Lord Safey

The place the supply cash is located is where a drakon is protect a group of vats growing more dryaks and drakons. Rebel or not he doesn't like your intrusions you probably entered without getting permission from him angering him and the icy end base.

drat

In way we are learning how to shape. Though I don't want nor think we will take the same path the shapers did. Also I don't think we will, we have several technological optionals to shaping. I can't see shaping having many reasons beyond medical purposes. Its far easier for us develop combat robots then it would be to develop super soldiers.

well to be fair your all getting off topic

Jeff I believe is more then capable of coming with his own ideas. Also I find it a bit refreshing not trying backseat drive every once in awhile.

I think Jeff said he would do something else for a while and would leave Geneforge and Avernum alone for the foreseeable future. He didn't rule out that he one day come back too it.

Originally Posted By: Sleeping Dragon Originally Posted By: AnarhIztok2511 Just one question - how many of those who answered "no" actually don't use canisters in the games? Well, it is a game. I certainly do have playthroughs where I don't use canisters. I find them to be the most satisfying. I play mostly proshaper only play other factions to hear their side of the story. So I usually very selective with what canisters I get.

Shaping over all was discovered be accident. However the canisters and geneforge was discovered because the Shapers figured out that they where altering specific genes and spent much resources learning the programing language that is our genes

Originally Posted By: Thuryl In Escape Velocity, it's even possible to lose most of that money in one swell foop if your ship is blown up... although I'm sure that most players just reload their saved games when this happens. Thats if the person isn't playing in strict mode, then your just screwed

I see trakovites as a mean to an ends. They are useful for the purposes of getting the rebels and shapers to the negotiating table. I don't support their ultimate goals for 2 reasons. 1. Is if the world turns away from shaping they will find something else to replace it. Something that they have no clue how to handle and you have to start all over again. 2. Look at other forms of magic that are forbidden (necromancy) the shapers have had significant resources and time to wipe them out as well as the support of the people to wipe them out yet they still exist. As soon as the horrors of the war are forgotten those who have practiced in secret will come out of hiding and return to the old ways.

Something can be psychological addicting with out their to be need for any chemical addiction (bitting you nails chewing on a pencil). As far as the bad side effects. I tribute it two things. First is that their is a certain amount of stress when changing your body sometimes your body doesn't react well to that stress. I imagine that their is a a cumulative effect that slowly goes away. Use more then one canister is like mixing your precipitations. A licensed doctor or pharmacist spends years of training to learn how to do this safely. Even if you put in safeguards the genes will start to interact with each other and start having unattended consequences probably and judging from how canister addicts act it probably has something to do with how the neurons in your brain form.

what I think the 10% is referring too is that 90% of your brains weight is due cells that serve as support structures. However their is no huge locked portion of you mental capacity waiting to be unlocked.

so the geneforge series is biased against couples?

I disagree I believe that fact that the shapers are willing to recruit a rouge servile and teach him the secrets of shaping is significant. However the shapers only made such progress because their survival is threaten. It shows that eventually if their survival is continually threaten they might come a point where they are willing to negotiate. I think a long protracted stalemate of war will eventually bring the more moderate parts to the negotiating table. while the drakons and the more stubborn shapers will have to be destroyed.

What happens when you get people rebelling against the rebels. Simply put their are rebels and a sizable number of them too that don't like the drakons. A colony of cryodraks becomes so feed up with the drakons destroy one entrance into into the drakons research lab and block the other. The dryaks inside of the research lab are willing to help you fight the Unbound prototypes because they want a chance to fight a drakon in any form despite how suicidal it may seem. A servile gives you a quest and pays you well for to see break into a drakons private quarters and see whats their and then is horrified when you tell him. Stating the Drakons and becoming just like the shapers. The whole non Drakon part the rebellion blantaly refuse to help the Drakons to rebuild the Unbound making equipment if you go with a trakovite ending. The Drakons are just 12 foot tall reptilian firebreathing shapers in disguise who are crazier to boot. I think ultimely if you want peace and just you must follow the trakovite ending part way. I admit it don't support the banning shaper. However I think they can help bring the more moderates of both sides to the negotiating table. Eventually the extremist of both sides (shapers who remain intolerant and the drakons) will need to be destroyed.

that comment has nothing to do with what I said

I think the best possible ending and I'm not sure nor do I want to know if it possible ending till I play G5. As the war gross increasingly more brutal a wedge will form in both factions the extremely traditional shapers will for one faction while the more moderate shapers will form another. The same will happen in the less extreme rebellion the (the humans, the dryaks, and serviles). My best hope is they will form an uneasy alliance and destroy their more radical counterparts. I do stand on what I have said before about the drakons for the most part, they leave the world with no option but to destroy them however this is also true for the more shapers who won't open their mind.

sure it would be easier and I'll probably have trouble balancing it. Once I get a character class that is even roughly playable I will start playing just to balance it out. This is on going project for me and half if not most of the fun is going to be in creating it. So is it harder this way prehaps but its more fun this way and I will more please with the results when I get finished (If I get finished)

Well I can't say that what I'm making isn't a complete and total piece of crap but I'm trying anyways. Thanks for the references. Right now I have shaping divided up into 4 different categories: tool craft (living tools, minds etc), animal craft (animal like creatures (thads, turrets, gazers etc.), disease craft, and healing craft I also go a bit creative and added a good deal to the creations list that wasn't necessarily in geneforge. Although if its in geneforge I tried to make sure its in the shaper class I'm designing. Although I am of the strong opinion that I'll end up needing to rework the system of various powers.

I have recently got interested in D&D and was wondering if anyone had made a Shaper character. Even though my experience with D&D is laughable at best, I have written up a nice amount for it. I'm sure someone is going to say I should probably learn more about the game before I go and start making up my own class and I'm sure their right, but I'm doing this anyways. Its more of an on going project anyways that will go through a lot before it gets finished. So I guess my question is has anyone done this before, have any advice, thoughts, help, encouragement, death threats etc on the subject?

I always go with 31

why can't we create worms or crawlers that already exist in the GF world and suck more then the usual starting creations. I'm mean it be great to have a more disposable creatures early on.

your forgeting the crawlers and the worms

To put it shortly this isn't an ethical decision y'all keep making it out to be. Even if the Drakons have the moral high ground, which I don't believe. However the Drakons are slowly growing more insane and powerful with each generation. Eventually unless their stopped you will come to a situation kin to GF1 ending where you leave the island with the original geneforge intact and ready to use. Eass used a GF to create a more advance race of Drakons. the Drakons in GF 3 does the same. I have found no evidence that this GF was destroyed. Also their is nothing to prevent them from making another. Considering their obsession with super weapons I find highly likely. We know what the effects of the GF are on living people. It makes the user more arrogant, more power hungry, less caring about "lesser beings", and less sane. It stated in the rebel ending that all the drakons came to use it. So I don't like either choose before me on side I have a faction that has committed genocide and slavery and will continue too. On the other side I have a faction that is slowly going insane and shows every sign of bring Armageddon. So here are my choices choose support the shapers and kill off a few races choose the Rebels/Drakons and kill of everybody. I choose the first.

Quote: Quote: It is what makes them refuse to negotiate with the "inferior beings" of the rebellion that makes me not support them. All they send to greet and emissary from Litila, a lone disgruntle drayk? Actually, it was Greta. And they do grant you an audience (in fact several) before Ghaldring. They are also horrified when Salassadar mistreats human guests. Only because it hurt their pride why should, why should powerful drakons need to resort to such tactics? The audiences are only granted because Ghaldering wants to use you as tool. Quote: Quote: They seize towns without even trying to reason or allow the serviles to maintain some control. Not always. At the gates to Quess-Uss, serviles and Drakons were working together. On the fourth island of Dhonal's isle, the serviles and drayks were in control. At Derenton Freehold, there was no attempt by the Drakons to take over. Only one island had a large shaper presence and in the rebel ending the island was of no major significance so I assume even then their was still a lot of concern that drakons would barge in and take control. Although I imagine they didn't because it wasn't glorious enough in the end. The gates of quess-uss I beleive is do to extreme desperation and the drakons had much better quarters and where still in charge despite the fact the were working along with them. Quote: Quote: You can argue they do this out of survival but their sense of arrogance and entitlement stops them offer any form of reimbursement even something as simple as an apology is too much for them. Yep, some Drakons do demonstrate insensitivity, although I don't think that this is inherent to their race. I'd say it's more a product of having to fight a war of self-preservation, and also bitterness at the heavy losses suffered earlier in the war. They scapegoat other groups, behaviour which is common amongst humans in times of hardship and disaster. Is it? I think that might have accelerate the process but their were signs of this in GF3 when they where wining the war. Quote: Quote: As a collective, are Drakons more arrogant than humans? Perhaps. But their condescending views towards non-Drakons developed over time due to social factors, as is stated by the old Drayk in the Unbound vats. same as above it social factor accelrated it. You want me to believe that every canister you take makes you a bit crazier and it stated many times through gf2-gf4 that the drakons where using similar techniques don't the same effect on them as it does humans? That and excessive canister usage is the only thing a human can do to be consider an equal by Drakons. I find it highly unlikely that it is mostly due to social issues. and now I'm going to bed