Nick Ringer

Okay, the Geneforge boards are a little quieter than I'd like, so I'm inciting discussion. I am of the opinion that Geneforge games (and the other Spiderweb RPG's if I'm not mistaken) have too many skills. As of Geneforge 4, the skills are: Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Endurance Melee Weapons, Missile Weapons, Quick Action, Parry Battle Magic, Mental Magic, Blessing Magic, Spellcraft Fire Shaping, Battle Shaping, Magic Shaping, Healing Craft Leadership, Mechanics, Luck That's nineteen. I'm not feeling very academic this summer, but I still think it's too many. Besides, the organization is strange. Healing Craft is under Shaping Skills, and General Skills include infiltrator stuff instead of Strength and Dexterity. I'm okay with all the resistances I would do it more like Super Mario RPG. The best game for the SNES, by the way. I made a screenshot special for this thread: That's it. You level up, you get a little stronger, and you pick your specialization. Attack, endurance, or special attacks. Now Spiderweb games have a little more than three skills could cover, but if it were up to me (and I respect that it isn't) I'd dramatically bring down the number of skills. Might look a little more like this: Strength (carrying capacity, weapon attack power) Speed (turn order, dodge chance) Dexterity (mechanics, stealth) Intelligence (leadership, diplomacy) Magic (includes healing magic) Shaping I don't expect most people would like that, reducing Shaping and Magic to single categories. But I think you can specialize within the skills by studying certain spells and creations. And screw Skill Points. Each level, you get 5, right? A lot of skills cost that much! By level 20 you have to save up for the ones you specialize in. I say give one skill upgrade per level, just like that. I guess my way doesn't leave much room for creativity though. I also composed a list a while back that reorganized the skills a little for class specialization and changed subcategories. It looked like this: Endurance (Hit point capacity. Protects you from poison.) Strength (Carrying capacity and damage in melee combat. Protects you from being stunned.) Intelligence (Essence and spell energy capacity. Protects you from mental attacks.) Dexterity (Chance of dodging an attack. Makes your blows more likely to hit. Helps you act sooner in combat.) Melee (Damage in melee combat and chance to hit with melee weapons.) Projectiles (Damage in projectile combat and chance to hit with ranged weapons.) Defense (Resistance to damage taken, especially in melee combat.) Casting (Ability to deal magical damage.) Blessing (Ability to bless and protect magically.) Charming (Ability to confuse enemies or magically loosen locks.) Influence (Aptitude in conversation. Opens better options.) Mechanics (Ability to operate, fix, and unlock things. Increases efficiency of living tools.) Stealth (Ability to go unnoticed. Makes stealing things easier.) Creation (Ability to Shape a Creation.) Infusion (Ability to infuse a Creation with essence.) Aura (Ability to control a Creation.) Crafting (Your ability to work with enhancements and forge. Improves effect of items.) Healing (Ability to heal and cure yourself and your allies.) Luck (Chance of certain events occurring. Helps in many special encounters.) I'm afraid I like both of my lists better than the existing one. Uh, granted, the descriptions rip off Geneforge. What do you think? This thread sure as hell won't change future games, but I'm curious nonetheless. I feel a little mean putting down . I'm particularly interested in the opinions of the jaded RPG players like Kel, Synergy, and D-Vlish.

Ugh, yep. That seems to be just it. All I needed was a gemstone. Jeweled Wand, would've been good. I like this discussion that came of it though. Robes are imposing. And decorative. You look bad ass wearing a robe. The game is pretty accurate to the fact that they don't provide a ton of protection. They are enchanted as much as other equipment, I guess. You have to admit, they are an effective bluff for armor. And the Shapers appear as such to everyone because they have characteristic robes. I think they're specified in the game to have an insignia and certain type of robes - Specifically that strange circley thing you see on the walls, and open, hooded robes

I'm not taking credit either, you know. I'm aware that my thinking of an alchemist's name did not invoke Mr. Vogel to read my mind and steal my ideas. I just finished the game for the first time, and I have several comments that I will append without thinking about it. "Shapers are generally fond of ... snappy jackets" ? I went for a blessing and battle magic-heavy rebel infiltrator, although my melee weapons skill ended up being really high. Anyway, I ended up using ice bolt on everything. All creations seem to be weak against ice. Glaahks and Wingbolts are especially resilient to everything except ice. I only crafted one item, the purified leggings, essence-infused iron, and blood poison that give you a big melee weapons boost. I tried to make a wand of some kind with a spray crystal and perfect drayk scale, but it wouldn't work! I got the recipe somewhere like Shaftoe's or Eliza's barracks. I was unsure whether to use a stick or board, so I tried both. I couldn't do any two of the ingredients at once, either. Did I just make a mistake remembering what to put in? Spray crystal, perfect drayk scale, stick (or board). I don't even know what it was supposed to make.

Well I had just seen the screenshots when I posted that. Apparently, "infiltrator" doesn't mean anything new. I figured it would specialize in mechanics and stealth. Anyway, here's another one ... Some characters are named after alchemists from what I can see: Tycho and Crowley, for instance. Now this idea I never put down where other people could see it, but Tycho was the main character's name in an RPG I was writing, and all the other characters were named after alchemists. D'oh! I think Crowley was just a town leader, but damn it he was in there. Other cool names include Agrippa, Aquinas, Dante, Adelard, Magnus ...

So I haven't been on these boards for a while, but now that I come back to Geneforge 4, I see that it includes "Infiltrator" as a player class. That was my idea! I don't know if that's why Mr. Vogel used it - in fact, it's unlikely - but I'm thrilled that it was implemented! I may be a little late asking ... Anyone else get what they want?

I meant visually. The Geneforge only looks cool in the original game. And everyone's names are cooler in GF. Trajkov, Heustess, and Sencia to name a few. The characters are deeper. The language barrier is the best. The whole Sholai concept was a surprise to me. The giant side quests (the Spirit Temple and the Shaper Tombs) were the best. And the spells were simple and effective. And the Drakons, with all due respect to Mr. Vogel, almost ruin the game for me. "Tyrannosaurs in F-15's" if you catch my drift. The original Geneforge rules. Long live the Sholai.

I think there should be a special victory for someone who kills everyone. There was sort of one in Geneforge 2 (Since all the factions were treasonous), in which you killed Zakary and Barzahl as punishment for abuse of Shaping, and you killed the rogues cause they're independent. So for Genforge 4 there should be an ending you can only get if you kill everything that moves.

Quote: Originally written by Spookee Salmon: Dude!!! The parade was the best cutscene ever! How did you mangle your game so as to not see it? I bought that for at least 30 seconds. Gazers are sort of like scary parade floats. Throw in a pair of Vlish and it's a carnival: Code: ^ ^ You AlwanVlish VlishGazer GazerGazer Gazer

Is it me or is the first game of the series the only one that makes the Genforge look cool?

What's this parade? I don't remember any parade.

Not directed at anyone in particular ... Generally, it won't make a difference. When you pick on someone's typos, it just reinforces that you're a cowardly, pugilistic idiot. I mean, do you expect to change the world if you yell at someone for not capitalizing "Shaper" or criticize their lack of paragraph breaks. Come on, if you can read it, no need to piss and moan about it. Right. Back to the thread topic, how about a game that doesn't even bear the Geneforge title but is set in the same world? I'm talking something like, the origin of the Shapers. I mean, don't the games suggest -- or even explicity state -- that they've been around and in power for millenia? Maybe you should play an ancient peasant (albeit with promise) who has the chance to join the Shapers when they're a young sect, and as you progress through the game, the Shapers gain power over the common populace. I guess this WOULD have to be set on Sucia Island, since the Shapers' origins were there. That gives me a more specific idea ... suppose your people are violently exiled from Terrestria (or whatever landmass neighbors Sucia) and you are sent adrift. Your fellow exiles take refuge on various islands, and you choose at the beginning who to go with. One island might be really tough to settle (wildlife or existing, violent inhabitants), and the lot that goes there consists of hardened vagabonds and fighters. They'd have a good chance of taking revenge on those who exiled them. Another island, I guess Sucia, would be all the educated and skilled folks trying to sequester themselves and study. They discover all those new powers, and there'd be a war with Heustess's people eventually (as described in Geneforge). And then I guess there'd be a whacked-out religous cult that goes to a miserable, icy rock covered in mountain goats and decides to worship something there. And they'd have to be bent on sabotage of the Shapers' unholy studies, or something fanatical. Eventually the islands would meet up or something. I mean, they can't be far -- in the Geneforge intro text, doesn't it mention that Sucia Island is one of a chain? Forgive me for dragging the island chain bit again.

All three games load all their images from one-byte-per-pixel bitmaps. That's 8-bit, in traditional terms, or 256 possible colors (2^8 being 256). So far I've only "remastered" inanimate objects. Animation reels, I'll think about it. Anyhoo, I'll put up a screenie before long.

I'm making a graphical mod for Geneforge 3. It'll have a more cartoony look -- dark lines around most stuff, considerably less visually realistic. It might be a while, but I should eventually have a zip file you can drop straight into the data folder. Then you get the ridiculous new game experience. Up to you what you think of it. Everyone tell me what you think of the idea for now.

What's the point of playing if you cheat?

Geneforge III was the first in the series that convinced me to remain loyal to the Shapers. It's the only time it seems "fair."

My whole computer screen glows. Does it really bother you (plural, "ya'll") that a question is repeated? It's not like the Geneforge board is overflowing with new threads ...

To elaborate, I'm certain it's in a barrel and I'm fairly certain it's against the west wall of the southernmore room around where Eko Blade was. G'luck. And yes, this is my first post in months.

I wouldn't want a puzzle per se, but I'd like to use some kind of sequence or simple arrangement to Shape. Although it'd suck if, at the beginning of the game you knew exactly how to create a Runed Battle Pi because you found it on the Internet.

Did you ever consider charging up armor that you intend to sell? It's a total loss of coinage, but hey. A few less times getting acid lanced to death is worth using some common powerup.

Hannah may look unarmed, but she has a little knife.

Level 52 in Geneforge. The trick is not to use any canisters -- I didn't use one, although it didn't seem to change my ending. Poll should've been a bit more inclusive?

Instead of changing PC stats, enemies should be made stronger. Stunning you beyond resistance if need be, etc. I think if you don't focus on a skill, it should be your weakness. It's this lack of necessary player weaknesses that brings up such debates. What about some unreasonably tough enemy? A test, or something you don't have to do. Like the Golems at the Testing Grounds in GF3, but harder than anything else in the game. The challenge would help players decide on the best class/strategy.

I agree on the similarity with Geneforge but I don't like the "conversion factor" of the article.

Quote: Originally written by Spidweb: P.S. I wrote this without thinkin, since I know some would happily get their chuckles by making up words from scratch to make me look stupid. I like having to be such a guardian when writing on these forums. I reassure you that attempts to piss me off will succeed. Wouldn't it just be easier to diliberately misquote you? Who's going to go back and check?

I use them as I get them. Always. You get experience. Actually, I tend to run out of things to unlock before I run out of Living Tools. I even unlock quest doors before I do the quest (the ones in Dhonal's Keep for instance) for that much more exp.