Nioca

Guess what? The Session 4 log is now available! Read up on the longest session of Zombies 2 to date! It comes with quotes, too! Click to reveal.. (It's hopeless to make it through all these quotes!) Mario: "I dunno, seems like we're screwed no matter what, we just get to pick what kind of screwed." (Nioca): (Can someone call tech support and reboot this zombie, please?) Nathan: "No no no, the light I mean. Could it be valuable?" Larry: "With our luck? Probably some hick with a hunting rifle taking potshots at survivors. Or, you know, multiple hicks." Nathan: "Anyone here good with a gun? Oh, what am I saying? Of course none of you are good with a gun. How about this: anyone here promise not to shoot me if I give you one?" ZM: Larry knees the zombie in the nards, but learns that with great decay comes greater pain tolerance. (Nalyd): (So we only win when they inexplicably decide not to attack us?) Tocmetone: "This place is more desolate than a public shcool." (Lilith): (You just kicked a guy so hard that loot came out of him.) Ben: "I say we raid lone farms or ranches, hit small towns. Not a city that could hold over a million zombies. But then I want to live so I just my be the crazy one here."

3 Hours until the next session (or however much time is on the counter below, depending on when you read this).

Originally Posted By: Lilith Originally Posted By: Nioca Switching gears here, one thing I've tried out and am liking thusfar is doing DM rolls right in the main chat window. Maybe I'll try it out for the next ATCT and see how it goes. If there's combat next session, that is. If I may offer a suggestion: Keep a dice roller on hand in case you do need to make a roll in private (like, say, an enemy or NPC making a stealth roll). This also helps if your players want to make a roll without the rest of the group knowing (though this usually doesn't come up too often).

Originally Posted By: Dantius I'm terribly sorry I missed this. I've been so swamped by work right now it's not even funny. I can't promise I'll be able to attend with any sort of regularity for the next while, so it's probably better if I just drop out and take a leave of absence from SW for a while. Sorry to let you guys down. If anybody wants my character, he's yours. Alright. Thank you for letting me know, and for your gracious decision. I'll probably just put Mario on a bus for the time being, so he can return at a later date when real life lessens your workload. Okay. Sanity dictates that I should use this opportunity to reduce the party down to a more manageable five. But this is Spiderweb, and I left my sanity at the door a long time ago. As such, there is now one slot open for a new character. To apply, first make sure that you can regularly make either Saturday or Sunday Evenings, 7:00 PM EST. Then, simply PM me with a new character at Level 3, preferably with at least a partial backstory and inventory. As when the campaign started, characters from the original Zombies! campaign are eligible. Sign-ups close on Saturday the 26th, at 6:00 PM EST. At that time, the entrant will be randomly chosen*, and the new character will join the party in the early parts of next session. Also, yes, I'm working on the log, and it should be up either tonight or tomorrow. *Or, at least, I'll roll a die to determine who gets in. As any AIMHacker can tell you, that doesn't necessarily mean its random, since the RNG can be a malicious being at times.

Haven't been watching much in the way of films. At all. Mostly just films that happen to come on the TV. As for television, there's only three shows I watch on a regular basis: NCIS, NCIS:LA, and Person of Interest. Sometimes The Big Bang Theory as well, but that's only on a semi-regular basis. (Also, there's late-night runs of Stargate Atlantis going on the weekends, which I've been watching as well).

Hey, look, it's one of those nifty little counter things.

Quote: Quote: While I think that AIMhack's opaque mechanics are a plus, both for teaching purposes and for putting more focus on roleplay, I still would like an SRD, or something like it, accessible somewhere. As Nioca said, this would be less for players and more for GMs. I'm sure everyone who's GMed a game has been e-mailing each other about stuff, but some kind of central document (or documents, as the system is constantly changing) would be nice. On the other hand, writing out such documents would take a fair amount of time. For the next campaign I run, I'll probably make a comprehensive document listing all the rules I use and put it up on my webspace. If nothing else, it'll help keep me honest. Yeah, I'm probably going to make a rules sheet regarding both the base Lazarus rules of zombies AND the changes I've been making available on my site. But that's one of about 7 different Zombies-related projects going on right now. ----- Switching gears here, one thing I've tried out and am liking thusfar is doing DM rolls right in the main chat window. It hasn't hampered player enjoyment at all as far as I can tell, has actually ramped up tension a few times since I started doing it, and suppresses the urge to pull punches or fudge die rolls for the player's benefit. Plus, if you've got the roll command memorized, it's a lot faster and easier than switching back and forth between the AIM windows, character sheets, and die roller ad nauseum.

Originally Posted By: Excalibur Question: Quick Draw says it gives a first shot when negotiations break down. When does that actually come into play? Good question. Basically, if negotiations fall apart and the enemy acts first, Tocmetone gets one free attack before the enemy gets to take her turn. If the party acts first, her attack goes off before anyone else's. Last session, it got a little wonky because, despite Mario grappling the enemy leader (you still don't know his name, btw), the negotiations hadn't completely broken down yet; it basically went from a stand-off to a hostage negotiation. When the leader broke free, it was technically right in the middle of the party's turn; Quick Draw came into play, but you had already taken a Defensive Stance that round. ----- In other news, Larry earned this perk last session! Piñata-Fu "You just kicked a guy so hard that loot came out of him." - Lilith -Critical attack rolls will cause the target to drop one random item out of their inventory. This can include equipped weapons or armor. -Other critical successes may also cause incidental loot drops. There may be another perk as well. I'll know for certain once I've done the log.

Okay, everyone survived, and EVERYONE LEVELS UP! Same as usual, but this time, you get a new feat as well! And there's the possibility a couple perks might get handed out as well... Next session is tenatively scheduled for December 4th. Oh, yeah, one more thing. Dantius was absent for this session (again). This is normally just irksome, but real life happens. However, not only was he not present, but he failed to give any notice what-so-ever that he was not going to show up. Consider yourself on notice. I will tolerate a complete no-show with no warning ONCE. If it happens again, Mario is either getting taken over permanently by a willing sub, or killed off and replaced by a new character. (Many thanks to Lilith, who subbed for him for the entire session)

*trouble post* First off, the log of Session 2 - The Apache is now done. As is, in fact, the log of Session 3 - The Storm. And this one comes with quotes! Click to reveal.. (It's a veritable downpour of quotes!) (Excalibur): (You invoke the power of Shiva and somehow conjure additional gasoline) ZM: Nathan pulls out and, turning on the lights and hitting the wipers, starts the truck south towards destinations unknown. (Excalibur): (That only took two hours ) Ben: "How about we just drive past these zombies? Cause unlike you all I don't find fighting them to be fun. I really find it to be a horrible business." Tocmetone: "Well we can't just sit here and listen to the creatures' percussion." Ben: "Why not?" (Sylae): (Next session: Mario wakes up to find the rest of the party has fumbled themselves to death) Larry: "Hey Nathan... You're driving sucks." Nathan: "So does your aim, but you don't hear me complaining." Gordon: "Come on! There weren't nearly as many crashes back when there were other drivers on the road!" Larry: "I'd just like to mention that I was on the 'not stop and get eaten' side of the debate." And the session's still on for tomorrow. See Sylae's nifty counter thingy above for the exact time. Or just look at it right below this sentence.

...I probably need to quit slacking on the logs, eh? I'll get them up by tonight (or maybe very very early tomorrow morning, depending on your timezone).

Originally Posted By: Lilith Originally Posted By: Nioca With levels, you know ahead of time what you're handing out. A stat point and a predefined amount of XP. You only have to ask yourself one yes/no question: Has the party earned a level? I guess the issue for me is that I feel guilty about saying no to that question, leading me to give out more levels than I otherwise would (to the point where Triumph actually complained that we were levelling up too fast in CoH). I don't feel guilty about giving 8 skill points instead of 12. If we really want to remove arbitrariness from the system, we should probably have some kind of fixed guideline on how fast characters should level up. I'm not sure we want to remove arbitrariness that badly, though. True, and I know I can feel a bit guilty about not handing out a level at times. Personally, I also wind up feeling guilty when giving them TOO much power or leveling too often, because it removes that nice sense of achievement that comes with a new level. Regarding arbitrariness, I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing to have things a bit arbitrary. I just think it's too hard to try and keep a decent and balanced progression when you're handing out numbers strictly based on how The DM thinks the party is doing. Quote: Quote: Put another way, try swapping out Amadan's archery skill for skill in, say, Swords. He'd have 30 HP (only a few HP short of the main tanks), would hit only slightly less often and would be hit only slightly more often than the mainline tanks. Oh, and he'd still have the ability to use his magic spells, disintegrating things from afar, healing, teleporting, and so forth, plus alchemy. Suddenly, that extra 10% damage doesn't look nearly so hot. Under the skills-only system, the only limiting factor is XP. Considering how skills start hitting a severe case of diminishing returns as they go up, hybrid characters become practical. The problem is, these same hybrid characters can go on to outclass straight specialists, simply because they have a lot of extra firepower and/or durability. In short, this system doesn't just avoid penalizing hybrid characters. It outright showers them in gold and happy rainbow kittens. I have a different perspective. In general, being able to do one thing very well is inherently better than being able to do multiple things slightly less well. This is especially true in combat when you're limited to doing one thing at a time, and also especially true when you're a member of a party that can do those other things for you when you need them. You're theoretically correct. In practice, however, versatility is a lot more powerful than you give it credit for. Breaking it down: In general, being able to do one thing very well is inherently better than being able to do multiple things slightly less well. In a straight fight, sure. A specialized swordsman is likely to win against a hybrid swordsman. However, a hybrid swordsman simply going sword-to-sword with a superior opponent misses the point of why he's a hybrid swordsman in the first place. He's got an arsenal of magic at his command, after all, and a specialized swordsman's better skill means exactly nothing if... -all his attacks come back on him (Abjuration's Ruby Armor) -he's entangled and ensnared (Conjuration's entangling spell) -the hybrid is getting an foresight-driven edge (Divination) -he can't even see the hybrid, or has been mentally compromised (Enchantment's Shrewd Disappearance and Agony Seed, respectively) -simply being near the hybrid inflicts damage (Evocation's Unconquered Sun) -the hybrid can teleport away whenever he gets close (Transmutation's Hunter's Jump) -he gets hit with DoT damage and debuffs before he can even close (Vitaemancy's Sanguine Corruption) This is especially true in combat when you're limited to doing one thing at a time... While you can obviously do only one thing at a time (usually), having a wide array of options available can make the difference between a wounded character and a dead one. Let's look at Amadan again. If he was a dedicated archer, he'd have better accuracy and, by extension, better damage output (though hitting things hasn't actually been an issue thusfar anyway ). He'd also be completely screwed whenever something came along which arrows were impractical against (something incorporeal or with high Physical DR). As it is, he instead has five different avenues of attack (Archery, Fire, Disintegration, Alchemy, Melee), which enables him to adapt to different challenges easier than a specialized character ever could. Which has kinda come in handy, seeing as hitting a wasp-sized target with arrows is somewhat impractical. ...and also especially true when you're a member of a party that can do those other things for you when you need them. Again, sound in theory, not so sound in practice. Having a party where no one else can cover the others' stations turns it into a party of lynchpins; if a vital role goes down and there's no one else to cover that role, things can go downhill fast (wink wink nudge nudge, Z2 "FA's a dumpskill" Party ). Redundancy across vital roles is a good thing. Quote: That's why diminishing returns on skill point investment exist in the first place. (Incidentally, the skill system's diminishing returns don't work quite the way you might expect: they're actually more severe at low to medium levels than they are at high levels. But that topic deserves a whole post in itself.) That's a post I'd really like to see. Quote: I'll admit that I do want to actively encourage a certain level of hybridisation, because I think hybrid characters are more interesting. Preaching to the choir here; My first character was a battlemage, and the only specialized character I've had was Mal Travers, a focused swordsman. I definitely think the hybrids are more interesting. It's just... Quote: So if a hybrid character ends up better off than a specialist, I'm fine with that. ...that I think there should be a trade-off for the versatility provided. I'm of the opinion that a hybrid character should balance with a specialized character, rather than completely upstaging them. Quote: Quote: For the record, I'm growing fond of Lazarus's zombie system. Combat skills are based off of base statistics and feats. I'd want to tweak it something fierce, but I like the way it separates the basic survival from the non-combat skills. Yeah, some kind of separation of combat from non-combat skills at character creation is looking increasingly necessary. I'm drafting up some thoughts to that end at the moment. Really, the problem is that comparing combat to skill challenges is like comparing apples to oranges. Sure, it can be done, but it's better to just separate the apples and oranges and enjoy them both for what they are. No, I don't know where I was going with that metaphor either.

Originally Posted By: Structualise THIS! My overall thoughts are that I feel like I've just let everybody involved down. I said to a few people I prefer playing to DMing, and I think that's true, but I do think that, to an extent, a lot of that is not feeling that I've delivered great sessions, and therefore didn't get that sense of accomplishment that we get as players. The story needed to be watertight, and it wasn't, and my assumptions from the players were far greater than they should've been, considering I was basing the assumptions on things I hadn't made clear to them. I think it's more the simple matter that, for your first campaign, you just wound up biting off a lot more than you could chew. DMing isn't an easy task; you've got to herd 4-7 characters that each have a mind of their own through exciting adventures, giving them a challenge while at the same time playing fair. When you add in the challenges of running a plot as complicated as this one... yeah, it becomes rather impressive that you did this well.

Originally Posted By: Lilith Quote: Yes, the levels are arbitrary, but simply handing out skill points feels more arbitrary than the levels ever did. Can you elaborate on this? With levels, you know ahead of time what you're handing out. A stat point and a predefined amount of XP. You only have to ask yourself one yes/no question: Has the party earned a level? With XP only, you have to evaluate how much they earned each session. How much is burning down a tavern worth? 2 XP? 4 XP? What about fighting off a swarm of wasps, is that a couple XP right there? Basically, you have to try and put a value tag on the party's progress. Both processes are pretty arbitrary, but trying to actually put a value the party's progress seems more arbitrary to me than just rewarding them with a level now and then. Quote: Quote: Additionally, compensating for the lack of attributes has actually made the system more complicated, not less; instead of having a single attribute tied to health, you've got three skills that have to be calculated differently depending on which skill is stronger. Instead of having some skill points and a few attribute points, you've got a whole crapload of skill points to spread across several skills. Defense? It's based on Skills A, B, or C, but with an ill-defined synergy bonus from having two or all three, not counting what armor might do. The way I'm handling synergy bonuses at the moment is that you get a +1 bonus if the total skill point investment in all synergy skills is at least half the skill point investment in the highest skill, and a +2 bonus if it's equal to or greater than the investment in the highest skill. Yes, this is unnecessarily complicated and a pain to work out. I agree that more mechanical transparency is desirable, but not to put too fine a point on it, a lot of AIMhack players don't seem to care very much about the mechanics underlying their abilities anyway, and complicated equations scare people off. Ultimately the solution to this is to have mechanics that don't require complicated equations, but oh well. Yeah, underlying mechanics usually isn't a major issue with the players we have now. I still think it's important to make sure everything runs logically and smoothly under the hood, though, because while it may not matter much to the players, you can bet money that it'll matter to anyone who tries to DM the system. Quote: Quote: In addition, the system, as it currently stands, can be min-maxed to rather horrific effect. Melee skill is now basically a 'win' button for combat, by providing health, defense, AND attack power in one skill. Magic is still as strong as ever, but thanks to the fact that it's now based on the skill system, it's rather trivial to advance both melee and magic together without losing a whole lot from either. Even without min-maxing, it can create some rather alarming power disparities which can be hard to balance for. In a way, this is something the attributes did better; barring major minmaxing (or multiple bad decisions on a player's part), it was hard to actually create a massive power disparity (aside from the weird HP system). I can't totally disagree with this. The way defences work in particular under the ATCT system does still feel hacky and unbalanced to me. Then again, it's hacky and unbalanced in the attribute-based system too. I'm not convinced that the new system as a whole is more prone to over-optimisation than the old one: a pure mage in the level/attribute system was certainly no less powerful than in the ATCT system. And as far as it being easy to be fairly good at both melee and magic... that's a feature rather than a bug, as far as I'm concerned, and hybrid characters do still end up a little behind for the same investment. Keep in mind that a +2 difference in a skill is actually pretty big: if you go from hitting 50% of the time to 60% of the time, you've increased your damage output per round by 20%. The catch is that, in the old attribute system, there were penalties for making a hybrid character; it was a trade-off, gaining versatility at the price of major competence in either. Under the skills-only system, however, the gain from being merely 'good' in both far outstrips the cost. Put another way, try swapping out Amadan's archery skill for skill in, say, Swords. He'd have 30 HP (only a few HP short of the main tanks), would hit only slightly less often and would be hit only slightly more often than the mainline tanks. Oh, and he'd still have the ability to use his magic spells, disintegrating things from afar, healing, teleporting, and so forth, plus alchemy. Suddenly, that extra 10% damage doesn't look nearly so hot. Under the skills-only system, the only limiting factor is XP. Considering how skills start hitting a severe case of diminishing returns as they go up, hybrid characters become practical. The problem is, these same hybrid characters can go on to outclass straight specialists, simply because they have a lot of extra firepower and/or durability. In short, this system doesn't just avoid penalizing hybrid characters. It outright showers them in gold and happy rainbow kittens. Quote: I think for some future campaign I really am just going to have to bite the bullet and have everyone designate a primary combat skill that levels up at a predefined rate, if I'm serious about keeping everyone roughly equally combat-effective without implementing a full-on class system. I'm not very happy about the prospect, though. For the record, I'm growing fond of Lazarus's zombie system. Combat skills are based off of base statistics and feats. I'd want to tweak it something fierce, but I like the way it separates the basic survival from the non-combat skills.

With EoD wrapped up, there's a couple things I'd like to post observations about. ----- Characters and Expectations One thing that definitely comes to mind is what's expected of characters. The player, the rest of the party, and the DM all have their own expectations of each character, dependent on how the character is initially presented and evolving as that character is played. This is neither good nor bad; it just helps define each player's role in the party. Naturally, when you've got several different sets of eyes examining the same character, different expectations crop up. Furthermore, the expectations of everyone, including the player, can change as the character is played. This can lead to moments that seem perfectly in-character to the player, but out of left field to the party or DM. Again, not necessarily good or bad; shaking up or defying the expectations of the party or DM can be important for character development of both the player's character and those around him/her. Especially interesting is when a player defies their own expectations because of in-universe events (which can again lead to character development). Of course, there's a difference between shaking up expectations and creating false ones. It's one thing if a veritable paladin of virtue has a fall from grace, but quite another if said virtuous paladin defaults to punting puppies into orphanages he's set on fire. While the player is obviously the master of his/her own character, the expectations he/she creates for the party and DM should at mesh somewhat with how he/she intends to portray him/her. Additionally, another thing I've noticed is that it's generally a bad idea for the DM to rely on what he/she expects a character to do, both because the DM's expectations may lead him/her astray, AND because the character might act in defiance of expectation. At best, this can result in events being derailed, and at worst, it can cause disappointment and frustration on both sides. ----- Ephesian System vs. Lilithian System: Fight! As you may be aware, Lilith's trying out a purely skill-based system for AtCT. While I obviously can't speak for everyone, my opinions on this are mixed. On one hand, the skill point system does remove the attributes. It also allows for a greater degree of customization. And, of course, it does work. However, I don't think it works quite as well as having more clearly defined levels and attributes. Yes, the levels are arbitrary, but simply handing out skill points feels more arbitrary than the levels ever did. Additionally, compensating for the lack of attributes has actually made the system more complicated, not less; instead of having a single attribute tied to health, you've got three skills that have to be calculated differently depending on which skill is stronger. Instead of having some skill points and a few attribute points, you've got a whole crapload of skill points to spread across several skills. Defense? It's based on Skills A, B, or C, but with an ill-defined synergy bonus from having two or all three, not counting what armor might do. Plus, now you have Athletics and Acrobatics, which are basically just STR and DEX in a skill-flavored coating. In addition, the system, as it currently stands, can be min-maxed to rather horrific effect. Melee skill is now basically a 'win' button for combat, by providing health, defense, AND attack power in one skill. Magic is still as strong as ever, but thanks to the fact that it's now based on the skill system, it's rather trivial to advance both melee and magic together without losing a whole lot from either. Even without min-maxing, it can create some rather alarming power disparities which can be hard to balance for. In a way, this is something the attributes did better; barring major minmaxing (or multiple bad decisions on a player's part), it was hard to actually create a massive power disparity (aside from the weird HP system). On top of that, you have to level the character up every. single. session. Makes it feel less like a reward, and more like general housekeeping. But maybe that one's just me. ----- There's a couple more things I want to comment on, but I want to get this post out the door sometime this century.

Yes, however... Originally Posted By: Session 3 Afterlog (12:57:23 AM) Sarachim: In fact, I bet I'd have had an emotional reaction to the hanging if Nikki hadn't spoiled it before the session, because then I would have been surprised. (12:57:27 AM) Nalyd: The hanging worked, and very well, but was by nature an "Aw, man." moment. (12:57:54 AM) Nikki: actually, i intended somebody to actually die (12:57:59 AM) Nikki: i told dinti this (12:58:01 AM) Lilith: Who? (12:58:03 AM) Nalyd: Which, I mean, is what a hanging is for. (12:58:08 AM) Dintiradan: Yep, I can attest. (12:58:27 AM) Nalyd: Really? You couldn't have foreseen my ill-fated party-splitting. (12:58:30 AM) Dintiradan: Of course, I wasn't watching for half the session. (12:58:31 AM) Nalyd: How? (12:58:41 AM) Dintiradan: Did someone die? ;-p (12:58:46 AM) Nalyd: Almost. (12:58:52 AM) Lilith: Only an NPC, which doesn't count. (12:58:59 AM) Nikki: Yeah, no, it was one of you. (12:59:09 AM) Nioca: Who? (12:59:10 AM) Nikki: But I won't ruin it, I'll save it for later. (12:59:24 AM) Nalyd: You're horribly cruel.

I was re-reading the thread, and I noticed this: Originally Posted By: Nikki Reminder: it's about 2 hours until Session 3, and I'm going to do something no other DM has managed - I'm going to GUARANTEE the death of a party member. Well, I can't help but notice that all of the PCs made it through alive. What gives?

Originally Posted By: Structualise THIS! Sure, I know what you're saying, but Cassandra already knows to send them back because otherwise why is she there in the first place? ... *headdesk* Okay, I think I'm done banging my head against this brick wall. Anyone else want to take it up?

Originally Posted By: Structualise THIS! ...but Cassandra sending the party back does make sense, even though, like Garland, she creates a paradox to do so. Does that help anybody, or does it make it all worse? Gah. Okay, let me try to put it in a format you might be more familiar with. Code: //Avernumscript!variables;int x = 0; // Our first iteration. Everything's a blank slate.beginstate 10; //Party fights witch //Insert witch-fight code here if (x = 1) //If Cassandra knows to come back. set_state_continue(11); //Cassandra rescues the party from certain death. else kill_char(1000,0,0); //Else, E'lessra does not fall, everyone dies.end;beginstate 11; //Cassandra goes back to rescue party //Party explains what happens to Cassandra, asks for help x = 1; //Cassandra now knows she needs to go back. set_state_continue(10); //And so back she goes.end; Now, what would happen if you ran that code (other than likely crashing BoA because it's been a really long time since I've written AScript)? Obviously, the code would terminate in a total party kill. State 11 is triggered by State 10, but State 10 only triggers State 11 if State 11 has already been previously triggered. Since State 11 has not been triggered previously, it does not trigger now, and the party dies a possibly horrible death. Make sense now?

Originally Posted By: Lilith Originally Posted By: Nioca [blah blah internal logic blah blah plot hole rage blah blah blah] The way I read things, the plot seemed to imply that we didn't start the campaign anywhere near the first iteration of the loop, so we don't actually know that the party got killed the first time around or exactly how or why they originally asked for intervention. Fair point, though the party meeting Cassandra through more mundane circumstances seems unlikely; They had life spans at least as long as normal mortals, if not longer, so barring a freak occurance of the four in the middle getting cut down in rapid sequence, the party would have died of old age before ever meeting her. And seeing as the three ways to time travel we saw (Deliberate witch intervention, use of the diary, universal BSoD) were not applicable in that situation... I dunno. Maybe it's just me bothered by it, in which case I'll drop it.

Hey, there's another reason to buy direct from SW! More seriously, though, yikes. Glad I'm not on Steam.

Originally Posted By: Lilith Originally Posted By: Dintiradan In general, you've got to suspend disbelief for the things that are required by the premise of a work of fiction (there's probably a trope for this -- Diki?). this one maybe (warning: is tvtropes, causes cancer) so yeah maybe complaining about the premise of the campaign is a little harsh (although the fact that it's a hard premise to do right is worth keeping in mind before you decide to do it), but everything else is fair game i think I think you missed my point. I wasn't complaining about the premise of having a magic time loop. I was pointing out that by the internal logic of the campaign, this particular time loop should have collapsed on itself before it ever began. It was established in-story that the party couldn't time travel without Cassandra's help (or help of the diary), but also established in-story that Cassandra only intervened because the party asked her to do so years in the future, long after the party had been killed. In short, I'm not going after the premise, I'm going after an inconsistency inside the premise. If the party had been sent forward because of, say, a mishap with E'lessra's killing spell or Cassandra deciding to come back for her own reasons, I wouldn't be raising this as an issue. I'll admit that I tend to be rather critical of any plot that involves time travel. I'll also admit that holes like this can usually be handwaved away (like saying, "Oh, it's just broken time"). However, when one of the main underlying points throughout the whole campaign is to piece together the plot from the clues given, you should not have holes in the plot and/or premise that renders the whole thing an exercise in futility. (Not to say that having a campaign where the plot is basically one long exercise in futility would be a bad thing, but it'd have to be handled very, very carefully.)

Leveling up Rayton. I'll be editing in his whole character sheet once I get a new archery technique approved. Also, since it's been a while, this is a sheet with everything except backstory. As a warning, it's huge. And as a note to self, my next character is going to be limited to 2 different martial/magical/alchemical skills. Click to reveal.. (Amadan Rayton, XP-160) AMADAN RAYTON Exhausted Pragmatic Male Human Alchemical Hunter of Liea HEALTH: 18/25 (+1) STAMINA: 02/10 SKILL POINTS: 002/160 Missile (Archery): 9 (45) [+1] Magic (Transmutation): 7 (28) Alchemy: 5 (15) Perception: 5+1 (15) [+1] Stealth: 4+1 (10) Nature: 4 (10) Acrobatics: 4 (10) Arcana: 4 (10) Melee (Knives): 3 (6) Artifice: 3 (6) Athletics: 2 (3) HUMAN SURVIVAL (RACIAL) - You receive a +1 bonus to Perception checks, and also to STEALTH. You can make checks to Stealth, Athletics or Acrobatics as if trained. LIEA'S BLESSING (PERK) - In the Bloodmarsh, whilst fighting the cultists of Yunelias, Amadan inadvertently forged a deeper connection with Liea. All fire-based attacks gain a +2 bonus to accuracy. NEGATIVE ANIMAL MAGNETISM (WEAKNESS) - Animals are inherently drawn to Amadan, mainly for the express purpose of trying to maul him. In combat, animals have an elevated chance of targeting Amadan, and animals that cross Amadan's path, whether wild or domesticated, have a small chance of going inexplicably hostile and attacking Amadan on sight. Click to reveal.. (Transmutational Spells (4+2)) Energetic Arrow: Charges an arrow with energy on launch, which effects the way it behaves. Requires a Move-Action or 1STM to cast, and will always consume 1 arrow. -Fire Arrow: Can burn through armor or hard surfaces that normal arrows can't, partially bypassing DR and armor. Can easily ignite flammable substances and materials. -Light Arrow: Partially transmutes the arrow into a bolt of light; the arrow flies faster and further, providing an accuracy and range bonus, and does increased damage to undead and incorporeal beings. Also makes a good signaling arrow. -Electric Arrow: Electrocutes whatever it impacts, causing a penalty to actions and potentially stunning the target. Can also send an electrical jolt into liquids or metals. -Impact Arrow: Strikes with abnormal force and momentum, doing additional damage and knocking the target back or down. Ameliorate: Seamlessly mends a damaged or broken object, or heals a wounded being. Requires being adjacent to the target. Casting on a creature costs 1STM. Hunter's Jump: Teleports the caster and anything he's carrying to a location within his Line of Sight. Anything longer than a short hop requires stamina, the amount depending on distance and any heavy loads the caster is carrying. Detrimentum: Disintegrates a targeted creature or object. Pyrokinesis: Takes control of fire, bending it to the caster's will. The caster can move, intensify, shape, or put out targeted flames. Bigger and more complicated tasks cost stamina, and the more fire that's available for the caster to use, the greater the chance of success. Magical flames are harder to manipulate than mundane ones, and are more likely to cost stamina. Basilisk's Gaze: Turns the targeted object (regardless of composition) to stone. Living (or unliving) creatures require 1 stamina to petrify and get a save versus the effect; after the spell elapses, the target reverts to its original composition unharmed. Click to reveal.. (Archery Techniques (5)) Shoot From the Shadows: You time your attacks so that your opponents cannot pinpoint their origins. Attack as normal, but make an additional Stealth check. If successful, you do not lose concealment. Arterial Break (1STM): An attack at a -2 penalty that attempts to strike and sever a major blood vessel within the target. If successful, the target will bleed, taking minor damage each round until the wound is healed or treated. Note that this technique only works if the target actually needs blood of some sort and the attacker has some idea of where to strike. (Particularly nasty if coupled with Bloodlet Toxin) Sniper's Garrote (1STM): Takes careful aim and fires a shot at the target's throat. A successful hit will puncture the windpipe, preventing or strongly inhibiting the victim from casting spells, speaking, or using breath weapons until the arrow is removed and the wound healed. Useful for putting a spellcaster out of action or preventing a foe from sounding an alarm. Requires that the creature has a throat or similar portion of anatomy, and inflicts a -4 penalty to hit due to the shot's difficulty. Take Aim (1STM): Spends a full round observing a target and setting up a shot at its vitals; Amadan may not move, attack or use items during the round he spends taking aim. If he fires at his target in the following round, his attack has a bonus to hit and inflicts triple damage. Truefire (FRAct-or-1STM): Utilizes skills, intuition, and perceptive abilities, enabling one to lock onto and shoot a specified target even if the character (or player) can't tell where the target is located, without taking concealment penalties. The character still needs to have a reasonably clear shot, and firing with someone downrange increases friendly fire risk. Click to reveal.. (Knife Techniques (2)) Flick Step: Does a quick slash or jab at a sensitive area with a melee weapon; if it connects, it briefly staggers the opponent, enabling the character to disengage and move away that turn without provoking an AoO. Disarm: Knocks an enemy's weapon out of its grasp. Does no damage. Dictating where it goes requires a strong roll/stamina. Click to reveal.. (Alchemical Recipes) PRIMARY RECIPES (1 REAGENT) Healing Tonic (Water) – Heals 6 HP when drunk. Hawkeye Brew (Air) – A lightweight and simple brew that temporarily improves one's eyesight, providing a +3 Perception and an ancillary +1 Missile Weapons for 30 minutes. Alchemical Fire (Fire) – Catches fire when exposed to air. Stamina Potion (Earth) – Recovers 3 STM. Aerolyzer (Air) – A clear liquid that, when mixed with a potion, poison, or other liquid, renders it aerosol. This reduces its potency, but enables the effect to be spread across a moderate area-of-effect. Note that this does not work on all potions (and is just a generally bad idea with others). SECONDARY RECIPES (2 REAGENTS) Kath Inhibitor (Earth + Fire) – The smoky-clear Kath Inhibitor is a simple and effective antidote, capable of curing a wide variety of mild-to-moderate poisons and toxins, and inhibiting the effects of stronger toxins. If you are pregnant or may become pregnant, contact a certified healer before taking. Potion of Defensive Insight (Air + Earth) - This thin grey brew enhances the imbiber's self-preservation instincts and reflexes, providing a +2 bonus to physical/magical defenses and saves. While active, if the imbiber takes a hit that would knock him to-or-below 0 HP, this potion enables the character to partially avoid the hit, stablizing at 1 HP. This also terminates the potion's effects. Side-effects include mild paranoia and a sense of impending doom. Paralytic (Air + Fire) - This slimy violet poison causes the victim's muscles to freeze up, forcing a save. If the victim passes, it takes a penalty to-act for a short time. If the victim fails, they're paralyzed for a few rounds. Can be imbibed or absorbed through an open wound. Bloodlet Toxin (Fire + Water) - This poison acts as an anticoagulant, causing even minor wounds to bleed profusely. Those affected by this poison take more damage from any attack or harm that draws blood until the toxin is purged. Primal Philter (Earth + Fire) – This red translucent potion shuts down the higher functions of the mind and taps into the imbiber's primal instincts; the drinker gains large bonuses to fighting unarmed or with natural weapons (teeth, claws, breath) and small bonuses to all other forms of mundane combat. However, until the potion wears off, spellcasting, complex combat techniques, composure, and anything beyond basic knowledge all take heavy penalties. The effects last 30 minutes. TERTIARY RECIPES (3 REAGENTS) Sunder Mist (Air + Fire + Water) – This potent brown potion turns into mist on contact with air, eroding and sundering most woods and metals within a 6-space radius of where the potion was opened (or thrown). Magical items and objects are immune to the mist's effects. Explosive (Air + Earth + Fire) - A thick greasy paste that explodes when struck violently, producing little heat but immense concussive force. Aural Ether (Air + Earth + Water) – This potion brings the drinker in tune with the magical world. They can more easily spot the presence of magic, and can detect and identify the magical auras of items, enchanted areas, and creatures for the time the potion is in effect. Lasts roughly 30 minutes. Syrup of Stickiness (Earth + Fire + Water) – This sticky syrup can either be ingested or applied to objects. When ingested, it causes the imbiber to become incredibly sticky, enabling them to keep a far stronger hold on objects and creatures, and improve their ability at climbing, keeping one's balance, or any feat in which stickiness might be helpful for roughly 1 hour. When applied to an object, it causes that object to stick with incredible force to the next person who touches it. The drawbacks should be obvious, and Liea have mercy if this is combined with an Aerolyzer. Wardwater (Earth + Fire + Water) – When drunk, provides strong protection versus magical attacks. It provides defensive and save bonuses versus magical attacks, spells, and auras. It also provides damage and effect resistance versus instant-hit spells (such as curses, scrying, and some attack spells). Lasts 15 minutes. Click to reveal.. (Inventory) WEALTH - 0 Gold, 11 Silvers, 17 Coppers (TOTAL – 0.27) EQUIPPED/WORN Ricochet Bow – A magical bow etched with transmutational runes. Provides a flat +1 accuracy bonus. Upon missing, a second d20 is rolled; a roll above a 15 ricochets towards the nearest logical foe with the amount above 15 added to-hit. A roll below 6 ricochets towards the nearest logical ally with the amount below 6 added to-hit. Anything between misses as normal. Quiver – A standard quiver for holding arrows. ____18x Wood Arrows – Standard, cheap arrows that can be whittled from long sticks. ____0x Iron Arrows – Well-crafted iron-tipped arrows. +1 Bonus when firing, less likely to break. ____10x Steel Arrows – High-quality steel-tipped arrows. +2 Bonus when firing, less likely to break. Athame – A small athame, typically used for utility or alchemical purposes. In a pinch, it can also be used to poke holes in an enemy. Leather Armor– Bog-standard leather armor. Relatively light-weight, quiet, and good for protecting those squishy vital organs. Dark Cotton Pants and Undershirt - Motians generally frown upon undressed people in public, especially if they're mammals. Buckler (+1DEF) – Your typical buckler with a wrist strap. Used to help deflect attacks without weighing the wielder down. Prosthetic Gauntlet – A gauntlet that replaces Amadan's missing right middle finger, enabling him to fire a bow right-handed; a series of wires connected to the right ring finger enable him to bend the artificial middle finger to a limited extent via bending his ring finger. Leather Boots – An important feature of any rugged ensemble. Hand Axe - A crude hand axe. Pendent of Liea – A holy symbol of Liea. Has no powers, but identifies the person as a follower of Liea. Pack – An adventurer would be nothing without his or her trusty pack. PACK Alchemy Kit – A small kit with all the essentials to perform alchemy. It also has a small pouch for reagents. ____4x Empty Vials – Necessary for holding potions or more dangerous (or messy) reagents ____2x Air Reagents - Alchemical reagents, embodying motion and creativity. Usually consists of an animal's sensory organs or meteorites. ____1x Earth Reagents - Alchemical reagents, embodying stability and protection. Usually consists of animal bones and crystalline materials. ____0x Fire Reagents - Alchemical reagents, embodying destruction and change. Usually consists of caustic substances and animals' natural defenses (claws, teeth, venom). ____1x Water Reagents - Alchemical reagents, embodying persistence and restoration. Usually consists of fossils and animals' vital organs. ____10ozs Purified Sea Salt - Useful for countering bloodborers or for certain alcoholic beverages. ____Amadan's Recipe Book – A book of alchemical recipes. Has blank pages for storing new recipes learned in his travels. Paralytic – A slimy violet poison that causes the muscles of the victim to freeze up, causing either penalties to-act or outright paralysis for a short time. Primal Philter – Shuts down higher thought processes and taps into primal instincts. Heavily boosts unarmed combat and provides small bonuses to other mundane combat. Heavily penalizes anything requiring considerable thought or focus (such as magic, composure, etc). Large Vial of Insect Poison (6 Doses) - A powerful insect poison useful for repelling and killing insects. Vial of Dead Spiders - A vial full of Hirst's webspinner spiders. Deceased. 3x Jerky – Portions of dried meat. The tastier alternative to hardtack. 2x Waterskins – Bags capable of holding two days of (preferably potable) water each. 25ft. Rope – A rope of 25 feet. Useful for chasm crossing, cliff climbing, or cattle catching. Dragonfly Signet – It's a signet of a dragonfly! Used to identify oneself as a servant of Lady Arielle, but keep out of sight at all other times. Fancy Clothing – Respectable dark green clothing, fitted so it goes over Amadan's body armor. Also, in case anyone's curious, the party's currently at 51% HP and 46% STM. Yeah, finding a place to get some uninterrupted rest is becoming a bigger priority.

Originally Posted By: Painted Lady I need some help with my avatar. I have an 80x80 pixel picture on ImageShack. I take the option of "URL for forums" and I get the code for my picture. It is shown here, so obviously I have a legitimate URL. When I paste that URL into the slot on my profile page and click "Submit" I get an error message saying "Invalid picture type." There is a second URL for forums which does the exact same thing. Any ideas? Don't use the URL for Forums. Use the Direct Link option. The boards need to have a direct link to the image you want to use as an avatar. To expand on that a bit, image hosting services usually offer variations on the URL with formatting added for social networking, forums, so forth. They're all the same URL, just with various tags added to them. However, when you want/need to put in an image URL for avatars and such, you just need the plain unmodified URL.

Mostly; you might want to try emailing Jeff (the creator) about the issue. He usually doesn't frequent the boards.