BenS

1 minute ago, Noman said:

The machine said that there was a tray to hold 5 crystals so I put in what I had, whatever that was, but no message came up saying that I didn't have enough crystals. My only option then was to ask for the crystals back to which the machine said no. Nothing on the floor or in the nearby chest. I went back later with more crystals but there was no response from the machine.  Seems to be a dead end.

Thanks for the tip. I'm in the core now so I'll try to run the gauntlet in combat mode.

I can't explain the dispenser problem. As for you running the gauntlet...keep in mind there's often a less, ah, action-oriented approach on a map. Which is to say, if you have decent Mechanics, you might not need to worry about too many pylons to begin w/. Though you'll have to figure out where to go...

10 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

The machines drop the items producedt on the floor next to the machine.

Maybe it's slightly confusing that the switch and the machine are in different rooms? You have to pull the switch and then go back to the machine chamber (granted, about 10' away but still...).

7 hours ago, Noman said:

I have done everything in the Eastern Mines and it won't turn green. Every pylon is dead and I can find nothing else to do. I'm sure that I have not missed anything. What to do?

Good lord, I wish I had known you were heading to the mines in the other thread about pylons you posted in! I would have told you something similar, which was, you did not need to destroy every pylon. Not even close. I don't know what class you're playing (or your level), but w/ a little experimentation and Essence Shield(s) and moving in combat mode, you can get through the Eastern Mines w/ only experiencing a handful (at most) of those pylons. The ones in the core are even easier to deal w/, as you can get to the Servant Mind and...let's see if I know how to do spoilers here...

.

As for the crystal dispensers, is there a chest nearby wherein your "prize" is deposited? I'm a little fuzzy on that, but each (there are 3 total) dispenser tells you (I think) how many rough crystals it needs for a transaction. They also deliver different items, so, common sense, do a quick save and see if you like what it gives.

Ok, Jeff confirmed that damage comes from wearing the FSG, and not from any melee weapon you might be wielding. However, buffs from said melee weapon are conferred on you. I cannot explain why my example of the Shielding Knife vs. Purifying Blade gave me the exact same Armor rating. I no longer have the P/Blade, and the Shielding Knife gives noticeable buffs (and of course not as much as Tek's Spectral Dirk). So there you have it.

3 hours ago, Snowwhite said:

I did find it.  I also tried the Airshock crystals and made not much dent in the pylons.  If there is a spell i don't have it as I have not invested in them as a shaper.  so I don't know why others could kill the pylons with Airshock.

Airshock the spell will become more and more powerful based on the caster; whereas those crystals are capped at modest damage (but can still be good to stun members of a group). That said, if you stay (mostly) in combat mode, and certainly if you have Essence Shield, you can bypass or survive a few blasts in your way through the N, to get to the power spiral that shuts down the pylons. The big room w/ the pylons has a nice middle section that's shielded from their "view". Once in there, next get through the door to the SE and then head N. Healing + Essence Shield will get you through just fine once you figure out the route through a little experimentation.

8 hours ago, Snowwhite said:

Thank you.  I had missed it.

I'm glad you found it, b/c I screwed up my explanation. The eastern exit from the Refugee Cave takes you to the northern (pylon) part of the Eastern Docks, while the southern (SE to me) exit takes you to the Dock Ruins, which is a way to get to the southern part of the Eastern Docks map.

36 minutes ago, Snowwhite said:

Thank you googoogjoob.  I thought that I have to go through to get to the dead Sholia who has the key.  and I can't find another way to get to the beach.  Can you suggest one?

There's an eastern exit in the Refugee cave that takes you south of where you entered from the north. The pylon area, like many maps, is the "non-combat" area (w/ a few exceptions), while the southern part of the map is the combat route to the body. There are some interesting NPCs in a building, too.

On 3/13/2021 at 3:56 PM, alhoon said:

Just a random question, how do we make ornks in this game? Their symbol is not on the menu of the creations

Has anyone actually used them as capable allies, or are they just a joke/meme creation?

20 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

An Agent Solo on torment is possible. There are only a few places where you might have to reload often. I went a different route through the game to pick ip Airshock and then the game was easier.

Well, I think a Torment run is beyond my skills (or patience), but thinking more about Agent vs missile Guardian solo, I suppose the advantage (maybe not early on) is that the latter doesn't have infinite ammo for Spray Batons, and is otherwise limited to single-target attacks. Whereas the Agent can blast away at a certain point, and Airshock is definitely icing on the cake. Ok, convinced. Maybe if you were pro-Taker, you'd have an easier time waltzing through some difficult maps, too. I could garner 3 achievements that way, too (solo; Taker; Trajkov). Hmm. Maybe I'll try that next game instead of a non-solo Agent, making sure I have good Mechanics & Leadership to help w/ certain boss fights etc.

EDIT: sorry to the OP for turning this into a different thread topic; it wasn't my intent.

29 minutes ago, TriRodent said:

 

An Agent with zero creations on Veteran or higher is interesting/fun.  A true solo run can be done but it gets interesting/exciting/lots of reloading at times...

I know there's a no creation achievement, but does that only kick in on Veteran or higher? I think if I were going to try that, it would be a Guardian w/ Missile Weapons rather than an Agent, but you sound like you're speaking from xp, so maybe Agent is equally fun/viable. I'm not found of endless reloading, though.

I think if I do try them w/ an Agent run, it would be for the novelty, not b/c I think they're optimal or especially complementary. I like to experience different things on different play throughs, to the extent possible, and the GF series in particular always makes me want to play at least 3x, thanks to the different classes.

29 minutes ago, Your_Humble_Dissenter said:

Its mostly the boost to creation endurance that hurts, especially since I have been playing around with battle creations this run.

Can I ask what class you're playing? I've been largely afraid to try the Battle creations much b/c I prefer the creations to have ranged attacks. For my 1st run as Shaper, I focused on Fire w/ a lesser degree of Magic (mainly for the Ur-Glaahk's Dominate late game, along w/ the Cockatrice). For my current run as Guardian, I'm focusing (barely) on Magic; at 15th level I only have 2 solid creations, a Charged Vlish and a Searing Artila, b/c they complement my Guardian. Anyway, my next game will be as an Agent, and I might play around w/ Battle creations then for something different, figuring my own magical attacks (and maybe missile weapons) can handle ranged attacks. We'll see.

20 minutes ago, Your_Humble_Dissenter said:

Well, that loss of the endurance boost hurts, but I guess it could be worse.

If it's any consolation, in 1.0.1, Jeff improved Endurance, including how many points it takes to boost it. One lost point on the Helix Bracer won't be fatal, but I get the frustration.

17 minutes ago, kuo said:

Would you be able to share more details about your current stats? I have a Guardian with 9 strength / 14 melee weapons. The numbers on my Guardian Claymore show 25-117 (+168%). I am wondering if it would have been better to have invested entirely into strength + FSG in the first place.

Glad to. I'm 15th level, and w/ Zavor's Band and the Guardian Cloak, this is my stat allocation so far (not including another +2 Mechanics for wearing the Tinker's Gloves): 

Strength 10

Agility 6

Intellect 4

Essence Mastery 4

Endurance 7

Melee Weapons 9

Missile Weapons 9

Quick Action 8

Evasion 7

As for Magic, my weak spot, it goes Battle 1, Mental 1, Blessing 2, Spellcraft 3. As for Shaping, which sort of feels like a weak spot, it's Fire 1, Battle 2, Magic 3, Healing Craft 3. Leadership is 8, Mechanics is 11, and Stealth is 1.

I roll w/ a Charged Artila & Energized (?) Vlish; acid is always helpful, and punching a vulnerable foe is quite satisfying 😉 

Anyway, as to your original inquiry, I'm not sure how to answer it b/c the damage range is invisible to me. If you've read the thread, it seems like 1-2 charges is equivalent to a Steel Sword, but w/ the added benefit of potential Stuns. Though I could do 150+ easily w/ only 2 charges against certain foes. As to your build, you still might be better off than I am if you get a lot of 2nd attacks due to that high Melee Weapons stat. I'm more dependent on Haste or sometimes QA. And the weapon skills are cheaper to level up than personal stats like Strength. I feel like I need to play another game w/ a Guardian and pump Strength more, while keeping a lower Melee Weapons stat. But I'm having fun and doing well on my Veteran run, and that's what it's all about.

It could be that our 2 builds are comparable at the end of the day, which would be good design on Jeff's part.

I believe each of the 4 pools works only once, so you'd want to focus the 4 charge-ups on either the FSG or Helix Bracer, depending on your build. I just got a 3rd charge on my beloved FSG, and paid closer attention to the text. It says its discharged (the pool's energies), so you can't re-use it, sadly.

32 minutes ago, Mechalibur said:

Huh, that's really interesting. Definitely seems like the Fiery Slap is being used regardless of whether you have a weapon equipped or not. Probably not intentional, although I'd say it makes the gloves stronger overall if you can still get weapon bonuses.

Yes, I'll report back if Jeff responds to my email, but for the life of me I cannot explain why I get the defensive buffs from Tek's Spectral Dirk but not the (inferior thankfully) Shielding Knife. As far as offensive output, it's definitely the FSG all the way (b/c I still manage to stun foes, and w/ a 3rd charge from a pool now, I can hit for over 200 points of damage sometimes. Presumably critical hits against foes w/ no armor reduction).

They're in the far east part of the dungeon. Can't remember how far up or down...maybe central area?

Hmm. Now I've discovered something that I can't figure out is by design or not. I'm wearing the FSG as well as wielding the fully-charged Purifying Blade. I wanted to do some damage output and compare them (2 upgrades for the FSG so far). I made the assumption that if you're wielding a melee weapon, your attacks would generate from that and NOT the FSG--that it would only proc from being bare-handed, as it were. Yet, that appears not to be true, as the sound of the attack w/ the P. Blade is the "slapping" sound of the FSG; and I occasionally stun my foes for good measure.

I can see pros and cons to what I think is happening. Which is that as long as you're wearing the FSG, melee attacks proc from that regardless of what melee weapon you are wielding in that slot.

Pros: if the game disregards the attack option of the melee weapon, I might as well put something there that benefits me defensively. For example, I just got a Shielding Knife in the Patrolled Dell.

Cons: I can't use a potentially higher damage attack from a sword that might be better than the FSG at the time, unless I remove the FSG and put something else in that slot for the time being; perhaps until more fully charged, it achieves parity w/ the sword. Also, arguably if the FSG will never catch up in damage output w/ the best sword(s), you've likely wasted the 4 charging pools on it instead of the Helix Bracer, regardless of the fact you're running a Guardian, and would assume the FSG was "the" artifact to build up. If that's the case, it's a strange design choice.

I'll wield the Shielding Knife and check the damage output etc. to see if I'm correct, and report back.

EDIT: Just tested this. The damage continues to come from the equipped FSG glove, ignoring any potentially better damage from an equipped melee weapon. Sadly, the FSG blocks not only any offensive damage output from, say, a sword, it also confers no defensive benefits--proved when my armor stayed at 57% regardless of whether I was wielding the Purifying Blade or the Shielding Knife. The only possible exception might be a melee weapon that gives stat increases, which I suppose my stat sheet would reflect. I suppose I'll look for one of those next.

What's odd about this is that it seems like the description of the FSG is telling you to attack unarmed, but in truth it ignores whatever melee weapon you wield anyway. At least in terms of raw damage output or Shielding Knife-type benefits. So, my "Pro" above has disappeared. Ah well, I'm still enjoying pummeling my foes like the Hulk.

EDIT 2: I just got Tek's Spectral Dirk, and unlike the Shielding Knife, this does confer all those great defensive buffs, while also seemingly doing FSG damage. I say that b/c the damage output of the Dirk isn't that great, and even w/ Melee Weapons 8, it seems like I'm still doing FSG damage (and I believe most of the time I still hear the "slap" sound effect). I can't figure out what's going on, so I'll try and email Jeff for some clarification.

For those interested in the FSG run, the vulnerability that a Vlish can add to a foe before I smack it down is quite nice!

39 minutes ago, googoogjoob said:

There's a semi-secret dungeon in the far southeast of Exile 3's world map- and this is preserved in Avernum 3 and Avernum 3: Ruined World, though it remains easy to miss- called the Monastery of Madness. It's populated by, as the name implies, mad monks, and the entire dungeon is an extended spoof of/reference to martial arts B-movies of the 70s/80s. One of the "special moves" the monks strive to learn and master is the "feisty slap of pain."

Of course, now I remember (from the Avernum games)! Not sure why I didn't make the association. Kudos to Jeff for adding this item to the game.

59 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

Currently I am level 18 with gear and have Strength 4, Agility 10, Melee Weapons 10, Missile Weapons 16, Quick Action 9, and Evasion 11. Gear includes Guardian Cloak, Agent's Shelter, Arcane Band although I might go back to Zavor's Ring, Girdle of Nimbleness, and Dancing Boots (+2 Agility)

Thank you for that. I guessed wrong on your build, as you did not in fact go w/ Strength over Melee Weapons once you got the FSG. Looks like you have a build that fires off tons of thorns and is hard to hit by enemies in turn. I am still curious what a high STR build w/ the FSG will do, and I might pursue it just to find out, while not neglecting Missile Weapons either. Sadly there's no retraining in the game short of a cheat code, as I'd modify my skill load out at this point, but I don't want to take the chance that it (like most of the codes) will ruin my achievement pursuits.

36 minutes ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

 

I wonder how many people grasp the Exile 3 reference with the Feisty Slap gloves.

The original 3 Exile games are the only SW games I've not played, so I did not get that reference!

Hmm, so I was slightly wrong about 1 charge vs 2 vis a vis the steel sword output. Maybe I rolled high on some rolls in that hilarious slugfest w/ the Betas. Can I ask whether you did indeed put aside Melee Weapons in favor of raising Strength? I see you've favored Missile Weapons. What are your current stats for Strength, Melee W-s & Missile W-s in your endgame build (which might be tilted in some way for a Torment run I guess)? W/out gear, at 10th level, I have 4, 7 and 6 respectively (currently 5, 7 and 7 w/ gear).

You might remember from the melee vs missile guardian thread I was going to try getting Melee & Missile W-s to comparable levels (8) before committing to 1. I wanted to make sure I could handle Reaper Batons and the best melee weapons. I suppose it's a bit foolish to keep those 2 stats roughly evenly distributed; especially now that I have the FSG and can leave Melee W-s alone. In fact, had I known ahead of time about the FSG, I might have prioritized Missile W-s and Strength and been better off. Ah well, I can always do a later Guardian run too.

I didn't understand "with the benefit of scum".

Alright, last game was Shaper + Helix Bracer all the way. This 2nd game is Guardian + Feisty Slap Glove. I just started using it @ 10th level; upgraded once. (I can't handle those damn clawbugs guarding the 2nd upgrade pool yet.) It seems damage-wise about equivalent to my Steel Sword, but w/ the added benefit of sometimes stunning my foes. I think for damage purposes anyway, the (fully charged) Purifying Blade & Guardian Claymore are the best melee weapons. Has anyone figured out how the Feisty Slap Glove compares to those 2 weapons? My guess is less damage but that could be offset w/ the stun chances.

If they're comparable builds, I might leave aside Melee Weapons (currently @ 7) increases and start pumping Strength, as the Glove builds off of that. Though that takes more skill points. I guess I'd keep my best melee weapon around if facing stun-resistant foes; easy to swap out.

What might have sold me on this Glove was a fight in the Kazg Ruins, where I got cornered by 3 Battle Betas and started slugging it out, w/ small support from 2 Roamers. Thanks to QA (6 points) & Evasion (5 points), I won that fight. Hilarious and inspiring at the same time. As I've been struggling w/ a Veteran run, that was a good morale boost.

I'd love to shatter a pylon w/ the FSG, but only for a laugh, as the explosion makes that a poor strategy. Anyway, for those of you who've either crunched the (invisible to me) numbers or tried this build, let me know what you think. Thanks.

On 3/6/2021 at 4:21 PM, Randomizer said:

It doesn't matter what else you do in the zone, these are rare appearance creations. They appear in areas with bone and skull on the ground.

 

Crag Valley - Benttooth the Roamer

Thorny Woods - Warped Fyora

Pentil Plains - Ancient Artila

Servile Outpost - Charged Artila

Dry Wastes -  Vengeful Spirit 

Wooded Valley - Roamer Firefang 

Freeplace - Ur-glaahk 

 

I didn't meet Benttooth until my current, 2nd game, not realizing these creatures above didn't always appear when you show up to their lairs. Benttooth was kind enough to drop a unique item. Do all of these 7 special creatures do the same?

It should open a locked...door(?) nearby, I believe.