Nick Ringer

I seem to recall there being a Puresteel Soulblade held by a Guardian-resembling specter somewhere in Benerii-Uss. It's the same area where you can talk the imprisoned gazers into attacking Akkat with you. Anyway, I got the gazers to smoke the crap out of him, he's to the north of their cell.

Yep, typically with good equipment I will run up maybe 80 lbs on just what I'm wearing. Let's see ... my Agent wears 70.5 lbs of goodies, and the other crap I carry tends to be easily upwards of 50 lbs. But, I'm encumbered at 154 lbs. Then again, when I loaded up that file, she was carrying 195 lbs. If you have trouble getting encumbered (In Geneforge 3), get a Talisman of Might. Unfortunately, the only means for making one is on an Enchanted Anvil. Ingredients aren't hard to get ... - Gold Necklace - Mandrake Tincture - Demon's Bile ... except, of course, the ... - Rotghroth Fang ... I believe there are only two or three of these in the game. One is on the Isle of Spears, Southern Gates. There's one in the Monastery Caves, and I believe one in the Monastery of Tears itself. If someone can remind me that'd be good, as it's a submission thorn in my side not being able to get a Rotghroth Fang sooner. Oh, and all the ingredients must be forged at once. You shouldn't try to purify the necklace (as you would Shaped items).

I was actually surprised by the Gazak-Uss Shaping NW door, it played a big role ... but for GF2 it is sealed tight. As for this door, it's a classic trick of Jeff's. Shame on you for not seeking levers! In unrelated news, felix has yet to strike here. He's only 13, can't expect him to cover ALL the -- oh, wait. Edited for one (1) typographical error.

Same situation as Dikiyoba, here, excluding reptile-assisted suicide. What a spoiler thread this is ... You have to have the gloves to use it. The Geneforge makes most people afraid of you, and you go berserk around some (just go into combat mode). Goettsch has the gloves. Trajkov tells you so. But I'm assuming since you didn't already know that, you probably did what everyone does and just went ahead and killed the SOB.

That's Geneforge 2 for sure. It's the only game with Parry, I think, and I can tell by the Guardian and interface graphics. Just to show off, I think the area is the arboretum zone (north of the desert between Fort Gheth and Drypeak) at the west entrance.

I had, in fact, previously suggested both of these things. As punishment for repetition, read every thread less than a week old.

Also, he wanted badly to use the Geneforge ... Trajkov was one of the game's most interesting characters. I wouldn't mind playing as Trajkov or one of his shipmates in a prequel. It'd be cool, for sure.

Well now we have to ask Esther about her menses. Incidentally, I just tried to use Lankan's canister in Diki--I mean, Diwaniya's basement. And it hurt me, saying that "this was clearly not meant for Shaper use." So perhaps they are different.

... speaking of which, I always found it odd that Alwan calls you "Shaper." He was supposed to be closer to becoming one than you ... I sort of like my character not knowing what I do. But I'm weird that way; I can see where other people don't.

And someone got to give the answer before me. I'll just articulate: Trace is the female Shaper in the middle of town. The main prerequisite is completing her first quest.

You have a loyalty variable. You start the game at 100. All pro-Shaper actions make it go up. All pro-servile actions make it go down. This action is probably with 3-4 points. If you're a member of the Awakened, it's not going to affect your standing; your loyalty is probably around 70. Rebels only want it below 80 or so.

Don't give anything away! How heartless! All I'm telling is that you cannot open the door from the outside. Don't worry about it.

Quote: Originally written by Maxmillion: And Gottesch was a bastard even with just canisters. Did he use canisters? I recall him wanting to use the Geneforge, but I don't remember any mention of canisters. If someone finds discarded canister husks in his temple, let me know. Quote: Originally written by The Ripper: I always believed it was physiological. Some people just don't have strong enough genes it takes to absorb the power without the bad side effects. Hooray, for I agree. The canisters alter your DNA. The human genome has some huge number of sequences -- in the millions I think -- so the number altered or the importance of those changed seem to vary not only from person to person, but from canister to canister. Example 1: Geneforge 2 had a crazed Guardian-wannabe in Rising whose use of the canisters made him violent and confused. Example 2: Geneforge 3 included the use of three canisters by the leader of the Besieged Camp on the Isle of Spears; they only made him feel warm, he said, but the third one gave him flaking skin. Quote: Originally written by Zeviz: ... From what I understood, Shapers are at least a different ethnicity from other humans, and Shloai are yet another ethnicity ... See the other thread concerning just that!

They would be powerful enough to tear down walls and melt enemies.

The Shapers are usually referred to as a "sect," suggesting that they are human. However, using the term "humans" refers to outsiders -- non-Shapers -- only.

Yep. Caught that one myself. That bastard blacksmith ... but it's just a logic error, right? Jeff, you're slipping!

There's a second Unmelting Ice in the Creator's Hall (west-most zone on Dhonal's Isle). But I'd worry about how you lost it: if you put it in a zone with 200 items, it may have disappeared; I believe you can just pick stuff up until it reappears. It's not unlikely that you dropped off some of your stuff to fight and forgot to come back for it (I did this with a lot of valuable stuff, particularly a Shaped Shield -- took me an hour to find)

Lady Anjali. Although, Fanjul (the old Shaper in Southwest Dhonal's Keep) will train you for very resonable prices (if you have a rebellious opinion). As for your rebel/loyal opinion, here's how it works: you begin the game with 100 -- let's call it the loyalty variable. The higher this number is, the more "loyal" people think you are. Stating your opinion on a matter typically changes the variable by one to four points. Certain actions (like killing drunken Khogarth) change it by three to five, and a few big decisions can change it by eight points or more. People who judge you just check the variable; loyalists like you to be about 115 or more, and rebels go for 90 or lower. I think your leadership is added or subtracted from the skill to help you out; Anjali wants you to be 115 or greater in the loyalty department. Say you're only 107. But your leadership of 10 should bump you up to an effective 117, which convinces her to train you. See Matt P\'s walkthrough to find out how to change opinion of you: above each area he has a few quick notes. The line that begins with "O:" contains the names of all the people or actions that change the loyalty variable. He also lists trainers and their prerequisite for the loyalty variable (like "Fanjul <= 90"). EDIT: By the way, there is no benefit I can glean from a middle-of-the road path. Trainers and others who favor you based on opinion want you significantly on their side before they help you. However, you don't have to pick one side. It's most effective in Geneforge 3 to be loyal at first. I get up to about 120, or some high number, then avoid all opinion-altering situations. Since the first two thirds of the game are spent on Shaper-dominated islands, I leech all the benefits of being loyal: primarily, training from Vandrin, Diwaniya, Anjali, and Khyryk, and trade with Sciolino. Once I've sapped those resources, I'll go back and find as many opinion-changers as possible to make me rebellious. Then you can get trained by Fanjul and trade with any of the later rebels. In short, if you're just going for power, stay loyal.

If you talk to the one at the south -- and I love this little hidden feature, just makes the game real -- ask him where they get food, or how they survive, or whatever. When he waves at the woods, you see a glint of metal! Dun-dun-dunnnn!

I had no trouble, not even as a Shaper. Yet, despite having 9-10 Leadership, I was unable to coax the bastard into dissolving. However, Alwan, Greta, and two short-lived Artila took good care of the Creator. My strategy: Alwan beats the snot out of the Creator. I stand near him and use icy crystals to fend off worms, and firebolt to hit the Creator. Greta just shoots at worms. The Artila fired at the Creator to poison it, and at the worms if they got too numerous. When the Artila run out of spell energy (after about 5 rounds), I send them on suicide missions to bite the worms. They inevitably get killed, which doesn't affect much. Between the poison effect, Alwan's sword, and the occasional firebolt from me or Greta, the Creator is toast in a dozen rounds. A worm or two tends to hang around after his death. You get a nice Empathy Blade -- great for you as Shaper -- and, I think, a Student's Belt. So you don't have the NPC's. That makes things tough. Your (recommended) strategy: pump up one or two tough Fyora (lots of dex/str, 2 int, 0 end). Have them attack the creator from a safe distance. You sit with them and just crystal the crap out of approaching worms. If they make it to the Fyora, you're next. Save a little essence for permanent spells (Augmentation, Essence Shield) if you can, to protect you and your pets. Bless them, shield them, and hope their dex and strength is enough to hack away at the Creator. For this you'd need a bunch of icy crystals and essence pods. My real recommendation would be to start over and ally with Alwan and Greta. The game isn't that "stingy" with experience -- in fact, you seem to be! Don't worry about every point. You'll end up replaying hundreds of battles to be a few levels ahead by the end of the game. If you must nit-pick, however, consider it thusly: party members may leech your experience, but the cumulative experience gained by the whole party is faaaar greater than that if you went solo. I mean, didn't the "You should come with me. I could use an extra blade" conversation option imply something? (Really trying to sound helpful and not critical)

I see. That sounds nice. Since J.V. introduced "fading" creations in Geneforge 3, it would be reasonable to include them in the sequel. You can, perhaps, make tougher creations than you normally could; since they fade away, you don't have to maintain them. JVFC: you bring up an interesting point. Let me dig up what he actually said: Quote: Originally written by Spidweb: Since the end of Geneforge 3, the rebellion against the Shapers has begun. You will play rebels, not Shapers, though you will develop shaping abilities early in the game. Without shaping, it's not Geneforge. At this point, your character can be a human or a servile. There will be three character classes that take the role of Shaper/Agent/Guardian. I really like how that set works. The skill list will stay the same, most likely, as I think it works very well. There will probably be 3 new creations and 8 new spells. There will be three overall factions/sets of endings, but one of them is more hidden than the others. A number of characters from Geneforge 3 will return. I want the game to have many more scripted events and big battles. It's a war, and I want you to be mixed up in it. I've never been entirely happy with how mines and traps work, so I'm tinkering with that. I want to find a way for Tool Use heavy zones to be a more fun experience. I want to rework stealth so it's clearer what's going on and when a creature can see you. He says that "your character can be a human or a servile," which indicates that you wouldn't be a Shaper. However -- and this is kind of splitting hairs -- so-called "Shapers" are really humans who have been named so by joining the sect. He could mean anything. Also, Jeffers indicated that we will be able to shape. So there goes my one entry in the poll. Doesn't mean I can't write it. He shoots down some of my other ideas in that post, and confirms my desire to fight in big battles.

Despite your helpful manner, it is not possible to edit a poll after it has been posted. Maybe a little more explanation could have gone into the selections ... I mean, I see three types of servile and a few obscure creations, some new to me, but Sholai isn't in there, so I have to assume that's covered by the "outsider" choice.

I couldn't possibly have thought of everything ... although I expected complaint/ridicule based on the "I do not want to be able to Shape" it was my subtle way of reminding voters that Jeff had specifically announced (Zeviz!) the fact that the PC would not be a Shaper. Also I was going for completeness. No, I did not actually expect anyone to select it. Wonko: can you clarify what you meant about spells? I've never played Exile. I too would like to see more multitarget spells, perhaps some that aren't too expensive -- but I guess that's what spray/swarm crystals are for. And what is summoning? The Sholai should have their own faction though, for sure. Although they didn't seem very magical; Geneforge gave the impression that they were sailors and tradesmen (though there were a couple mages in there), and Shapers would have a better grasp of magic and stuff than ousiders. Unless, since the expedition to Sucia (which seems to have occurred quite a few years ago), the Sholai have come upon new powers: it's possible the conspirators against Trajkov (hidden in the valley north of Pentil and the caves around Kazg) returned to Sholai lands. I think the Awakened were too peaceful and, despite their newly gained powers in Geneforge 2, seem to have been eradicated or scattered into the mountains. Their nonagression just didn't cut it with the oppressive Shapers and crazy Drakons. I want more side quests. Little ones, like the Servile in Icy End who wants a piece of cake. That damn near made me cry. Something I really liked in Geneforge 3 was the ability to command troops (Dhonal's Isle). It wasn't terribly interactive, but having "commanding" conversation options in Geneforge 4 would be really nice ... for example "I'll go east with the creations. You take the troops north." I would want the ability to equip creations. How often do slain Battle Alphas drop Chitin Armor? I think humanoid creations should be able to wear armor. Servile/Human NPC's (Alwan, Greta) should equip just like the PC, weapons and all. I heard someone mention doggy sweaters for Roamers a while back ... How about a headgear slot? I thought "pants" were an okay addition to the arsenal. Shouldn't you get a "Blessed Beanie" or a "Shaped Helmet?" The Guardian graphic wears a helmet, anyway. As far as hands, maybe you can wield two weapons (as opposed to right hand weapon, left hand shield). That 30,000 coin limit kind of bothers me. Perhaps you can acquire a bigger purse/wallet/sack? Maybe there should be a bank? Also, why can't I haggle over prices? Leadership should affect trading ...

We need more polls around here. You know what to do. *The asterisk-adorned choices indicate that you can't say no, but these pretty much burn up development time. May make the game more expensive, or something. Consider this.

We apologizes in advancement for the multiple quote-makingness. Quote: Originally written by MagmaDragoon: An original question... Help someone, killing people without a purpose, stealing... Maybe these action can modify your person, like in Fable, Jade Empire or KOTOR. What do YOU think? Oooh. I like that. If you have party members like Alwan or Greta I hope they judge you. I recall an old Zelda game ... "Shame on you! Leave that poor hen alone!" I'd find the introduction of a 'third party' to the series quite interesting. I seriously doubt that the Sholai are powerful enough to be a threat to Shaper rule. Quote: Originally written by Waylander: I'd find the introduction of a 'third party' to the series quite interesting. I seriously doubt that the Sholai are powerful enough to be a threat to Shaper rule. I think that 'Echoes of the Lost Song' by David Gemmel introduces an interesting concept. Perhaps another race from far across the seas who have no knowledge of Shaping or magic, but who are technologically superior to the Shapers (pistols, muskets, cannon, etc.) The Rebellion would then be forced to choose between two evils. The Sholai could be powerful. They seemed great in number, anyway. Your idea: brilliant. However, that could sort of bring the series abruptly to an end, much like the Aztec, Mayan, and Incan civilations decimated by the Spanish conquistadores ... Quote: Originally written by Tom: Anyway, the real reason for my post; to resurrect an idea from earlier, I don't think a pack ornk is all that bad an idea. Going from island to island in Geneforge 3, I had to make several trips for my Shaper Equipment, crafting items, Infiltrator items, etc. etc. I'd just make it, use it, and absorb it when I got where I was going, but some way to easily transport all of my myriad forms of delayed gratification in one trip would be quite nice. As far as weaknesses, I think the ornk has plenty built in--too many, to tell the truth. First off, it's a traveling buddy, so that knocks you down to six slots for the more deadly incarnations of my Shaper's wrath. Second, ornks aren't noted for their melee ability. Loaded down with six hundred pounds of crap, their already hideous melee ability would decrease further, if they could attack at all--what would be a good weight cap for an ornk? Third, after making a full battle group of seven war-ornks in Geneforge 1, I noticed their critical weakness: these suckers are slow. In combat, they get where they need to go just fine, but that's turn-based. Out of combat, if I'm dealing with patrolling roamers or worse, I need my characters to be exposed for as little time as possible. My PC had no trouble . . . until he had to run back and save the ornks. There are plenty of ways to work around or through these various issues, but if the ornk can be made into less of a joke creation, I'd not at all mind slapping an inventory on it. Maybe, like with horses in Avernum 3, you could even ride your ornks and double your traveling time! First: shouldn't "War Ornks" just be called "Wornks?" Second: I can't remember who presented that idea, but I submit(ted(?)) that very thing in a hopeful and extensive email to Jeff Vogel about a week ago. I said that Ornks should not take a creation slot or get a turn in battle (they would just run away), and as opposed to getting the regular stats (Dexterity, Intelligence, Endurance, Strength) they would only get Strength, which would directly affect the amount they could carry (base 50 lbs, +10 lbs per Strength point). Checking back, it was actually me who brought up the Ornks in that ludicrously long post.