BenS

Point taken. Best of luck to trinko.

As a fellow Mac user/player, I'm sympathetic. Unfortunately I have no xp w/ that sound bug nor the F(3?4??) freeze, but I've played the game w/ a 2-year old 10.14.6 OS. Sorry to hear there might be a slight incompatibility w/ the latest OS update and the game, if that's indeed what the problem is.

9 hours ago, kuo said:

Yeah, I'm trying  Anything is possible with enough reloads, so it's more of trying to figure out a balance between using consumables, zone order, and not relying entirely on luck.

I have to say the game is fairly generous w/ wands in particular. Even this last game, I had tons of wands left over at the end, including lots of discipline wands. I could have used more battle pods, but one can't have everything. As to luck, well, RNG Jesus must be prayed to in a game like this, at a difficulty level like this, etc. Especially for the more epic fights (some of which are of course optional). Obviously prior xp w/ the game will be extremely helpful. I'm assuming you're rolling w/ a Guardian w/ melee & missile weapon parity for a while, then having one dominate? Or are you going to tough it out (cough*suffer*cough) w/ a late-blooming Agent and then become a screen-clearer w/ Airshock & Spell Mastery, along w/ the occasional Dominate? Good fortune to you either way (see, I avoided the word "luck").

3 hours ago, Magenta said:

Congrats, BenS.

 

I'm still working on a feisty slap guardian run, but have had limited time to play lately. After your description, I'm still eager to try it.

I wish you luck w/ it. I was sold on it from the moment those 3-4 Battle Betas (literally) cornered me at the northern end of the map just south of Kazg, and I outslugged them 🙂

I'm getting ready to try a new game (Legend of Grimrock II) that I've owned for years, but have put off playing b/c I prefer turn-based. But I did play the 1st one so...I should at least try it; I did pay for it and own it.

3 hours ago, kuo said:

Great, thanks! Sounds like a feasible strategy even for a non-canister PC.

Are you going to try a solo Torment non-canister run?! My hat's off to you. I did a reduced-canister run, to the extent that I ignored all shaping canisters after the first one (which gave me xp), but only to see if the ending text would say something about my canister usage. However, I probably still ingested too many of them overall to have that slight reduction noted anywhere.

11 hours ago, Randomizer said:

Goettsch is killable, but it may take a few tries and is easier at level 18 to 20

 

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with acid attack and using dominate to turn his creations against him.

 

Yeah, Goettsch was not an easy fight by any stretch, and took a # of tries @ 18th level.

8 hours ago, Randomizer said:

Congratulations on doing the hardest solo game.

 

The Spirit Temple fight is extremely hard for a guardian as you need to catch them with a spray baton before they hit you with mental effects. it is possible but requires more luck than other fights.

 

My apologies since I might have been the only torment difficulty beta tester. Jeff viewed it as as long as it was possible, he didn't need to adjust it.

Oh, no apologies needed. Certain fights are going to be tougher for certain classes; obviously I'd never try a pure Shaper solo on Torment, for example. And I didn't feel bad about not attempting to best those spirits b/c they weren't intrinsically hostile to begin w/. It's the equivalent of being caught stealing and the town turns on you, but on a smaller scale. I took the main point of that temple being the rather interesting historical detail you learn there; all the more reason not to fight them.

I should add there was 1 fight I felt was going to be too much, though I only tried it 1x; that was the western temple spirits. W/ no chance at dominating 1 for an ally, and my chance at hitting them even w/ War Blessing relatively low, and their insane amounts of magic damage...anyway, I didn't pursue that. Probably an Agent w/ a solid Essence Shield and Airshock could have done it (I did it so on Veteran, w/ an Ur-Glaahk, which didn't last long, so essentially solo).

Also should have thanked the beta testers for ensuring the varying difficulty levels were balanced.

When I started this, my 4th game, I had modest expectations. Finish the game, and get 2 of the 3 last Achievements left undone (last being Pacifist). Playing a Guardian, I had a few assumptions; perhaps the biggest being that I would be forced to join the Takers & Trajkov so as to avoid certain Sholai-heavy zones that would be especially punishing. Certain optional fights I thought I might have to skip, or perhaps try after I had indulged in the Geneforge. Levels 2-9 were rough, as I slowly built up a Melee & Missile warrior, w/ Evasion, Leadership, and Mechanics to boot. I relied on Daze and winnowing out the enemy, not to mention every ally I could get w/ Leadership. Then around 10th level I started to get more comfortable (and reload less often). By 14th level, I had an entirely new set of objectives: clear every zone, optional or not, w/out partaking of the Geneforge or joining a faction.

I did it, somewhat to my surprise. Ascended Ouroboros (though I tricked her into the incinerator area); the 2 Shaper crypts; the final Cockatrice brawl (insane); Goettsch; the Front Gate; and the Guarded Docks fights were rough, obviously. But eventually I managed them, and finally destroyed the GF before departing (this bumped me to 19th level). I had tricked Trajkov into destroying himself, so no fight needed.

Final gear: Charmed Plate (I relied on Dominate to get me through many tough fights!); Danette's Belt; Guardian Claymore; Guardian Cloak; Bracers of the Hammer; Stasis Shield; Zavor's Band; and the Quicksilver Boots. Reaper or Spray Baton as necessary.

Final (gear-added) stats: Strength (12); Agility (12); Intellect (7); Essence Mastery (5); Endurance (9); Melee Weapons (10); Missile Weapons (15); QA (10); Evasion (14); Magic: Battle (1), Mental (5), Blessing (1), Spellcraft (4); Shaping: Fire, Battle & Magic (1), Healing Craft (2); Leadership (9); Mechanics (10) w/out Tinker's Gloves; Stealth (2).

Anyway, I had never attempted a Torment run of any SW game in the roughly 20 years I've been playing them, so to manage it also solo was a pretty nice feeling of accomplishment. I don't think I'll try a Pacifist run; 4 games is a lot and it's time for a break. Thanks for everyone who was friendly & helpful on these boards, and see you around for the next game in the cycle. If anyone has any questions, I'll stick around for a few days to answer them, otherwise, rock on.

Assuming you have the right baton (usually green or grey, but rarely red), a good trick to maximize the # of mines you can defuse is to into combat mode (w/ grid mapping on) and figure out how close you can get to the most of them while remaining 5 spaces away. They'll start to trigger at 4 spaces.

EDIT: Hey, I'm no longer a Garrulous Glaahk! 😉

1 hour ago, Noman said:

I don't know why I didn't see that southern path before. However the Servant Mind said he would shut down the defenses but the red pools are still there. Of course I could go up that path to the exit but rest of the area is still too deadly. I guess there isn't anything there worth exploring anyway. Thanks.

The Servant Mind shuts down the chronic poison/acid dmg you take from walking around, but not the red pools which will nail you if you get too close. Still, Essence Shield and healing will see you through that. I don't know if you've left this area yet, but there are some worthwhile things there.

3 hours ago, Magenta said:

Got it. So I bump both melee and missile until I get enough for the spectral dirk, and then emphasize strength and maybe some more missile. I'll let you know how it goes. I've only barely gotten started on my guardian run, and it looks like I might be a little short on time the next week or so, but I'm on my way.

 

I take a lot of notes, too. I don't know how much that adds to the play time, but it's not insignificant. 

According to Randomizer's notes, the spectral dirk requires Melee Weapons 5, fyi. I'd say you want Missile Weapons at least 6 (hello Spray Baton), if not 8 (hello Reaper Baton). But keep in mind I was trying to achieve rough parity in Melee & Missile Weapons. Other players go whole hog on 1 or the other. I put some points in Evasion as well, but ended only at 7 for that. I also rolled w/ Magic Shaping, and a Searing Artila (acid almost always helpful) & Energized Vlish (vulnerable targets take that much more damage) for that run, after playing w/ the Roamer for a while. I like to get Leadership up to 8 and Mechanics up to 11 (+2 w/ Tinker's Gloves of course), but again, that's just my own personal preferences.

If you can hold off, don't put initial points into Mental Magic, Blessing Magic, Spellcraft, or Magic Shaping, b/c you can get a free point in The Tombs or Southbridge.

Cheers, and have fun!

8 hours ago, Magenta said:

I have never finished a game in 20 or 40 hours, and I don't think I will ever try.

 

I finished at level 13, which is roughly 2/3 of a normal combat finish at level 20, so that is consistent with the play time.

 

With the FSG, did you still need to bump melee, or just strength?

Oh, I could never finish a SW game in 20-40 hours, I'm w/ you. I take extensive notes for the 1st game, b/c I know there will be 1-2 more. W/ this remake of GF1, I've even gone a little overboard, given I'm on a 4th run, which I've never done, as well as solo/torment (also never done for GF). Though I'm only 9th level; I can't guarantee I won't run into an insurmountable problem due to my build choices.

Thanks for the answers. If I go Achievement crazy and try another game to grab the pacifist one, I'll have a benchmark for xp level to think about.

The thing about the FSG, which I probably didn't even acquire until I was about 9th or 10th level, having had only xp w/ the upgraded Helix Bracer, I didn't know what to expect. Which is to say, I think I was going for a dual melee/missile Guardian, up to a point, b/c I knew the "best" sword (arguably not true) required 8 Melee W-s and the best baton the same for Missile W-s. So I got Melee W-s higher than I needed, as what I rolled w/ ultimately was Tek's Spectral Dirk for the great defensive boosts, when I realized my damage output came from the FSG itself. So, I didn't start pumping STR until relatively late.

I suppose it wasn't a bad thing to have focused on Melee W-s for as long as I did, as it got me to the point where I acquired the FSG in the first place, but if I were to do it again, I would have cutoff Melee W-s at a lower point and focused on STR earlier. But maybe that's just a min/max attitude, IDK. I also only reached 20th level, I think, b/c I both used & destroyed the Geneforge; I reached 19th level w/ my Shaper & Agent runs.

4 minutes ago, Magenta said:

Oh, I've seen that thread. It might be just what I need after a round of not being able to smack down anything. I think I'll give it a try. As for that final cockatrice fight, it's hard to imagine doing that as a solo anything. Not that I won't try some time. Of course I will.

Funny we were posting at the same time. I forgot to ask you 1 thing about the pacifist run; at what level did you finish the game? Ok, 2 things, and roughly how long did it take you, if you remember?

If I can answer specific questions about the FSG build/run, just let me know. For now, off to work.

4 hours ago, Randomizer said:

Using the Geneforge gives enough agility to boost evasion so most creations are at 5% to hit chance. Silll when they hit it's a critical and mental effects may mean you do nothing for several rounds.

That's a slim thread of hope, thank you! Of course, if I can use the GF in the 1st place, most of the game is over. Still, I would like to at least try and accomplish everything I did on less-torturous difficulty levels. Assuming I make it that far.

Congratulations. If you want to roll w/ a Guardian build, I recommend the Strength + Feisty Slap Glove build; see my thread for the fun you can have w/ that. I'm trying a Guardian solo run right now, but unfortunately it's Torment, and it's living up to its name. I'm guessing I won't be trying the final Cockatrice fight for this particular run...unless I get to use the GF.

10 minutes ago, txmimi said:

My map doesn't show the Thorny Woods.  I've been to east pentil and the toms and pentil woods, but don't have a thorny woods.

 

It's directly south of Pentil East; you must have missed an exit on the map.

He could perhaps bifurcate an existing (fire, battle, magic) shaping line, such that @ a certain tier, you could choose either A or B. So, say, either a Glaahk or Cockatrice for a Tier 3 magic creation. That at least would offer variety and not force you to worry about strained skill point distributions, like a 4th shaping discipline.

18 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

That's one of those areas that don't care about the Amulet and are there to guard an approach to the Other.

(rechecks island map)...oh, I see what you're saying. Thanks.

On 3/7/2021 at 9:58 AM, BenS said:

Ok, thank you very much, Mechalibur & Randomizer. I'll finish my Shaper/Normal run today, and then will start a Guardian/Normal or Veteran run soon afterwards (3rd game will be Agent). I'm edging towards a slight preference of Missile over Melee just b/c, w/ fewer creations, ranged attacks will be extra important to me. But there are of course plenty of times when something's in my face and I need to whack it; not to mention some great melee weapons. And I should be equally strong as a Shaper in magic skills.

 

As for Reapers, yes, pylons are a particularly annoying opponent and I'd save those for special occasions like them & bosses.

I believe I'll be ready for a 4th run later today, after wrapping up a Veteran Agent run (late-bloomer but worth it). At this point, I think I've done all builds of note save a melee/sword Guardian and a missile weapon Guardian, so it's the latter I'm coming around to. I also think I'll shoot for both Torment (my 1st ever in a SW game over the last roughly 20 years) and solo (which would net me 2 of the last 3 Achievements save for Pacifist). 

This will be an obviously double-ramp up in difficulty for me, so if anyone has any tips beyond "don't get hit" and "save often" (that I do), I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking Evasion will be more important to me than otherwise for a Guardian, blessed w/ high hp as they are. I don't think I can completely ignore Melee Weapons b/c of the leapers, but will try and focus on Missile W-s and Evasion, along w/ my usual predilection for high Mechanics and decent Leadership (so helpful in the early levels especially).

I'm on my 3rd game, pro-Taker & working for Trajkov, w/ his Amulet...why are they hostile? They're not noted as being uber-rebel-Sholai, and even if they were, would they know from afar I was aiding Trajkov? Odd.

I appreciate the argument, but I can't agree. The Takers actually have 2 separate quests to kill Ellhrah. The one from Nabb in Vakkiri, and the "initiation to the Takers b/c my Leadership is insufficient" version directly from Gnorrel. So when I killed Ellhrah, I was specifically doing it on behalf of the Takers (via Nabb). Not to mention the other 3-4 Taker-specific quests. I just think it's a flaw in the flow of the game not to weigh those more heavily than what I might have said to some random servile; and keep in mind, I don't believe I was exactly pro-Obeyer up until the point I came into the Takers' area.

Anyway, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

One final (?) addendum, as I've now experienced how getting the do-over thanks to Learned Darian works in practice. Gnorrel's speech was changed as if I had been speaking to serviles in a way the Takers appreciated all along. I was given the chance (Kill Ellhrah) to earn my way in. So far, so good. But also there was dialogue referencing how Eko Blade had spoken up for me. Good, I guess. But I think the game got a little confused about the Kill Ellhrah quest. I believe I got a quest completed notification, lots of xp, the key to the back, etc. But the actual quest didn't clear from my open quest log. Minor, but just noting it.

17 hours ago, Gameluc said:

 

In my run, the canister in Nw room where the mind servant is raises Create Clawbug

Following that logic, the canister in room beside Gyah-ki should be create glaahk. I don’t have a save file to backtrack and verify this one though so please check it if you can
 

You are correct; the SE canister is indeed Create Glaahk.

8 hours ago, Iguana-on-a-stick said:

Problem is that those actions could ALSO be done by a really hard-line shaper who believes all rogues should be purged and all the serviles should die. (cough, agent whatsherface in the south east.)

So I can see why the takers are loath to trust mr. "talks a lot about how all serviles are animals born to serve the Shapers, kills a lot of serviles, and goes around to claims he did it for our sake."

You've mistaken what I've been saying to the serviles. I tried to answer as each faction would appreciate as I made my way through their mini-realms and did quests for them. So, for the Awakened, I answered one way, and for the Obeyers, another. When possible.

I acknowledge that the game is keeping score behind the scenes on what my PC says to the serviles in general, but in this particular case, when I did major quests for the Takers (and Eko Blade alluded to the fact he'd put in a good word for me), the score should swing wildly & decisively back in my favor when I claim I want to join them. They admit they need my help!

Anyway, I've probably said all I can on the subject. The game allows me an escape clause, and I'll take it and move on.