BenS

@Randomizer ooh, I clearly missed that as a Shaper, though it sounds like a good goal conceivably for my future Agent.

@Hyperion703 Yes, I'd agree the Spectral Cleaver gets you a lot for minimal investment (potentially none) in Melee W-s. Did you use the Living Knife for your Battle creations? Seems like a nice boost. Also, are you playing Agent + Battle creations? Solo Agent? Which difficulty? I'm tempted to play a Normal Agent just to avoid friendly fire, which I've seen enough of as a Veteran Shaper and Torment Guardian. I will hope to pump Essence Shield as well as an Agent. I think those rare Armor pods only give you 20 pts of Protection, which is nothing, but maybe I've misunderstood them.

Apologies to the OP for the thread jack.

1 hour ago, Hyperion703 said:

Imo, there's really only one. And it's not acquired until at least midway through the game, generally later iirc. Every other blade that might be helpful (at best, none blew me away) had martial weapon minimums of like 3 or 4. Agents can't afford to spend points on weapon skills when there are such yummy magic skills to get on the cheap. And I'm not about to blow six or seven skill points for just +10% evasion or +10% armor or whatevs. 

 

If I would be critical of the game, there just aren't enough accessory/item options. At least for agents. Come to think of it, I might make a separate thread about it. 

Hmm. I don't have access to the scripts but according to my notes from my Shaper run...let's see what we find when looking for Agent-friendly weapons...

Charmed Falchion--that +2 Battle Magic is sweet...but 7 Melee Training is probably unrealistic for an Agent, I agree

Empathy Blade--only Melee Tr. 1, but you give up -1 Str/Agility for +10% to creation haste chance & riposte; might be decent I suppose, if only for creations

Essence Eater--for Melee Tr. 4, you get +1 Agility & Evasion, and do physical & energy dmg; maybe this is the weapon you're referring to?

Living Knife--no Melee Tr. requirement? You get +2 to creation Str & Agility; this seems decent to have in hand, right?

Shielding Knife--Melee Tr. 3 gets you +7% physical armor but more importantly, +15% chance to evade attacks; not bad?

Singing Rapier--Melee Tr. 5 gets you +2 Q. Action & Evasion; maybe worthwhile if it's become expensive to raise further levels of those?

Spectral Cleaver--Melee Tr. 2 gets you a very nice +2 Mental Magic, +20% to blessings/curses you cause

IDK; there's a few decent choices there it seems.

A very topical thread, as I'm running a Torment Guardian now w/ the Purifying Blade, and had wondered about some of the other decent swords in the game. I might play around w/ some of the others when I get them just for the experience of it. Fun is fun, after all.

There are also some decent swords for Agents I note, though those will have to wait for my next run.

I personally would not waste any skill points in Stealth unless you're specifically going for a Pacifist run (achievement/medal). Skill points are precious enough as they are. But if you prefer putting Stealth on your PC--and I'm not sure how it works mechanics-wise--from a RP perspective...more power to you.

I don't think we have the option of buying back something we've sold, sorry.

I don't believe you can recruit Tsuenami, but you can get decent xp w/ Leadership to soothe her (?). Nor could you recruit that early Fyora.

As for buying the game on Steam--which I hope you do--I don't actually know whether you have to start over or not.

4 hours ago, alhoon said:

Well, I understand that. But the fight is tough for level 3. The Crystal cave will also be absolutely brutal on you. Theoretically, you can make it, but it won't be easy. Also, did you have Zora with you? The battle roar is great. 

I think you need 4 Leadership to get Zora's help, which is well worth it for all the zones she will stick w/ you! Just don't let her die obviously.

I don't believe so.

2 hours ago, mikeprichard said:

To charge and thus improve each artifact (Frosted Annulet (takes 1 charge), Feisty Slap Gloves (takes up to 3 or 4 charges), Helix Ring (takes up to 3 charges, with each charge available after you kill certain prominent NPCs with the ring in your inventory)), you need to have one sample each of mandrake and infernal residue when using an anvil.

This is super helpful, thank you. I managed to play through a Shaper game w/out the Helix Ring. Either I missed it or sold it stupidly. About to start either a Guardian or Agent game shortly, and I'll be sure to grab it/hang on to it this time, even though you mentioned it was probably better for a pure Shaper.

I haven't played w/ a Drakon/Ur-Drakon in this current game beyond doing the min/max stats I provided above, so you already have more in-game xp w/ them than I do. You will soon decide how and when to upgrade them I'm sure. If I do another Shaper run, I will try Fire & Battle; for my Guardian run I will do Fire; for my Agent run, Battle.

As for why I run w/ maxed out Tier 4s...rather than w/ greater #s...partly b/c in past GF games I went w/ quantity > quality, and it's fun to try something new. Also, while an overcharged Rotghroth can be awesome offensively, the Rotdhizons will be higher level and last longer thanks to their dmg resistant upgrade (and top them off w/ Regenerate and Essence Shield and Protection and...) and they're the tankiest thing you will ever create. 

If you decide to just keep w/ Fire Shaping and ignore Battle/Magic, may I suggest you also become a halfway decent mage? Not so much for Battle magic, but for Blessing Magic. Also don't ignore Healing Craft, as you're Strong in that. Unless you're fine w/ consumables but those only go so far; you can't reproduce everything you can w/ actual magic.

I'll try to help. I'm playing a Shaper, near end-game so I don't remember where I was at for 9th level exactly but...

Based on your fondness for your Fyora and the 2 Drayks...you might as well get a Drakon b/c then you are just focusing on 1 (Fire) Shaping school. For the time being. So when you put more pts into it, literally all your creations would get boosts.

I thought I'd go Fire Shaping mainly for my current Shaper, as that's what I typically do. But. I decided to try both (the improved) Battle Shaping as well as Magic Shaping. At 20th l. have (w/ gear/canisters) 11 pts in Battle & Magic Shaping, and (w/ gear/canisters) 16 pts in Essence Mastery. I run w/ 2 maxed out Rotdhizons & 2 maxed out Gazers, w/ essence (my total essence is 378) to spare on spells quite easily. The point of this? The Battle creations are great tanks and the Magic creations are great nukes. It's been a solid strategy for me.

For you, I suspect the Drakons are a middle ground you can use if you really do go all in on Fire Shaping. They're not as tanky as Rots, but certainly more than the Gazers, and thematically fit your team.

If you want to do some future planning, here's the minimum/maximum essence needed for Tier 4 creations. Maybe you'll want to get Battle Shaping up there as well, IDK (notice the modest essence requirements compared to the other Tier 4s).

Drakons (24/87); Ur-Drakons (36/126); base levels 10 & 13 respectively

Rotghroths (18/63); Rotdhizons (26/89); base levels 10 & 12 respectively

Gazers (22/76); Eyebeasts (32/113); base levels 10 & 13 respectively

Good luck.

Do we know why the Drayk/Cryodrayk sprites are (mostly) so tiny in this game? For a while I thought I was just meeting the runts of the litter, or maybe it was a design choice. Maybe even a problem w/ my computer. But if you look at the 4 Cryodrayks at the end of the entrance hall in The Radiant College...you'll see at least 1 that appears noticeably smaller to the naked eye compared w/ others. Various such single encounters in the game appear to me to be the same issue. Weren't these creatures taller/stockier in prior games? When your Fyora towers over one and you can reach down to pet it on the head, the awe-level when seeing a drayk...lessens. I'll admit it's changed my normal Shaper preferences, which are Fire Shaping.

If this needs to be calved off into another discussion, feel free.

2 hours ago, alhoon said:

😢I sold it...

Steel javelins do more damage than my firebolt. And I find lots and lots of "2 missile!" batons and I have a couple of Guardian Weapon Shapings that should be usable with missile weapons. 

There's at least 1 more Roamertooth Band in the game, fyi, though by the time you get it, you might already have better options for your PC.

Per the Steam boards, there's a bug w/ the Feisty Slap Gloves, that should be fixed in a few weeks w/ 1.0.2. I believe weapon shaping skills don't work w/ it.

I have fond memories of the FSG from Mutagen. I'll be curious to check it out when I play a Guardian.

I don't know if I got lucky, but...I beat the 4th group at 17th level (veteran Shaper w/ 2 mostly maxed Gazers and 2 mostly maxed Rotdhizons), and then still mostly buffed, after a quick save, I wandered into the 5th area to see how quickly I would get spanked. It only took me 2 tries to win! I focused on the 4 Ur-Glaahks and then wore down the Experimental Gamma. I was fighting the group near the sign into the area; maybe that limited its options, IDK, but it focused on the Rotdhizons, which had Hardness, Regeneration from me, plus healing etc. The maxed Pure Fanged Bracelet is of less utility (I think) to my Shaper run, but the ultra-rare P.E. at the end meant I could get the Infiltrator Ring, which should be quite helpful on occasion.

3 minutes ago, Mechalibur said:

Canister use doesn't matter for the achievement. Just don't do anything like kill the leader of the faction you want to join.

Thanks. I just came back to edit my post b/c it was in error anyway.

I see that various (4) faction achievements/medals require a "good ending". That suggests not just finishing the game allied w/ 1 of them. Should I be worried that I've, ah, over-indulged in canisters during my 1st run, which I'm not done w/ yet? I know the non-aligned ending text...would go bad for me, but that's something different than an achievement/medal.

Thanks for posting that. I'm always interested in builds people found worked for them, especially at higher levels of difficulty, and the gear they used to finish the game. Good luck finishing the last areas and I hope your next playthroughs are equally fun.

1 hour ago, Mechalibur said:

 

Actually the Servants are the exception, you can leave all the factions by talking to their leader, except Zakary for some odd reason. The Takers, naturally, all turn hostile if you try to do so, though.

Hmm. So I could join the Awakened early, get much out of them w/out final faction quests; quit; then join the Barzites...same pattern; then simply choose the Servants or Takers for my final "real" faction?

1 hour ago, Randomizer said:

Leadership of 6 lets you join the Servants without needing a pro-Shaper reputation. If you join you are officially a Servant and Awakened merchants and trainers won't deal with you until you officially leave.

 

You can't join a faction fro the benefits without blocking yourself from other faction benefits. You have to formally leave.

Ah, I misunderstood, thank you. As for formally leaving...say I've gotten what I want from the Servants after joining, and won't miss anything (or much) by formally leaving, is that simply a dialogue option with...Zakary? Or the leader of the next faction I'd want to join, like Learned Pinner?

On 3/29/2024 at 7:52 AM, Mechalibur said:

So I guess my optimization strategy would be:

 

Say pro-servile things. Join the Servants using leadership. Loot the Warrens and buy whatever cheap training you want from Tyallea. When you want to move on to the highest level training, join the Awakened, loot the room by Pinner with the key she gives you and get augmented by Tuldaric. Then stick with them until you've done all the quests that require Takers not to be hostile, go to Darian to change your rep, then join the Barzites and clean house. 

Can you tell us the Leadership check to "join" the Servants w/out officially joining? I never would have thought of this!

Also, will it be obvious as an actual Awakened follower which quests to avoid Takers becoming hostile to you? In case you then want to go to Darian...as you say above.

I continue to learn things I wouldn't have thought on my own, so thank you both for the tips. I had imagined Agent--w/ lowest essence/shaping skills--would want Fire b/c they tend to be lesser essence creations, or maybe Fire for a melee-based Guardian for ranged attack options. But I think I see your rationale for different choices. I am playing my 1st game on Veteran instead of the usual Normal just to get a feel for the game, and probably will continue in that vein w/ maybe a Torment Guardian for last.

The game's starting to get more challenging simply b/c I haven't joined a faction, reached the Loyalist Camp, and thus am a Shaper w/ no tier 3-4 creations. I'll see how far I can push it before breaking down and joining, though I know technically you don't have to join any faction to complete the game.

I'll try to focus more on Fire for my current Shaper, then do Guardian & Magic, Agent & Battle for the next 2 games, to try and complement inherent build strengths. Thanks again.

Well, my 12th l. Shaper has definitely been built and run sub optimally by this analysis. I've pumped Essence Mastery every level, not understanding how little bang for the buck I got at early levels. I'm running currently w/ 3 maxed Cryoas and 1 maxed Energized Vlish--all members of Team Nope. LOL. I love the passive frost dmg the Cryoas have to nearby foes at least.

Slarti, I think your 2nd Roamer comment might be for Drakons, no?

I was probably building to an Everyman shaper instead of focusing on 1 type, thinking my versatility will pay off when I know the foe types in an area. But maybe spreading myself too thin I guess. I will note the Battle shaping type doesn't have much going for it (by your analysis) until 3rd tier, which unless you join a faction early I don't think you'll get access to.

Anyway, this is all helpful info and theory-crafting. I can create new pets if my current squad just can't cut it at a certain point, and fully expect to. Since I plan at least 3 play throughs, maybe I should settle down on 1 shaping type and explore the upper reaches of the others later. Since I'm playing a full Shaper w/ more essence than Guardians or Infiltrators, maybe the high-essence-costing Magic type should be my goal. Though I do like the mix-and-match squad, like I currently have.

Hmm, I must not have come across the Dhagan (?) Defender; maybe in my current, pro-Ro game I will. I think I understand what to look for now vis a vis physical v. magical bonuses for the character, and making sure I pick an appropriate bow--especially if I have and use Whirlwind. My 2nd, melee PC (2h) is using Temptation (magical) and the Ice Bow (magical), and I'm pretty sure his magical bonus > his physical bonus (he's a bit of a Gish-type PC). Later I'll switch to the Warp Spear, assuming my current band survives the Arena combats, and I'll upgrade the Piretical Sword to the oddly-named Cutlass of Radiance (which is 2h) for my staff-wielding mage.

Thanks.