BenS

1 hour ago, Randomizer said:

Leadership of 6 lets you join the Servants without needing a pro-Shaper reputation. If you join you are officially a Servant and Awakened merchants and trainers won't deal with you until you officially leave.

 

You can't join a faction fro the benefits without blocking yourself from other faction benefits. You have to formally leave.

Ah, I misunderstood, thank you. As for formally leaving...say I've gotten what I want from the Servants after joining, and won't miss anything (or much) by formally leaving, is that simply a dialogue option with...Zakary? Or the leader of the next faction I'd want to join, like Learned Pinner?

On 3/29/2024 at 7:52 AM, Mechalibur said:

So I guess my optimization strategy would be:

 

Say pro-servile things. Join the Servants using leadership. Loot the Warrens and buy whatever cheap training you want from Tyallea. When you want to move on to the highest level training, join the Awakened, loot the room by Pinner with the key she gives you and get augmented by Tuldaric. Then stick with them until you've done all the quests that require Takers not to be hostile, go to Darian to change your rep, then join the Barzites and clean house. 

Can you tell us the Leadership check to "join" the Servants w/out officially joining? I never would have thought of this!

Also, will it be obvious as an actual Awakened follower which quests to avoid Takers becoming hostile to you? In case you then want to go to Darian...as you say above.

I continue to learn things I wouldn't have thought on my own, so thank you both for the tips. I had imagined Agent--w/ lowest essence/shaping skills--would want Fire b/c they tend to be lesser essence creations, or maybe Fire for a melee-based Guardian for ranged attack options. But I think I see your rationale for different choices. I am playing my 1st game on Veteran instead of the usual Normal just to get a feel for the game, and probably will continue in that vein w/ maybe a Torment Guardian for last.

The game's starting to get more challenging simply b/c I haven't joined a faction, reached the Loyalist Camp, and thus am a Shaper w/ no tier 3-4 creations. I'll see how far I can push it before breaking down and joining, though I know technically you don't have to join any faction to complete the game.

I'll try to focus more on Fire for my current Shaper, then do Guardian & Magic, Agent & Battle for the next 2 games, to try and complement inherent build strengths. Thanks again.

Well, my 12th l. Shaper has definitely been built and run sub optimally by this analysis. I've pumped Essence Mastery every level, not understanding how little bang for the buck I got at early levels. I'm running currently w/ 3 maxed Cryoas and 1 maxed Energized Vlish--all members of Team Nope. LOL. I love the passive frost dmg the Cryoas have to nearby foes at least.

Slarti, I think your 2nd Roamer comment might be for Drakons, no?

I was probably building to an Everyman shaper instead of focusing on 1 type, thinking my versatility will pay off when I know the foe types in an area. But maybe spreading myself too thin I guess. I will note the Battle shaping type doesn't have much going for it (by your analysis) until 3rd tier, which unless you join a faction early I don't think you'll get access to.

Anyway, this is all helpful info and theory-crafting. I can create new pets if my current squad just can't cut it at a certain point, and fully expect to. Since I plan at least 3 play throughs, maybe I should settle down on 1 shaping type and explore the upper reaches of the others later. Since I'm playing a full Shaper w/ more essence than Guardians or Infiltrators, maybe the high-essence-costing Magic type should be my goal. Though I do like the mix-and-match squad, like I currently have.

Hmm, I must not have come across the Dhagan (?) Defender; maybe in my current, pro-Ro game I will. I think I understand what to look for now vis a vis physical v. magical bonuses for the character, and making sure I pick an appropriate bow--especially if I have and use Whirlwind. My 2nd, melee PC (2h) is using Temptation (magical) and the Ice Bow (magical), and I'm pretty sure his magical bonus > his physical bonus (he's a bit of a Gish-type PC). Later I'll switch to the Warp Spear, assuming my current band survives the Arena combats, and I'll upgrade the Piretical Sword to the oddly-named Cutlass of Radiance (which is 2h) for my staff-wielding mage.

Thanks. 

For the 2nd game in a row, my Prince and 2h weapon user have used the Fool's Shot and Ice Bows. Does that mean, based on the above (D2 for them) formulae, they do less dmg w/ Whirlwind than if they used vanilla bows that output more physical dmg? I mean Fool's Shot is still great for the bleed add-on, and having at least 2 party members be able to apply magic dmg isn't a bad idea, but I'm still curious.

Separate question I keep forgetting to ask: critical hits; how does that dmg calculate? Is it 150% and armor is ignored? I'm trying to figure out what happens sometimes when a PC takes massive dmg and the console text tells me none of my armor was used to soften the blow.

17 hours ago, osnola said:

Yes, I just played a singleton in casual mode and completed all the quests. 

 

I never even thought of a solo run for this game, but thanks for confirming it. I had imagined your starter crew of 3 Havenite companions w/ you but at least on Casual, I guess you don't need them. Cheers.

The Soul Jars are in the room to the W of him; get a decent ranged character straddling the 2 rooms and you can attack the Soul Jars when he summons them, and him as well to your E. That's what I remember doing my last game.

4 hours ago, Mechalibur said:

I think it maxes at 3/6 extra damage to the party at rank 1/2. It's reflected in the damage tooltips.

Oh, those sound pretty decent, thank you.

It would seem to be a purposeful gimping of your party, given how crucial I find some of the 3 provincial cultural abilities to success. But maybe on lower difficulty levels it might be more viable. Probably a "challenge" game after you've finished it more traditionally. Anyway, just curious whether anyone had attempted it and finished the game.

Thank you for the write-up. Do you have any clue what the Haven's Command bonuses would be like? I had 2 skill ranks of that in my 1st game, but w/ no way of knowing if those were skill ranks better placed elsewhere. I'm on my 2nd game and...15th level I think...just put 1 skill rank there. But skill ranks are quite limited w/ the 20-level cap, and I'd like to make more informed choices about placements for them.

On 9/17/2022 at 4:32 AM, Randomizer said:

The ones that sink into the floor after taking damage can be stunned and slowed and that can sometimes give you the to finish them off.

I did not know it was possible to kill them and have them not return endlessly to beat up on you, so I'll at least try this in my 2nd game, now underway. Thanks for the tip; I found this dungeon one of the most difficult in the game in some ways.

17 minutes ago, krock said:

Found him.  Now I'm looking for Erud Ardont who may be in Wyrm's Teeth.  I've cleared it out except the stupid gem puzzle - a silly blank board.

 

A little help please...

Click on only the following 4 tiles: 

9 hours ago, Magenta said:

Me too, but it will probably be YEARS. I'm going to try Avernum next - I've never played it. Maybe it will keep me busy until #2 comes out.

Oh, I love that series too. But it's different from GF, so manage your expectations. It's a classic 4-person party. The 1st 3 of 6 have been remade, and I've played them all.

To be fair, I had the meta-advantage of having played the game 3x before I attempted Torment, and even then there were some tough times ahead. I talked about it in more detail in a thread I started about Torment. I give a lot of credit to Jeff and the beta-testers for ensuring the various difficulty levels were indeed balanced and offered their own levels of satisfaction upon completion.

I fully expect a multi-game run w/ the future remakes. I can hardly wait.

I also loved this remake, playing it 4x--a record for me for any SW game. I also completed a Torment run for the 1st time. I'd say this all bodes well for the future remakes.

37 minutes ago, googoogjoob said:

There's never been a meal-related quest in any Geneforge... There's one in Avernum 4, and then obviously meal is very important in Avernum 6, but meal has always just been a minorly-valuable loot item in the Geneforge games. The only standing subquests of that type in Geneforge 1 are for Shaper records and Shaper equipment, and both are retained in the remake.

I sit corrected. I guess I conflated the 2 series.

Like you, my last SW game was Queen's Wish, but I had forgotten about those stone blocks as resources. My problem was an entire 1st run collecting sacks of meal, waiting for the merchant/quest-giver who wanted them...and realizing that had been taken out of the remake. D'oh!

1 hour ago, stilltim said:

I'm sure I'll appreciate whatever enhancements Jeff makes. But, the original GF2 had Rothgrowths, Draykons and Eyebeasts. Looking forward to dreading the sight of all three of them again.

I cannot wait to see those again. Though one nice thing about this remake was the ability to get top (3rd) tier creations well before the end of the game. I always struggled w/ the original games to get the top (4th?) tier creations...and then the game was essentially over. Or that's how I remember it these days. If so, I hope that will be addressed in the further remakes.

I think I used them mainly to clear the Guarded Docks, as a Shaper on Normal (so, no friendly fire). I believe I had pairs of Cockatrices, Cryodrayks, and Ur-Glaahks so I could enjoy a big ol' brawl. Fun times. But I only played a Shaper 1x; the next 3 games were as Guardians & Agents so no, didn't use them.

I love playing Jeff's games, true. I hate that I have to wait 1-2 years for the next one, true. Huh, guess you were right about the love/hate thing.

I don't know how the mechanics of a Hydra would play out, but I'd love if that was the "new" creation for a future GF remake. Whether or not that meant a KS stretch goal.

Maybe higher levels could increase the # of heads/attacks?! And to distinguish it from the highly magical Cockatrice, it would be hardier (inherent resistances) and deal more straightforward dmg. Maybe even have an upgraded version like Fyoras < Cryoas 🙂

Wow, the things we do for 1 xp point. I did not know about the replenishing spawns, though the ghosts makes some sense, and at the time I was there, definitely gave out more than 1 xp pt!

3 hours ago, Sheer_Falacy said:

It's a bit harder to call that a Trakovite when you can talk to Trajkov with all of his creations and cannister use and magic.  His legacy hasn't had a chance to get super confused yet!

7 hours ago, kuo said:

Wands and crystals are fair game...I'm not that crazy, I'm just roleplaying a Trakovite!

I'm guessing in Avernum (forget #) you got the medal for joining the Anama by never casting...what was it, wizardly spells? Anyway, I don't think you'll have a huge stash of wands & crystals at the end of the game like I did!

3 minutes ago, kuo said:

No canisters, no magic! I've found a highly efficient tactic is one point in melee weapons early to wield a steel sword, and from there it's all missile and agility. 

I just popped in for a moment and here you are again. No...magic...(starts to shake uncontrollably)...are you saying you will not cast any spells, use any wands, etc.? I could not have survived the bulk of the early levels w/out Daze, for example. I had intended to go heavy Missile W-s but there are so many damn leapers that I felt I needed parity for a while w/ Melee W-s. All that said, you seem to have a clear idea of what will work for your build & run, and I'm eager to hear how it all turns out. Best of luck!