Acky

They end Shaping. No shaping, no Shapers. The Great Archon

Quote: This is a Spiderweb game, so you will always be short of money I'm actually a little bit confused by this statement. Jeff has explicitly said he tries to make sure that the player is always on a tight budget?

Drakons are not "insane" where they indiscriminately kill random things and people. Arrogant? Yes. But not insane. All they want to do is destroy the Shaper ideal. Simply because, their continued existence contradicts that of Shaper law. And, even if they were, what's the point? Presumably, if there are other lands aside from the Sholai's, they are too distant for the Shapers to have meet them already. And the Drakons won't just pick a direction and set sail either. The Great Archon

The merchant is in the Fort Much area. If you're a Barzite, you can collect Shaper notes for a Shaper in Gheth. You can also collect Shaping Equipment for a women in Medab. But otherwise, you really have to be careful with the money. The Great Archon

What reason would the Drakons have to attack the Sholai? Or any other neation for that matter? They have nothing to gain and a lot to lose. No, if the Drakons were to win completely and take control of everything, they'd have very little incentive to leave and just randomly start attacking people. And Drakons don't reshape themselves as a hobby. They do so out of necessity. Otherwise, the Shapers would swoop in and destroy them before they had time to shed a tear. Same goes for Lifecrafters, for that matter. The Great Archon

I tend to support he rebels. The Shapers have shown themselves to be ineffective at dealing with problems with reason and are too arrogant to be dealt with peacefully. While the Drakons are not the idea alternative, it's worth the price to pay to set up a peaceful world after the war. The Great Archon

Well, I didn't want to give you my Beta Report anyway. The Great Archon

What does "IIRC" mean? The Great Archon

I'm about 99% sure that the only time you have to pay for your canister abuse is the bridge in Dera with the rude guards, and even then, you can intimidate them and avoid it. The Great Archon

Quote: If only I could pick up the jar I store everything in... With your pack rat habits, those objects would break through the bottom of the jar. The Great Archon

http://www.ironycentral.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=172655#Post172655 An Archonic Guide for Battle Creations. Also, don't forget to add the first one too (Fire Creations that is) Thanks! The Great Archon

Why don't you get a website to host this stuff on, like Freewebs? It'd probably be easier to update rather than just on thread. The Great Archon

Delicious Vilsh doesn't count? I mean, it's pretty sublte, but it is there. Edit: Nevermind, I forgot he was a Beta Tester. The Great Archon

This info is mainly based on results found on Torment. When a creation sucks on torment, it may not suck on a lower difficulty This is an Archonic Study of Battle Creations in Geneforge 5 Battle Creations are probably the strongest branch of creations in the game. They're strong, their fast, and they can take it for extended periods of time. What's even better is that they're cheap and disposable. Even at low levels, they can be dangerous on Torment if used properly, so long as you don't expect to keep them. The first creation you can get is the Thahd. A small humanoid creature that punches your enemies. It's a good creation that can hold it's own and still deliver a solid hit. It does not need much in the way of Baby sitting, and has enough health for such a low level creation that it won't need much healing either. Unfortunately, the Thahd is sort of doomed to be short-lived. You can get a Clawbug almost right at the start of the game, which is better than the thahd, respectively. Shaper types will want to trade out their Thahds for their Clawbugs immediately. Warrior-types will probably not have quite as much essence that early on. You can keep Thahds up right until the ending of the Whitspires and about midway into the Mera-Tev. By that time everyone will have enough essence to exchange them for Clawbugs. A Thahd works well as a Tank. Throw it into the middle of a brawl and you will have scary results. Most things will just get punched into smooth, smooth rogue jelly. Enemies like Artila's can be a problem, simply because two hits with an Artila's blob of acid will make your thahds very dead. Fyora's, other Thahds, worms etc won't be much of a problem. Just be sure to take out those Artila's first. The next creation is the Unstable Thahd. It's an upgrade of the regular thahd. It's fists have been infused with Acid, giving its attacks an acidic touch. It will cover it's enemies with Acid when it attacks. In other words, it's like a Mini-Rotghroth. Charged creations, they will die after they are made due to a constant loss of HP points. With Regeneration Aura, however, this is negligated. You can't take them out of the zone, because they are set up to die upon entering a new area. They have a fair amount of HP, although they are pretty fragile against everything except Magic attacks, oddly enough. They are, by nature, not going to last long on the battle field. In the brief time they are around, however, they are very useful. At high levels, a pair of Unstable Thahds can tear up pretty much anything in the first two parts of the game. The Cryoa's on the Mera Road, the Roamers in the Mera Fields, the Clawbugs near Kratoa-Kel, the worms in Okavano, they can all be met with death at the hands of these creations. Even classes like Agents can use a few of these for pure zerg-type creations. I remember when my Infiltrator made a batch of 7 Unstable Thahds and used them against Ghaldring. They weren't damaging him, but they were becoming the perfect distraction as the rest of the Shapers and myself pelted Ghaldring with attacks. The Acid is also useful. The next creation is the Clawbug. It's basically a huge scorpion that stings it's enemies with venom damage. Moderate with essence costs, the Clawbug is a powerful companion for any Shaper or Warrior (note that this is just a generic term. I include Guardians of course). While they are weak against Fire, Magic and Ice, you will not come up against these kinds of enemies save two places (the Cryoa's and the Vlish in Heft, respectivily). Clawbugs are almost immune to Poison After the Mera-Tev, however, you will be facing more enemies that use Magic damage. The Kyshakks near the farms, the Podling on the crossroads, the Glaahks. I've always found that this is where they have started to meet up with stiffer resistance, even with them at ridiculously high levels for Clawbugs (I'm talking 30s hear). Nevertheless, players have reported that they have kept their Clawbugs past the Storm Planes and did quite fine with it on lower difficulties. Like the Thahd, Clawbugs are tanks. Solid tanks that at high levels trample through rogues like a Bull in Mexico, and at low levels can take on pretty much anything in the Mera-Tev, provided you're backing them up with healing spells and blessing magic. Use them to keep the enemy tangled up in a net of stingers in the front while you pelt them with spells, thorns, or stick them yourself with a sword. The next creation is the Plated Bug. An upgrade of the Clawbug, Plated Bugs have much more health, start at a higher level, and now have 10 AP. They've lost their Poison bite that the Clawbug gets. However, thanks for the 10AP, this really doesn't draw them back much. You can get them immediately after entering the Mera area's, and it's a good idea to get them soon. Like Delicious Vlish pointed out in his Shaper Guide, Plated Bugs make excellent Shock Troopers. They can rip into a horde of enemies first, giving everything a firm stab by the time you and the rest of your creations come in. Letting them run wild with it's AI turned on is fine if their at a high enough level. At low levels, keep the AI turned off so you can control them. While they are not hands down better than Clawbugs, they are an excellent addition to any pack or creations. Use Plated Bugs like bottle rockets. Let them run into a group of enemies, dislodging them, and then allow the rest of your creations to catch up and rain a righteous rain of poking on them. A disorganized group of enemies is always easier than an orderly one. With enough health, your Plated Bugs will be taking in the majority of the attacks while your creations chip at the enemies numbers from the back. With you as a healing battery, suddenly all those attacks coming in on the Bugs really don't matter much, do they? The Battle Alpha is the next creation I will talk about. Battle Alpha's are okay. They attack with their fists in Melee, so they're basically overgrown Thahds. They have generally low resistances against attacks, save Physical damage. A single blast from a Wingbolt or Kyshakk will spell its doom, and even a one-on-one with a Glaahk will usually result in the Glaahks victory. The Battle Alpha's nitch, I think, is an extremely zergish creation that can be dispatched out quickly and not hurt the essence pool to much. I remember sending three Alpha's with my Warrior out to attack that Gazer in the Central Wastes. The point wasn't to kill it; rather, to distract it so I can move in and kill those Podlings with the real creations, and than. The main problem with this, however, is that there are better creations available to do this from. The Unstable Thahd, for instance, might have been a better fit for this. They would have been cheaper. On the flip side, Battle Alpha's have more health, so therefore they lasted longer against the big sack of cornea.Battle Alpha's can be used as tanks, similar to that of the Thahd or Clawbug. They won't be your best option if you have leveled Clawbugs with you, but it can happen. The next creation is the Battle Beta. It's an upgrade of the Battle Alpha in every way. Stronger, faster, and higher leveled too. Two well leveled Battle Beta's that are improved in their stats are pretty dangerous to everything that isn't strong against Physical damage, and nothing is strong against Physical damage. They act as the perfect body guards for a delicate Shaper or Sorceress. I managed to keep one right up to the end of the game, and it did just fine. One strategy I used is a Beta-Kyshakk pack. Betas keep them tied up in melee while Kyshakks destroy them with magic blasts from the rear. Wingbolts are technically better for this, but for a warrior type, this combo is probably better, simply because you use less essence in this regard. Rotghroths are the 4th tier creations in Battle Shaping. Rebels can get access to these creations first through that sage near the Kyshakk infested farms. The are huge, zombie-like, humanoids (although that's a stretch) that attack with Acid on their fists. They have low resistances against practically everything, save physical and poison, which they're immune to. A Rotghroth is cheap creation, so chalk up another point for the Rotghroth. Their arms are laced in Acid, so anything they attack will sink in acid. What really gives Rotghroths an edge is that they have a few points in Quick Action. This will let them have a second attack about half of the time. A more passive benefit is that they will almost always move first in the Battle order. This makes them great Light tanks they have a powerful damage output but a generally weak resistance against enemies Rotghroths make excellent light tanks. They have a lot of damage they can dish out, but can't take much damage without a little baby sitting. Rotdhizons rival the War Trall as the best overall creation in the game (note this does not mean the strongest; the Shock Trall takes that). They have every strength of the Rotghroth, but better. Stronger attacks, Quick Action, and more health all come into its favor. Plus they have 12 AP! This literally means they can run down and destroy any enemy in the game. 12AP also means that even after you kill an enemy with one attack with the Rotdhizon, you can than attack another enemy that's nearby. Hasted, even more so. The War Trall and the Rotdhzion are excellent companions for late in the game. The Rotdhizon keeps your enemies forced up in a bundle up front while the War Trall wipes the floor with them from the back. Overall, Rotdhizons make the perfect Shock Troop, not unlike the Plated Bug; only better. Pretty much everything is in their reach. While they are a bit short lived, they are extremely effective against pretty much everything in the game (Gazers, Drakons, Tralls, etc). The only thing I had trouble with while using Rotdhizons was when fighting other Rotdhizons. Go figure. War Tralls are the 5th tier battle creations. Instead of using a Fire/Ice/Magic ange attack that other range attackers use, the War Trall attacks by pelting the opposition with large rocks they keep in a pouch on the side of their hip. War Tralls are cheap, almost a bit to cheap for a 5th tier creation. With moderate resistances, you can trust a War Trall to be able to absorb damage reliably, and be able to dish it out. War Tralls can also stun with their rocks, but it isn't very reliable. A Shaper, Warrior, Socceross will want a few War Tralls in their pack. They are that powerful. A War Trall should not be used in Melee. Instead, keep them as close supporters to your font creations. Most enemies aren't strong against Physical damage. Gazers will be killed in particular. Other War Tralls are a problem, but than again you can bless and heal your Tralls, while you're enmies can't. Finally, there is the Shock Trall. A charged creation, the Shock Trall will die shortly after being made. It has lower health than a regular Trall. Fortunatly, this does not matter too much in the long run. With 12 Ap. a Shock Trall will get in a second attack most of the time. They even get a slight chance to stun their enemies. This, however, is pretty rare and not very reliable on its own. Their melee attack is pathetic, of course. Drakon's are weak against the constant pelting of a Shock Trall. Gazers die all to quickly. Other Shock Tralls won't come up much during the game, with the exception of the Sammann fight and those Thugish Tralls. Over all, Battle Shaping is an excellent branch of shaping, and certainly the strongest in terms of raw power. It is completely possible to have a pure-Battle Shaping playthrough. You can only be hit in a very small amount of places where you will have a lot of trouble. The Great Archon

Quote: Wait, what? You can easily (with just Leadership/Mechanics/Sneaking) get regular Kyshakks the moment you enter Mera-Tev, and Burning Kyshakks can be bought at Stormhold. You get them earlier than Drayks. You mean sneaking into the Secreat Labrotory and stealing the Kyshakk canister? That assumes that the player is willing to sit there and try stealth to sneak around the patrols and stationary serviles. Not to mention the Drakon and the loose Shredbug, that goes right for you, which is bad if you want to try stealth. I had to take this into account when I was making that. It is only fair, however, that I point it out. Excuse me a moment. The Great Archon

http://www.ironycentral.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=172598#Post172598 An Archonic Study of Fire Creations. The Great Archon

Originally Posted By: Upstar Firmament It does sound like you are playing more with freshly made creations than long-kept, levelled-up ones -- G5 favors the latter category pretty drastically. I generally replace creations after I ger access to better, improved ones after I enter a new area. I do keep them along for the ride for a while, but I keep getting overwhelmed, even when they are leveled with e from the Start. For instance, those Clawbugs had to go simply because they kept getting killed by all those magic-attacking creations in the Storm Planes. The Great Archon

Quote: Are you kidding? I kept my Cryoas up to the Dera Reaches, and they were still pulling their weight. On Torment?

Quote: but the same can be said of Battle Creations. I have to diagree. The only weak link in the Battle chain is the Battle Alpha, and even then it's a stretch. Quote: Of course not, it's your lowest level creation and is dirt cheap, which is why you make several. Fire damage is also nice in this game, because fire resistance isn't as prevalent as magic resistance. You seem to be misunderstanding the statement. My Lifecrafter who focused exclusivly on Fire Creations, pumping it as high as I could while still having an effective creation, still had weakish Fyora's. Even with Fire Shaping at 7 and Create Fyora at 3. Quote: Except it shoots ice, which makes it very useful./ Thank you The Great Archon

I've been playing the game a lot over the last few months. I've extensively pushed myself into playing this game over and over again, in an attempt to completely understand and have a strong amount of legitimacy in my findings and that my statements can be supported with an equally strong argument. I have literally played this game over and over again to the point where if I play Geneforge 5: Overthrow, on of Spiderwebs best games to date, I force myself to endure physical aliment. But nevertheless, I can finally start to bring out my information so it may hopefully be found to be useful. This is an Archonic study of the Fire Creations in Geneforge 5. Now, before I continue to a greater degree, I would like to point out three things. One. I have found that Fire Creations are the worst brand of Creations in the game. Two. This does not mean they are bad creations. This is something very important to take note of. It is completely possible to play through the game only using Fire Creations. I have done this. It's just harder to do than using the other creation branches. Three. This information that I am writing about is with the Torment player in mind. Meaning, when I say a creation sucks, it's because there are other creations that are better. I have tried to catch myself as I rewrote this, but it has certainly slipped pass some. Now that that's out of the way, let's get started. The first creation I will pull out is the Fyora. It attacks with Fire damage. The Fyora has seen some nerfing from the older games. A Fyora will not be able to hold it's own. It should be used as a support creation. Meaning, have one with a pack of thahds. This is pretty good. You will have more flexibility in battle, which is always useful. The Fyora also never runs out of Spell Energy, which is also greatly useful. This Fyora will be able to add the odd Fire support you will occasionally need. However, it can die very easily if you let it get caught in Melee, or even in the middle of a large battle. This means that you will have to be careful when using the Fyora; it can not be a reliable creation to hold the front. Therefore, this creation, while it has it's uses, will quickly lose it's usefulness after the Whitespires. The Cryoa is an upgrade of the Fyora. You can get this creation after you have reached level 3 of the Create Fyora skill. It is a range attack, similar to the Fyora. The main difference is that it hits it's enemies with stronger balls of Ice, has a higher base level, and more starting HP. This, for all intents and purposes, makes it a upgrade of the Fyora. For the beginning of the game (Whitespires and early Mera-Tev), the Cryoa will remain a powerful asset. It is possible to rely on Cryoa's during the Whitespires to completely shut down everything on the screen. Once you enter the Mera-Tev, however, you will begin to experience difficulties with the Cryoa. It is not strong enough to take more than a few hits. So, basically, you will want to replace the Cryoa for another creation. This really doesn't have anything to do with the creation's level, but rather with the creation itself. Even with my completely Fire Creation reliant Lifecrafter, who had Fire Shaping at level 10, the Cryoa's were still in danger of being overwhelmed in the game. While a good source of damage for the beginning of the game, the Cryoa will most probably not be able to keep up with the rest of the group, even small ones that a Warrior or a Guardian would have. Only make them for the occasional use when you meet a creation that is weak against Ice (The Clawbugs near the road to Kratoa-Kel, for example). Presuming you have a creation to keep fight in melee, of course. The next creation is the Roamer. Despite what you will come up against in-game (since all Roamers seem to engage you in Melee, despite them supposedly being able to attack you with Acid gulps), your Roamers will shoot your enemies with Acid bloops. This actually provides some uses for the Roamer. The acid rips away at your opponents health, which is always a plus. Another good thing is their moderate melee bight; I have observed my Roamers being able to survive in Melee, and being able to deliver the punch in Melee themselves. If absolutely necessary, they can be used as emergency Melee fighters. Only if necessary, however. That use for them is not the most effective. They are a bit too expensive for their worth, however. A Shaper, managing a pack, might consider having a Roamer instead of a Clawbug or Vlish. Warrior's (please note that that is a generic term. I include the Guardians to) would also have a spot for this creation. I found both to be useful in both kinds of groups. The Pyroroamer has sucked since the beginning of Geneforge 1, and still sucks today. They have no strategical use at all. Do not use them, except to perhaps amuse yourself. The Drayk is a solid creation. A powerful ranged Fire attack, a decent bite, and a relatively cheap price for what you're getting, it is quite possible to walk around with a pack of Drayks for at least part of the game. Glaahks and Battle Alpha will not be a problem for the Draky. Neither will Kyshakks in that one area with the farms, if you can get two or three on the Kyshakk at one time. The Drayk can hold it's own against a Podling one on one even, again, making it a very powerful companion. If you intend to have a Fire-oriented pack of creations, get a Drayk as soon as you can. Even if you are focusing on another brand of Shaping, a Drayk in your group will make some battles so much more smoother. Warriors will almost need a Drayk in their small pack of creations. There is really not much more to be said about this creation. Certainly nothing in a negative light. It is, however, very weak against Magic/Energy, so things like Wingbolts and Kyshakks will pose a problem with it. Wingbolts especially. The Cryodrayk, as the name suggests, is an upgrade of the Drayk. Instead of shooting Fire, it shoots Ice balls. The Cryodrayk is also an overall upgrade of the Drayk. They are very excellent when engaging middle-tier Magic creations, such as Glahhks or Wingbolts. They also can take a few tickles of damage and stand their ground, although not that much. Having a well-leveled Cryodrayk in your pack is a good idea for the long-run. Like Drayks, they are weak against Magic, so you should be careful when facing Magic attacking creations. Kyshakks are a personal favorite of mine, and are a solid creation. They attack with Essence Lances, delivering a strong attack at an enemy. The leftover damage will leave a lingering magic damage over your enemies. They have very high HP for a Fourth tier creation, and can act as a tank in battle. They can absorb other Magic attacks, but can also do fairly well against opponents that attack with physical damage. They are, however, very weak against Fire and Ice attacks. This makes Drayks, Cryodrayks, those Savage Cryoa's that crazy Rawal servile makes, ans such very dangerous. Being sure to keep your Kyshakk out of Melee and out of the way to those kinds of creations that fight in melee is a good tactic if you want your Kyshakks to stay alive. Putting them in the thicket of a fight is a bad idea; keeping them near the edge of the battle and have them pick off weak enemies and plug strong enemies with their lingering damage is a good idea. In other words, the Kyshakk is a support creation. Keep them in the back, and they'll pull their load. Burning Kyshakks are quite possibly one of the strongest creations in the game. When you get them (which is unfortunately late in the game by the time you are strong enough to get to the canister.) You can use stealth to retrive the canister at low levels, but that is only if you are willing to use stealth, which can be difficult for some players. They do a sickeningly huge amount of damage to an enemy. Throw in Elemental Shield, and they can make a Drakon cry. They are a burning creation, however (the only one in the Fire Shaping branch, actually), so they will only last a brief amount of time. In that brief amount of time, however, will be worth the essence. The Drakon is a good creation. It is, however, the worst of the 5th tier creations. With low resistances against Magic and ice, and okay resistance with Physical. This means that it's counterpart War Tralls will probably kill it, and Gazers will wipe the dirty ground with it. They should not be relied upon heavily; like many other Fire Creations, they are best served as back-of-the-line range critters. Not something you want at the front of the line with the other creations. The Ur-Drakon. I will say write now that I do not fully understand it's capabilities. You can literally only get it during the last area for Loyalist/Trakovite factions, and are inaccessible for Rebel players. This leave little and few fights for one to test it against. From my brief testing, however, I have concluded that the Ur-Drakon is a very strong creation that can hold its own and wipe the floor with most creations. It has a stronger Fire attack, very resistant to magic attacks, and a lingering lightning attack not unlike the Kyshakk. By the time you get it, however, you will probably not need it. (Battle Shaping and Magic Shaping are coming, respectively. A Shock Trooper guide and an Agent/Infiltrator guide are also coming. And I did not forget about that item-set up for the Warrior/Guardian.) The Great Archon

Nope. Sorry. That whole island system is a pain in the lower corner. The Great Archon

It won't affect your playing experience, but your ending will be drasitcly altered if you use to many canisters and are a loyalist. The Shapers will still train you, but they can only train you up to the 4th tier (Wingbolts, Rotghroths, and Kyshakks) of creations. In order to get the 5th tier creations (Drakons, War Tralls, and Gazers), you will have to use canisters. Spells don't count for this, since the rebel trainer will train you no matter what your alignment. Should you? Like I said before, they will give you access to the best creations, and the upgraded creations. You need to know 3 points in a creation to get the upgraded version of it. Aside from the Fyora, you will have to use canisters to get the ability to Shape them. If you use canisters, however, your ending, if you're a loyalist, will be massivly altered, and really won't be that good. If you're playing a rebel, it won't matter. You will also have to get into fights more. From a moral perspectice, canisters shape the sanity out of you in exchange for power, which is something that can only be answered by yourself. Personally, I use them anyway. I feel it's worth the price for power. The Great Archon

If you keep using canisters you'll eventually start getting into fights you would have otherwise has the option to avoid it. It will also appear in people's dialog that you're using canisters. If you've already you've 6, it's to late. And yes, it's an effect of using the canisters. The Great Archon

Quote: What kind of an idiot doesn't alpha test? Quote: Next time I'm not testing on my own. This is where they were getting that idea from. The Great Archon

I'll volunteer. After this, prepare to fall, for I shall wrap this up with da best scenario evar!!!