Nick Ringer

Granted, my Human vs. Drakon ratio was off by a lot. Also, in battle (by which I mean a massive attack as described above) the Drakons' projectile attacks would cut down groups regular soliders before they could even get close; all they have for distance are thorn batons. What it comes down to in full-scale war is this: the Shaper army consists of a few dozen powerful, multi-talented Shapers supporting hundreds of very weak (relative to the Drakons) soldiers limited to melee swarming. Mages would probably play a minimal role, but hundreds of creations could provide a buffer and maybe even break up the rebel front lines. The Rebel Army has a few dozen Drakons (from what I can tell), vicious in ranged and close combat. Then there are the Rebel Shapers, I guess just Litalia and Hoge? Those groups far outdo the NPC Shapers, for what it's worth. A bunch of Drayks (also good at a distance) and countless Serviles would make up the main army. If the Drakons came as a cavalry and penetrated the Shaper line (in groups of 3-4), they might be able to take out the Shapers in charge and the soldiers would be quickly cut down without the healing reinforcements. As long as the Drakons are not isolated, they are indestructible for the purpose of a quick battle. The Shapers would have to split their Creations to flank the Rebel army. Given that distraction, the opportunity to break the Rebel line would present itself. Shaper dazing/charming would also work wonders in huge group combat. Given that the Shapers are so defensive and the Rebels are always taking action, a massive Drakon strike at Dhonal's keep from the coast would be a veritable blitzkrieg; I mean, if one apprentice (who, granted, becomes the most powerful character) can slaughter a military city like Dhonal's Keep -- and many of us have done it -- so can a pack of augmented, berserk dinosaurs. I feel like the Lord Rahul himself. Almost at the point of drawing out battle maps here.

Yes, Orois Blaze. The greedy one south of Icy End who also gives you skills for thousands of coins each. What I want to know is: - Will the next game expand on the canisters? - Will the next game incorporate the Sholai? - Will the PC begin the next game outside Shaper rule?

How insightful! You have to admit that the Drakons have damned cowardly methods. In both games they existed, they hide and develop, taking no chances--they want to be really really sure they can win. Besides, if you consider population, there have got to be 20-30 Shaper NPC's on Dhonal's Isle alone and probably 10 tough mages or warriors. Then the overwhelmingly large army? I'm in the middle of a GF3 playthrough and I just passed through the Main Army Camp. I'd say there are about 30 Elite Soliders and 30 Fighters. This force, oh my crap. 6 Fighters could take out an Ur-Drakon with no loss of life (my guess). Creations: Erika says she commands 15 Glaahks and Alphas, up to 2 miles away. So maybe 200 Creations in the whole Dhonal's Island Shaper army. But how many Drakons are there? Can't be more than 10 in the whole game ... Drayks and Cryodrayks, maybe 40-50 including those hatchlings and the weaker, rogue ones. The serviles, there are countless rebels. Not counting the scared ones with 27 HP, I'd say there are about 100 that the PC actually runs into. Throw in their handful of tough rebel Shapers and some of their Creations. So just for a fictional helluvit, throwing them all into a single zone would result in a massive Shaper win. Wouldn't it just kick Vlish if your Shaper authority can overcome NPC's? It's suggested (largely in GF) that regardless of whether something is a Creation or not, Shaper aura effects them. It's just that Creations were made naturally more susceptible. Akhari, you're coming with me.

I concur. Batons are somewhat obsolete. The thorns are too few and far between; perhaps you should be able to load any thorn into any type of baton? And batons can be distinguished by strength (as opposed to thorn type)? - Flying creations. Vlish and their variants can hover, but I am not satisfied. Despite the difficulty of implementing turn-based flight, Nick demands it in GF4. - "An upgraded form of an ornk, like a Cryoa is a Fyora's upgraded form." So Fyora is to Cryoa as Ornk is to ... Fyornk? Drayk, Drakon; Ornk, Ornkon. Ur-Ornk. Urnk. Ornkbeast. Submission Ornk. Tusked Ornk. Meaty Ornk. Tasty Ornk ... Delicious Vlish. - Sex. Not the verb, but the collective noun, and my choice to use it incorrectly, drawing attention. What about male Agents or female Guardians? There are NPC's that have appearances that reflect their gender ... I mean, who here has seen Samus Aran, from the Metroid series? Despite traditionalists who think Samus is a guy, she takes off her suit--as a Guardian should be able to--to reveal a set of, er, "bodacious tatas." Can't this affect gameplay? I wanted to seduce Diwaniya but still beat him up. - Shifty NPC's. I think I caught Lady Anjali smoking out of some "Shaper Equipment." Afterwards, she sold me a blunt for 150 coins. Lord Rahul sent me to Chadwick Prison. Damn it all. - Huestess. And (s?)he pissed me off. The BIG SECRET in Spirits' City was kind of a letdown for me, honestly.

I was about to laugh with you, Pizzaking, but then noticed the serious tone of your post. Minigames would give GF4 a Zelda-ish feel, but in my opinion, the Zelda series is the best out there. Something about Shaping has to be done. It's not terrible, but a little too easy to "cheat." Shaping skills only affect the Creation's Shaping, so as Micawber pointed out, it's simple to equip a few nice Shaping artifacts (like the Black Crystal Talisman or Essence Chitin) and make powerful creations. When you get your fighting gear back on, your skill may be insufficient to even make the same Creation, much less a well-supported one. Another thing I want to explain -- Mr. Vogel don't let me put words in your mouth -- I've noticed people complaining, "how come Lord Rahul can make as many creations as he wants and I can only make seven? I'm way stronger than him!" Or someone mentioned that "serviles can't be independent because they keep essence from the Shapers." These aren't like laws of the Geneforge universe. It's playability. General Greiner's army can send creations two miles west, according to one of the Shapers there. But for you, that'd be sending it into another zone, and it'd be largely impossible to implement this. There are workarounds to such problems (if they can so be called) I thought up, and will probably be regarded as stupid ideas. I'm going to list them anyway, for those interested: Losing essence from Shaping is alright, but the inability to get it back, I find just ridiculous. I would lower essence capacity for all classes, and not let the Creation "leech" any essence. Shaping is described as tiring; completely depleting spell energy would be reasonable. However, this motivates players to shape hugely powerful creations with loaded skill points, then refill essence and repeat. See below for remedy. Some creations are described as particularly willful, like battle alphas, and later on, drayks and eyebeasts (On a side note I don't like the idea of Shaping drakons, much less controlling them). Shouldn't these Creations be more likely to "go rogue?" Why not assign each Creation a "rougue tendency" variable? Say a battle alpha has a rogue tendency of 10. For each skill point the alpha gains, its rogue tendency will increase a point. The Shaper gets a "Creation control" variable that determines whether or not you can control a battle alpha. Suppose your Battle Shaping skill is 4 and your Leadership skill is 6. A reasonable formula is ctrl = btl*ldr; this scenario gives the Shaper a Creation Control of 24. You can make a battle alpha with up to 14 skill points. As soon as your cumulative creation rogue tendency exceeds your creation control, the toughest creation has a good chance of going rogue at any given time. It may motivate your other creations. This would, however, make Leadership much more valuable. Maybe a new Creation Control skill could be implemented. This would even solve the "cheating" with Shaping artifacts; you'd have to keep them on, or you'll get beaten up by wild rogues. Other, unrelated comments: Classes (guardian, shaper, agent). General skill groups (fighting, Shaping, spellcasting). As is, we have three preset choices: -Good at fighting and some Shaping -Good at Shaping and some spellcasting -Good at spellcasting and some fighting I'd love an agent that's good at shaping, or a guardian with magic skills. Having weaknesses (read "certain, more expensive skills") is not for me. GF4 may look like this (again, I'm speaking for myself only): -Warrior: good at battle -Mage: good at magic -Servile: good at espionage* *leadership, mechanics, luck, maybe even stealth since Jeff mentioned it And any class can learn to Shape eventually, since you apparently can't play as a Shaper. Inspired in the last 30 seconds, a stealth skill would be good for stealing stuff. Larceny is too easy if you can get someone to leave (I always crowd the Barzite shopkeepers with Creations, then shut the door behind them and loot the place). People should probably notice if you rob them. Unless, of course, you're really stealthy. Then they can just be like usual, "what the hell happened?" So far, MOST people don't notice if you walk into their bedroom, then walk out a few pounds heavier. That's assuming too much stealth. Or if you're super stealthy, you can kill people without an alarm going off or turning a town hostile. I mean, realistically if you stab sick, quiet Torsten to death in his little house the whole town can't notice ... heh-heh-heh. Your stealth might enable you to overhear conversations, through walls, or to not be noticed by guards. All that good stuff. How about class advantages? Like, if you're a warrior type, you could get selected for a quest, "Get rid of rogues" because you seem more capable. But a servile might not get much respect from other people. Or perhaps a mage may be sent to look for ingredients. Your class should probably also determine your starting location ... a servile, born intelligent but still able to choose rebel or loyal ... a mage, in a laboratory or school ... a soldier, in an army or garrison. All eventually coming to the same place, but maybe only your class can visit your starting point. It adds replay value, of course. Crafting. I love that. Make a skill for it, like mechanics. Have it deduct spell energy and essence. But the wands and stuff were a little too trivial to be worth making. Crafting your own canisters would be pretty cool ... for 10 crystals, a ring of puresteel, and a chunk of essence, you should be able to level up in an ability (like a spell or creation). Stationary creations. Even if it's not realtime, making some spawners, turrets, or spincores in enemy territory should have some debilitating effect on the enemy. Didn't Phariton make pylons? You could defend a city with them. Wild Creations. Largely the same deal as above. Remember the servant mind in GF1 that was Creating things to harass Zhass-Uss? What about creating a bunch of crazed thahd mutants and loosing them into the wild? It shouldn't affect any of your ability to Shape loyal creations, since as soon as the wild creation is out there, you don't have to worry about it. Comparable to Litalia's efforts with the warped spawners and rogues and stuff. Pack animal. That "Create Ornk" in GF1 could be more than a joke. Someone -- I forget who -- suggested this very thing elsewhere. I'm usually frustrated anyway by having to drop off items. As long as you don't take them out to use in battle, ornk would be good pack animals. But you'd have to keep them fed or something, so it doesn't get too easy. "That's all I have to say about that" -- Forrest Gump

I love Litalia. She's the best innovation in the series. Like an anti-hero. At least, if you're loyalist. But anyone out there actively doing stuff out of your control is awesome. Good cutscenes where she binds you with magic ... come to think of it, what happened to Greta after she left your party? I assumed I'd see her again at the end, working with the rebels. Not that I was at all disappointed. GF3 was amazing. Also, when I made it to Litalia's bedroom, I had to start poking around for black lace. I think if there's a patch it could include that. You see Alwan (Friendly, Health 188/240) Game saved to quicksave slot. [Press F4 to load a quicksave game] Save complete. You gain an item: Litalia's "Girdle"

I really enjoyed the "cutscenes" in GF3. With Litalia and her fading shade are the only examples I can recall. Simple. But dynamical. Day. Night. Rain. Snow is nice. Just needless visuals with no effect would be, super. Also, I've always had an intense urge to play a rousing game of "Boardgame" or "Dice." Them guards get bored. Now here's a more radical idea. Jeff's decriptions of Shaping have always been vague, but I get something like this: the Shaper releases essence from his or her body, concentrates, and extends a little magical energy to direct the essence. Bam, new Creation. My idea: you have to actively do something skillful to shape. So maybe if you have crappy Shaping skill, you can still do a good job. I can't imagine how you would control Shaping. Sort of a mini-game thing that's so hard to incorporate it's probably not worth it. But cool. I'm sleepy.

... or, being able to spell "grammar." My favorite class to play is the lone Melee Guardian. Where I just make myself tough as hell. Focus on Melee Weapons. Lots of Strength. And lots of Endurance. Ignore Dexterity and Intelligence; you're not worried about the enemy hitting you. The fact is, if you can get next to something, it will be dead by the next turn. Specifically, you start out with 15 skill points. As a Guardian, I spend them on two levels of Endurance and four of Melee Weapons. This leaves one skill point over and puts you at a measly 30 HP to start, but some healing pods sustain you through the fragile early stages of the game. Use your first level up for more Melee Weapons. Once you get Melee Weapons up to 9, it starts costing 4 skill points, so begin building up Endurance, and throw any extra skill points to Quick Action. The idea is that you can always take out early enemies in one hit. That's how I like it. If you play for mechanics or diplomacy, you'll have to throw away valuable skill points early on for it.

Well I have never heard of cold resistance. And I have played through Geneforge 2. So I guess not. My best guess is that, until Geneforge 3, there weren't that many attacks that didn't fall into the other categories. So they were just classified as "energy."

Well that's just what the bridge-operating one says. If you ask him if he can swim, he replies with something like "no, but I'm sure it will be easy to learn when the time comes." Still, this is probably just what his superiors convinced him.

... and other mysteries. What exactly is "levels damage in combat?" Thrusting Gauntlets: +2 levels damage in combat. Other things that I can't figure out: - Energy resistance. I assume this contributes to defense against Cryoa and Cryodrayk ranged attacks. - Eyebeast and Gazer ranged attacks. Does your mind resistance protect you from these any more? Or are they just using Kill? - Being slowed. What kind of effect is this: stun, mind, or is it non-preventable? - The hand and the X. Two of the status icons that appear over your character. I'd guess that the hand means "slowed" and that the X means "stunned." Furthermore, what's the difference between slowed and stunned? - Armor. Presumably it reduces damage in general. From all types of attacks and effects? By how much per point? Can't be a per cent, or 100 armor would make you invincible.

I don't think Serviles can swim. Ask the one who operates Old Rising Bridge.

But then you'd need a source of essence for the computer, and the keyboard would mutate your internal organs, liquefying you, unless you wore the proper Shaping Gloves. Records of their creation have been long lost, but they say the Cryodrayks in Taker lands know something; they may tell you, for a price. Most Cryodrayks will give anything for a Flawless Shard, but those were all lost or destroyed in the War of the Sholai over a decade ago; rumor has it, though, that an imitation can be forged by a certain Servile smith, although he has been taken captive by the Loyalist Shapers, who would only let another Loyalist see him. Precious little time is left before his execution; perhaps one would talk to the esteemed Hepzibah of the Shaper Council about such matter. However, she has been on vacation for weeks, and she may have been killed in a Sholai guerilla raid two days ago. Also, the components necessary to make the Shaped Computer itself are exceptionally rare: 20 mined shards to mold into working parts, a Steel Breastplate to house the tower, and a Flawless Glaahk Scale for the monitor, and 12 Living Tools to construct it. Oh, and internet access is 2,495 coins a month. Thats with RuneCast High-Speed; you can get Shape-Oh-Ell service for 1,995 coins. If you weren't sure about the Geneforge joke, you could have actually checked the FAQ.

MagmaDragoon: this is actually what I meant. Spawner-spawning Spawners wouldn't be much of a threat; since they cannot attack they'd just take up space, essence, and a few gemstones apiece. It'd be good for experience to hack through a few, and you'd get rich quick. In related news, it has always bothered me that, assuming Geneforge takes place in our universe, the Law of Conservation of Matter is broken each time you Shape a new Creation. But Einstein's Relativity Theory does state that matter is energy. Therefore the Shaping process must consist of some fission in which energy (Essence from the Shaper's body) is transformed into matter, and the Absorbtion process must consist of fusion, in which mass is transformed back into energy. This is all well and good in theory, but keep in mind that fusion produces such rich energy that (according to Einstein) a two-pound brick, if spontaneously transformed into pure energy, would destroy our planet. So can it be that the Shapers are that powerful? Maybe Creations are weighed in amu ... or maybe I'm just not giving Jeff a chance. Hooray.

Whoops, I brought it back up. But arachnid Shaping is getting really positive feedback.

Damnation. I wanted an Easter Egg.

Geneforge 2. Medab. This is my Agent, standing on Pinner's private dock. The first time you come back here, a dialogue describes it as being ready for a quick escape, or something to that effect. Pinner would, in time of crisis, flee into the river that cuts diagonally across the game map. Look out there in the water, above the cursor. Four blue tiles. The kind that take you to the game map and to another area when you step on them. Medab does not have another readily apparent north exit. Hmmm. I have not looked at the game's script to see if this does anything ... but it'd be a nice little easter egg, right? The game map does have plenty of room north of Medab, where the two rivers join. Now, if I could only get a boat. Or leap into the water. I mean, look. It's not there for no reason.

Thus, of course, you would like nothing more than selectable text, right?

I_am_a_Minotaur pleaded for reasons to exclude Drakons as PC's in GF4. Dikiyoba gave several, which I_am_a_Minotaur subsequently shot down with juvenile retorts. So my question is: are we just fueling the argument here? That wouldn't be necessarily wrong. The alternative being that I_am_a_Minotaur is seriously campaigning for the teenage Drakon plot. Because being a humongous reptile just isn't enough; you'd have to get an age-based demographic, too. Don't let me put words in Dikiyoba's mouth, but I'm pretty sure his "giant spider" suggestion was, in fact, sarcastic. Even Jeff has denied the Drakon playability at this point. What more could we want? Incidentally, some mammals lay eggs (only the duckbilled platypus and spiny anteater). Might Slith not also have nipples?

Chosimba makes an excellent argument. All of the sects in all of the games are keeping secrets or try to betray you in some way. The single exception is Barzite: even though Stanis killed Shanti, you get fair retribution. My observations on the sects (yet to play GF3): - Awakened -- GF1: Slain Servant Mind in Ellrah's Keep. They also want you to kill Control Four. -- GF2: Pinner is ready to selfishly run away at a moment's notice. Not much treachery though. - Taker -- GF1: Sholai allies, without telling you until you join. And of course, want to kill all Shapers. Vengeful and ready to turn on you instantly. -- GF2: Won't tell you much about Geneforge, and want to hog it. Have huge labs they won't let you into even if you join (Gazak-Uss, Benereii-Uss). Still want to kill all Shapers. - Loyal -- GF1: Obeyers starve other sects, lots of espionage. No betrayl of PC, though, as you are a Shaper. -- GF2: The entire plot is pretty much a deception. Zakary seems ready to kill you at a moment's notice, and has secretly turned his back on Barzahl. - Barzite -- GF2: Capture and kill Shanti. Canisters have malicious effects, but it's not their fault.

- A Spawner-spawning Spawner. - One of the sect leaders actually getting up off his ass and doing something. - Fighting giant swamp rats. Oh, wait. - A plot without megalomaniacal villians bent on world domination. - You steal something when nobody is looking. Later, they notice it missing and you spend the rest of the game in a cramped prison. - The PC, despite devastating magic and fierce, loyal creations, has to stop to take a leak. - An NPC gets over their fear of "Shaper authority" and just beats your ass when you demand more supplies. - The Clawbugs start their own sect, determined to dig a big, sandy pit. - As you summon all your powers to blast the enemy to kingdom come, he unceremoniously whips out a revolver and shoots you in the face. - Someone sends you on a quest to return his missing head of cabbage. It's been in the family for generations. - Your desperate search over the world has led you to a dark forest. You slay all the rogues and trek through untold miles of wilderness. Finally, through clues in obscure rumors told to you by raving, drunken serviles, you come across a toilet.

I like the way you think, VCH. The PC should play a part in making the Geneforge, since, so far, it's been completed by the time the PC shows up. Here's a mock recipe for the Geneforge: - Mined Crystal (100) - Purified Essence - Liquid Puresteel [abitrary new item] As for a quest: having certain alignment to get a skilled Shaper to help you make the gloves; of course you need to go get the ingredients. I think the Forging Gloves ("Shaped Gloves" from GF1) would consist of the following: - Shaped Gauntlets - Purified Essence - Flawless Shard (2) And then, that skilled Shaper may decide to try to use the Geneforge himself and kill off the PC. I'm being just as much of an idiot as everyone else here by making up a GF plot, but I should point out that it's really easy to come up with a plot for this ... given the history, characters, sects, races and creations, it's practically premade.

Thank you, Kelandon. Dikiyoba, that's twice today I saw you use the first person ...

I need closure. Is it pronounced ... jeen' forj OR jeh' neh forj I just can't decide for myself and it's been bothering me since the original.

I like the sound of it ... my screen must be pissed at me for all the resolution switching (takes longer every time, just to spite me?) By weather, do you also mean the passing of time? Day and night would be a really good addition. Also, to affect gameplay, I think the PC should have to sleep and eat. It's unrealistic not to ... unless, of course, you're all augmented. Then, you're inhuman and may not need nourishment or rest. Adds to the depth of gameplay without affecting plot or user interface. Towns could have inns (there was a "decorative" one in GF2) that allow you to rest and eat. If you're fatigued/starving, you should have similar effects to being encumbered (lower action points, hit penalties). Maybe you can buy camping equipment to bed down in friendly areas? Example: 1 min real time : 60 min game time "Instant" travel across zones adds 30 min game time Day (6am-8pm): Fewer rogues, more people, towns active for trade Night (8pm-6am): More rogues of different types, townsfolk are at home asleep. Hunger comes 2 times a day, fatigue hits daily. Sleeping at night is more beneficial. Just spitballing.