Nick Ringer

Right, I never liked playing the Shaper class. You can't be "in" the battle, and your creations leech your experience and essence. The first time I played Geneforge I used a Guardian. Good old Dakro. I think it's a good balance of skills; since most equippable items boost the PC's battle skills, you're able to kill any common enemy within one turn, provided you can get next to it. You have enough magic skills to heal yourself, and you can make some basic creations as "cannon fodder" or "meat shields." A couple Fyora can add projectile attacks to your arsenal if enemies tend to run away. Besides, a Shaper gets his ass kicked in those "hazardous" areas. This argument of mine has inspired me to make a poll on the subject ... Oh, are you called "Old Scratch" from Pink Floyd's secret message? I love The Wall).

Theft, MagmaDragoon, is possible in real life. The fact that your party members can take stuff without being noticed is either a) an inherent sleight of hand possessed by creations, Alwan, and Greta, or cheating. Since we can't Shape, Jeff gets to make up rules for it. So, as The Lurker articulates: Quote: Originally written by The Lurker: Hmm, I never really thought of it as cheating... In fact, it seems somewhat logical... When the main character equips a certain magical item, magical powers pour into his/her mind and tell him/her how to to make a drayk, then when it is taken off, the main character suddenly has amnesia and can't remember how he/she did it. Or maybe the main character just needs this item as power enhancement, whatever. Anyway, since the creation was fully made, it doesn't disappear when the item is taken off. Yes, I know this may sound lame. But seriously, I think it's part of the gameplay. ... we should accept the game as it is. Note the quote.

Your desire to answer that question is accented by the age of this thread.

I appreciate your faith, Dikiyoba (the Dikiyora of Dikiyobia).

I didn't have trouble with that part ... there are only a few guards, right? I remember how do to it, sort of ... Hide creations if you have them (stick them behind a shut door or just hit the = key to disable them). Go to the back half of the camp and turn left. Head up to the west shore, which is clear of guards. There's a storeroom to the south [2] with nothing spectacular in it. Sidle up against the west wall of the large building to the north. Now is the part where you'll want to quicksave. Get into combat mode and experimentally take a look to see where the guard is [3]. If he's not there, get to the first door on the north wall. You should be able to open it, get inside, and close it in one turn (which is good if the guard happens to be milling about there). From there freely loot the room [4]. Before leaving, quicksave again. Open the door, and repeat the combat-run-open-inside-shut with the door immediately to the east. In this room (if I remember correctly) are the maps that the gatherers near San Ru want back, and some more goodies to pilfer [5]. Quicksave again. If for some reason you feel like it, you can hide in the bare patch of shore to the east with barrels and stuff [6]. It's easier, however to get back out to the west where you were, then return south to the entrance [1]. from here you can go east and immediately south behind the buildings, where no one can see you. Walk the whole way to the south ... SPOILER: On the ground you'll find a wooden ring [8] belonging to someone in San Ru. Take it back to Norell (Diwaniya's assistant) and he recognizes its owner, revealing her as a rebel. It's nobody you get to meet in the game, so you might as well do this for the exp. The rest of the camp is pretty useless, but if you're a completionist just use walls, doors and combat mode to skirt around guards (only 2 or 3 back there altogether) and take stuff. And here's a rough map of the back of the camp: Code: ........................... ..... ggggggg3gggggggg ... .... ###X#####X### .. # # # 6 .. # 4 # 5 # . ##X## ############# # 2 ############1################ ##### g # # # g # # # g # # # 7 # # # g # # # g # ##### g #8 ##########

I never knew what the sd in sdf stood for. Those low-exp quests do kind of piss me off ... maybe quests should be worth the same amount regardless of level? [EDIT] I HAD never KNOWN what the sd in sdf stood for.

Zeviz, you probably were putting your items in a zone already full of "decorative" items. That wouldn't be fun. Hey, where's my Emerald Chestguard? Replaced by a trowel. Oh, my.

For those questions, there's typically a neutral answer, or you can just hit the checkmark to escape the dialogue (and the question). Being neutral isn't necessarily good; some people only help you if you're really tilted in one direction. But I haven't read the game script or anything for GF3 yet ... ... I am on a neutral playthrough now, however, and I find that in the first two thirds of the game it's good to be loyalist (Greenwood, Harmony, and Dhonal's Isles). Then you can get training from all the Loyalists (the captain in San Ru, Diwaniya, Lady Anjali). Don't take any major actions for as long as possible (up until the end of Dhonal's Isle, pretty much), but when you've exhausted the benefits of being a loyal Shaper, take a bunch of rebellious actions (like Lankan, Creator (to be more descriptive risks a spoiler (even though everyone has played through by now))) and find people to spread gossip or whatever. Oh, and try to avoid canisters. They prevent you from dealing with some people. Not many, but hey. At least until you feel like slaughtering all the woodland serviles, keep under seven canisters. Matt P's guide documents all the actions and words that change your "alliance" (listed by area).

This is something I'd like to see change. It's a little too easy to "cheat" and use certain items to beef up a creation, then equip something that's otherwise powerful.

I like igotarock. To quote Dikiyoba, "because it's there."

The game has sort of a major problem, but you can steal damn near anything with the following method: 1. Send member of party (creation, Greta etc) into desired place of theft. 2. Hide player character (preferably behind a door). 3. Take stuff. The game only bothers to check if the main character is "visible" when a "NY" item is picked up. But your other party members extend your "get items" range. If you do this in a shop it's really profitable: take all the items off the floor, even the cheap ones, and sell them right away. At some shops (the crystal one in South Keep and Orois Blaze's cave) this can be ridiculously lucrative. Despite the fact that you posted three threads back-to-back, they're all good questions.

I tend to pick a friendly city and store all of my junk there. If it accumulates, try dropping it in different piles (equippables, ingredients, quest items etc). If it's destined for another island (ie Dried Herbs) I drop it off at a dock. That way, next time on my way to its destination (ie Harmony Isle), I can drop it off. If you're playing either of the previous two games, use a city entrance. I was not aware of the 200-item limit, nor has it affected me in any of the three Geneforge games.

The worm is not a regular visible enemy; it pops out of some bushes when you get really close. It's around a clearing in the south/southwest part of the map. I can't describe it exactly, but the little gap in the trees is horseshoe-shaped, you have to come in from the south, and it's probably 3-4 tiles across. I hit it completely by chance. THEN go talk to Meraia. In Fort Kentia, you have to ask Alila again "Not all the monsters are outside the gates?" or that similar question. She'll mention the penned Artila again, and then you can say, "Took care of it." Typically, after a quest is completed, you have to go report to the character that gave you the quest.

Really and truly. Loved those GF3 spinning particle effects. What I'd appreciate are people sitting down or lying down, when the game says they're doing so. It just looked a little weird when the sailors in Dhonal's Keep were standing at attention next to beds going "mmmm, just like that." "Yummy shrooms." -- Mushroom Cave servile

Your stats are mildly superior, and your creations would be helpful. Unless I Charm them and cast Searer to poison the crap out of you, I'd have to rely on running away a lot. But isn't that a Guardian's weakness?

I decided that my Agent is just about the most powerful Shaper you could have. She's equipped with: Agent Cloak (general magic) Essence Aegis (spellcraft, healing, intelligence) Lightning Girdle (+1 AP, lots of parry/dexterity) Guardian Claymore (strength and quick action) Quicksilver Sandals (+1 AP, worth strength penalty) Talisman of Might (+4 strength!) Emerald Chestguard (+2 AP! Also great protection stats) Gloves of the Rock (+4 endurance!) Avenger's Ring (melee weapons, lots of quick action) Gazerskin Vambraces (melee weapons) Granted, it took me until the Monastery Caves (and thus, Benerii-Eo) to craft all of these fine items, all of which are enhanced by Golden Crystals (the Guardian Claymore isn't blessed yet). Although I'm not sure precisely how level-ups and canisters have affected Esther (she's level 40), her stats are as follows: 92% Armor Resistances</font><ul type="square"> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 79% Fire 79% Cold (Isle of Spears didn't damage me once that I can remember) 79% Energy 140% Stun (only the Shambling Rotbeasts could stun me) 118% Mental (effectively immune) 110% Poison (effectively immune) 92% Acid (still got covered a lot, not damaged much though) </font></li> [*]Health 378 (569 after Augmentation and Essence Armor) [*]Essence 436 [*]Spell Energy 1010 [*]Action Points 12 (18 when hasted) [*]Skills <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Base Skills</font><ul type="square"> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 13 Strength 12 Dexterity 14 Intelligence 14 Endurance </font></li> [*]Combat Skills <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">10 Melee 8 Missile Weapons 14 Quick Action 10 Parry </font></li> [*]Magic Skills <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">11 Battle Magic 9 Mental Magic 8 Blessing Magic 9 Spellcraft </font></li> [*]Shaping Skills <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">0 Fire Shaping 0 Battle Shaping 1 Magic Shaping 12 Healing Craft </font></li> [*]General Skills <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">12 Leadership (21 when appropriately equipped) 12 Mechanics (20 when appropriately equipped) 4 Luck </font></li></ul><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font></li></ul><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pretty much unlimited staying power as far as spell energy is concerned. Encumbered at 154 lbs, far more than enough to carry infiltrator's/tinker's gear along. Most interesting, however, is Esther's speed. She gets 12 AP per battle round. This is enough to run away a little and cast two powerful spells; run, use two items, and cast a spell; or use four items. If she's hasted, it's really nasty. 18AP, enough to cast three spells on top of an item or some running, or, of course, use 6 items. I also noticed that 18 AP is enough to run between 1/3 and 1/2 of the way across a zone. My typical strategy: bless myself to the max stats when I enter a zone (140 essence). When I smell battle, I cast Mass Energize and Protection (160 energy, 23 essence), and then rush out and (if there's a crowd) cast Mass Madness (200 energy, 20 essence). This leaves me with two more attacks (and 750 spell energy) to weed out anything that might slow me down (a Glaahk, Rotghroth, Submission Turret). From here, I can burn down the remaining enemies with whatever they're weakest against (typically Essence Orbs). My healing magic, though powerful, is seldom necessary; usually, everything is dead by the third turn in battle (8 attacks). Does anyone have a tougher Shaper? Can we beat that? Do I need to make a MMORPG that loads Geneforge data so we can find out for sure?

Yeah I don't really understand that logic. Unless she drops the Runed Jade Necklace, but then you'd only get the exp for killing her. If you really want to max your rewards, I guess you could show Komoa the journal, get the experience and the necklace, kill her, get a little experience, give Morgan the journal, and get your experience and Healing Craft. On a side note (since I have too many new threads open), are there more endings to Geneforge 3 than the rebel and loyalist endings? I'd assume there's some unaligned ending (read "kill everything that moves"), and I heard someone mention a canister-abstinence rebel ending with a different Litalia.

I've done it before. The game will not register her death as far as the plot goes. She won't be there anymore, granted ... but nothing changes for the future of the game. Killing her before you get to Drypeak (if you can) doesn't affect anything. She appears in the next area as though nothing has happened.

My boat was meant to stand out. I tried making the little pinkish-colored posts (there's one in my picture) cartoony, but they appear so often it doesn't look good. Here's what I considered: usable objects could be outlined to stand out more. Like the boat, which seldom appears. So it's tasteful, or something. But it's also less visually realistic. Besides, the white mouseOver outline helps users distinguish. So it's just a question of style. And speaking of style, look how I placed that rope all perfectly and stood next to it! Dhonal's Fort Wilton docks did not have that kind of class before I got there. Yep, thorns were always too few and far between to make the batons convenient. Although it's mentioned that Shapers wouldn't stoop to making their own lowly weapons, "a Shaper is nothing if not resourceful." Transportation via Creation. Hmmm. Create Sea Drayk? That'd be incredible. Zone-to-Zone is well and good, but why not take it into battle? It could have a basic fiery projectile attack (remember how yours takes down the Sholai ship), and you could cast spells and projectiles from its back. Enemies may attack from the water. So you could have water-based enemies. Aquatic Roamer and Ur-Salmon and such. But can it carry other creations? Maybe you'd have to invest more essence in it, or something ... of course, you'd have to be limited to where you can do this. otherwise you'd say, "screw this water hazard," Shape your way across it, reabsorb the craft, and go on your merry way. Something like, "Sorry, this river is too rough for a Sea Drayk." Of course, it always bothered me that you can't swim. I mean, medieval folk were so afraid of the water they never tried, but we're talking about Shapers here. The Warped Creator is crazy. Then again, it's supposed to be. Shaper Telekenisis. Oh yes. Wouldn't you love a spell that blows open a door or clears away rubble? The Shaper Council. I want to see them in the next game. I mean, the Shaper Capital or something. Of course, that can't work. Geneforge 4 is very set up to take place in Terrestria - the less-populated Shaper continent, so the capital is going to be in the other continent. Whichever that is.

Oh, not the cold shoulder! Well, in my spare time (which I do not well spend) I made a new boat. Because I can no longer withstand the scaled, blurry craft from Avernum or something. And now I'm going to post it here.

Thank you both. And I did help her at the Bulwark Inn. Unfortunately, I also got frustrated and just gave Morgan the journal back over an hour ago. This is what I get for my impatience. EDIT: also, I have saved many times since. I checked and everything. I'll just see her again next play through. Komoa sexy. Mmm.

In Matt P's walkthrough, "Morgan, an alchemist wants you to find his lost journal. Doing so gets you a nice reward- healing craft, minor heal, and heal improvements. You can also give the journal to someone else if you are rebellious, but I will mention who later." I can't find out who ... I'm reading carefully through his whole bloody guide too. These things bother me. I am pro-rebel and everything, although "rebellious" may just mean "naughty." Perhaps this was inserted just to bother those like myself.

That's hilarious. Whoever voted your karma down to one star needs a kick in the nutbasket. Still, I only save about once per two hours of play. I use quicksave otherwise. So nyaa, I'd get back out.

The "Advance Notes on Geneforge 4" thread has been relentlessly bombarded by crappy ideas. As a 7-page thread tends to scare people off or discourage them from reading it, let's start anew. Yet, this will not be a thread for reasonable suggestions or conservative critique of the prequels. Oh no. This is for your (my) most degenerated thoughts and pathetic, obscure issues on Geneforge. How would YOU change the next game in the Geneforge series? (I_Am_A_Minotaur, try not to defecate in your britches with sheer glee at this.) I have, at this point, such a frighteningly vast array of editions (scribbled in a notebook through boring functions) that I have largely remade the game. I'm certainly not giving that amalgam of, without a doubt, enlightened, literature to the first post of this ill-fated thread. Although, if posterity demands it, I will include my personal Geneforge thoughts. I'll give you inspiring concepts to change (which will invariably turn into a list of every one of the series's attributes): skills, creations, classes, plot, characters, zones, spells, items, quests. Altogether new concepts. As crafting and trapdoors were new in GF3. Modes of travel. Special effects. Minigames. Shaper telekinesis. Encoded puzzles. Enlighten us.

DISCLAIMER: Sorry this topic is about a week old, but the boards are a little slow anyway. You'd think Mr. Vogel would answer this... I suppose he's the only one who knows for sure. In Geneforge and GF2, the cities had the same sound effects. The Geneforge towns were populated by serviles, and that high pitched babbling ("AI-chai-chai CHAI-cha, AI pa-pa sai" was stuck in my head) made the impression that Serviles have high voices. I buy that. They do have ridiculously long noses (which I don't like about them really) ... in GF2, I'm just assuming it would have been too much trouble to make new sounds, despite the fact that the cities were also full of humans or Drayks. The GF3 cities sound like they were produced; the "smithy" has got to be a spoon on a plate, and the voices are extraordinarily well-done. They sound very, very near to real language. Perhaps they are one. But not one that I know. Sounds kind of Middle-Eastern to me. The only clear voices are two women, rolling their r's a lot. That's my contribution.