, and used NPC Stover to kill the wound alpha at the front the door. South End is a clear area. Sneaked through Eastern Road to clear it; must sneak (in combat mode) to routes to both Testing Grounds and Minefield Woods. Defuse mines in Minefield Woods. Kentia South Gate, Kentia East Gate, and For Kentia are clear, or cleared just by walking through. The commander in Fort Kentia can be leadershipped into letting you leave if you just find out what the threat on the island is. Testing Grounds are cleared just by walking through. Captured Bridge can be cleared by running up to the bridging and Leadershipping the thahd guard away. Sneaked through the Inner Mine zone. In Lair of the Creator, I presume just see the creator monster and then returning to Commander Hevvig would be enough to leave the island, but with Leadership 10 I shut down the creator. I haven't personally inflicted any damage on anything yet; any monsters killed were slain by NPCs completely out of my control, or by dialogue options (i.e. the creator). It really is interesting to see what options and paths Jeff put into the game to enable one to get around straight out fighting.

Yes, that's what I done so far. So in the Under The School starting area of G3, I didn't personally kill any worms, but there's nothing wrong with leading them to Therese and letting her kill them. For times when I need to kill something, that'll have to be the way. The goal is to use stealth/leadership/mechanics and the terrain/npcs rather than fighting myself. Well, I'm going to try it. Playing a Guardian (since he starts with more mechanics/leadership than the other classes), and probably staying loyal to the Shapers, just because I sympathize with them more in G3. I know I won't be able to access or clear all zones, but I want to try to beat the game at least.

Has anyone ever tried to play through a Geneforge game (any of the five) relying entirely on stealth/leadership/mechanics methods to win the game? I know that is hypothetically supposed to be possible to beat the game without striking a blow yourself (or via a creation). I'm just curious if any has tried it; I think I might (in G3, since that's the only Geneforge game I have).

Regarding things to see as you get into the late game: Although it takes a while, Gull Island is where one meets Khyryk (sp?), whom I feel is one of the most interesting characters in the game; I also thought Khor's Deep was an especially cool zone (underground mansion, hidden chamber, reuniting with Hoge). Those are both a ways into exploring Gull Island, so maybe they are reasons to persevere. Isle of Spears features an odd, interesting Drakon who is greedy, and a rather interesting village full of serviles and Drayks that is sort of cool to see--if you're a rebel and aren't forced into completely slaughtering them... It really isn't until Gull Island that the Rebels have a chance to become remotely compelling (not that I think they ARE compelling in G3, just that they improve beyond faceless rogues). Chill with the Serviles in Stonespire, chat them up, and give someone other than the wackos Litalia and Hoge a chance to persuade of their cause. Probably the biggest reason to Rebels, I think, is the drayks. They are more interesting than the serviles, I think. Oh, you also might enjoy smacking around some of the stupid shapers you've encountered thus far in the game. Sadly, joining the rebels requires you to kill Khyryk. Another opportunity that comes from going rebel is...SPOILER... ...Playing as a rebel, you'll eventually be sent to kill Rahul, and when that happens, you'll end up in a secret prison zone that is kind of interesting to escape from. CEASE SPOILER Overall, my sympathies lie more with the Shapers in G3, but neither they nor the Rebels are really all that appealing in this game.

I am sort of interested in playing in something like this, if you get enough people to do a second group...but I've never done anything along this line before... How much time does it actually take to participate?

This has turned into an interesting discussion, and I'd like to try to contribute my opinion. Originally Posted By: EDTA for the Ages —Alorael, who doesn't see moral complexities in Geneforge. They all boil down to gray. You can't make a good or evil choice (barring Taygen). You just get choices. The near total absence of good and evil is rather unusual, but it is not philosophically deep. Other games sometimes have more philosophy to them, but they more often concern the nature of good and evil. This. I was always disappointed by the lack real good and evil options in Geneforge. Such choices exist in real life--those choices may not always be obvious, and/or not be satisfying to everyone all the time, but they do exist, and it would have been nice to have such options alongside the "gray" ones. I think maybe G1 and G2 got a little closer to this by allowing you to refuse to join any faction if you so desired. I also question whether Avernum has moral choices, but they just aren't framed as "Choose philosophical issue response 1, 2, or 3," like in Geneforge. The first thing that springs to mind is the kleptomania Avernum seems to encourage--robbing every other person you meet throughout the realm, or at least having the option of doing so, certainly is moral issue. Then there are all the people and creatures you optionally fight: some may be obviously evil and thus deserve it, but otherwise, from a role-playing point of view, one could stop and consider whether hunting down this or that person just for a reward or to grow stronger is really moral. Finally, I mention Nethergate: Resurrection (fun stuff), which stands distinct from Geneforge and Avernum in giving relatively straightforward "good" AND "evil" moral choices, with specific rewards for those choices. So it's got more explicit moral choices than Avernum, but not the messy gray, hmm, complexity, perhaps, of Geneforge. A third possibility indeed. Finally, to conclude my ramble, it seems to my like gray morality and not-purely-heroic protagonists seem to be quite common today in a variety of media (video games, but also movies and television and books). The rise of the anti-hero in literature is rather fascinating, and it seems quite widespread in culture today. Now, such other non-computer-game media may not always use the "pick from these moral/philosophical choices" format of Geneforge, but that doesn't make them any less purveyors of gray morality issues. If anything, I'd say games with straightforward heroes and villains, the former clearly in the right and the latter clearly evil, are increasingly uncommon, as least from what I've observed (of course, "as far as I can see" isn't really all that far). Geneforge may be unique in the way it explicitly raises gray moral issues and forces the player to consider them, but it's not unique when it comes morally gray games or media. Triumph

Originally Posted By: goblindolf I have read that you can buy druidism / health circle / war circle / beast circle / craft circle in hagfen. I have read it's expensive for celts but is it also expensive for romans since they are supposed to like you? I'm playing torment with 4 characters and I am wondering if my 1 roman spellcaster should save his skill points until I get to hagfen so I can buy the first few levels of the circles before i put points into them. But how much would that cost him in gold? Is it financially feasible? It wouldnt be worth saving if that would cost me 8,000 gold for example. Are the spell circles also "expensive" for the romans, or do they get cheaper prices? I think it may depend on whether you're playing Nethergate or Nethergate: Resurrection. The hags are more friendly to the Celts in N:R (or at least they give you a quest that they won't give the Romans). First, you can do a quest for the hags (kill the selkie chief) to get a scroll that boosts the Beast or Craft circle for one character by...3 or 4, I think. You can only get one of those scrolls as the Romans, because you can only do that one quest. For Romans, the price for Beast and Craft circle was 1440 gold each. And you can only get one point of each of those circles. War/Healing circles cost 1080 each; I'm not sure about Druidism, or how many points you can buy in War/Healing/Druidism. But my guess is that if you have much of anything in those circles already, they'll probably be too high to train. Yes, the price rating is still "expensive." Basically, you can use the hags to help be able to cast the first level Beast and Craft spells (Create Light is useful!) but not much more.

Does Nature Lore still help you calm some wild animals like in A5?

It's only WikiAnswers, but I found a question on there about the ACICS, and here is the answer given there, FWIW: The preferred accreditation and the one you should be looking for is the regional accreditation. With a regional accreditation the coursework and degree you complete will be recognized by all other colleges and universities as well as employers. The six regional accrediting agencies and their areas of responsibility are indicted below. Make sure the school you choose is accredited by one of these agencies. Regional Accreditation Agencies · Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools - Educational institutions in New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, and the US Virgin Islands, as well as schools for American children in Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East. · New England Association of Schools and Colleges - Educational institutions in the six New England states (Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont). · North Central Association of Colleges and Schools - Educational institutions in Arkansas, Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, North Dakota, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma, New Mexico, South Dakota, Wisconsin, West Virginia, and Wyoming. · Northwest Commission on Colleges and Universities - Postsecondary institutions (colleges and universities) in Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, and Washington. · Western Association of Schools and Colleges - Educational institutions in California, Hawaii, Guam, American Samoa, Micronesia, Palau, and Northern Marianas Islands. · Southern Association of Colleges and Schools - Educational institutions in Virginia, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee and Texas. The ever-convenient Wicked- er...Wikipedia also has some potentially helpful comments: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_accreditation In general, it would appear that the ACICS accreditation is not...especially prestigious, at least.

Is the school accredited? That's what really matters, methinks. A diploma isn't going to say whether the degree was online or not (I wouldn't think?). But school accreditation represents at least some perception of a level of quality.

Originally Posted By: Margerine Eclipse Perhaps it would be helpful if I compiled a list of every single effect of every single skill? YES!!!

Originally Posted By: Margerine Eclipse Dexterity has absolutely no impact whatsoever on melee attacks, whether with one blade or two. Does DEX really do anything then? If it doesn't (meaningfully) help dodge, and doesn't help hit with melee attacks? There's actually no point to putting points in it? Weird.

Is A6 like some other games where if you've put points into a skill after a point you cannot use a trainer to raise it? Meaning you cannot raise a skill yourself until you talk full advantage of the trainer?

It depends a good bit on where you go to college and what classes you're taking (and whether you decide to go on to grad school!), but chances are you'll have a good bit flexible time as an undergrad, at least. The question is whether you'll really want to spend it all playing computer games. I'd recommend NOT doing that... Grad school is another matter entirely, but I've found a good computer game, like Nethergate: Resurrection, for example ( ) is good way to relax after hundreds of pages of assigned are about to drive me bonkers. And think a game set in early Avernum sounds quite interesting. I wonder if it would be early as in First Expedition discover of Avernum early, or early as in first batch of "criminals" to be banished early or early as in contemporary of Erika/Rone/Solberg but before Avernum 1 early?